Gav Thorpe as a BL Writer - Honest Review Please?

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

  But this is the person who wrote Inquisitor, 

A lot of the core rules for Inquisitor were based on the old Confrontation rules, way before Gavs time. As for the fluff, I must admit I cant fault Gav for that. 

[DarkChaplain]

2 - He tends to ignore other people's works. This is particularly clear with his pre heresy Dark Angels. To make one example: in "Descent of Angels" by Scanlon it is Luther who suggests the name "Dark Angels" for the First Legion, quoting an old calibanite poem. In "Angels of Caliban" by Thorpe, however, Luther himself muses about why the Emperor chose that name for the Legion. 

In a blog post about "Azrael" he candidly admitted that he chose a different timeline to set the story in just because he couldn't be bothered to read other people's works involving Azrael in 999M41.

Sounds a little lazy to me.

 

I think that name-retcon has more to do with ForgeWorld than Gav. Alan Bligh had a lot of input and they tried to make AoC go in line with the new / upcoming Dark Angels lore from FW. The name thing is a damn shame but like a few other things unlikely something that Gav came up with and changed willy nilly.

 

I agree though that he does have a tendency to put other authors' work aside unless it directly relates to his subject matter. But so does basically everybody else in tie in fiction of this scope. Graham McNeill recently stated that he hadn't yet read Ahriman: Unchanged and according to some comments that was noticeably jarring in The Crimson King. A lot of authors used to get the bare essentials as research material as well. I remember something by Mike Lee about just getting a few photocopied Armybook pages usually, back in the day. It probably is a lot less awkward now thanks to ebooks costing them nil, but the question still is how much of it is considered relevant reading. Reading multiple, entire 400 page novels to research what comes down to a 250 or so page novel of your own can be pretty overkill, especially when it isn't something like Guy Haley's Dante, which actually has a massive amount of information and characterisation for the character.

 

About Azrael specifically, I can't really remember many stories he even featured in beyond Gav's. He was in Pandorax and the prequel audio drama Trials of Azrael. Beyond that, maybe a cameo in an audio drama or novella by CZ Dunn? There were also a few panels in the Titan Comics 40k series (though that one was pretty... odd?). Even Lexicanum doesn't even list those (though quality there has gone all the way down in recent years). Gav's shaped so much of the Dark Angels and their characters since Angels of Darkness and his Codex work, I honestly don't blame him for skipping relatively minor appearances.

[Allart01]

 

I think that name-retcon has more to do with ForgeWorld than Gav. Alan Bligh had a lot of input and they tried to make AoC go in line with the new / upcoming Dark Angels lore from FW. The name thing is a damn shame but like a few other things unlikely something that Gav came up with and changed willy nilly.

 

May well be, though the original First Legion went by other names according to AoC - the Angels of Death, or simply the First.

We'll have to wait for Angelus, though I wouldn't be surprised if they just went for the most recent fluff.

 

I agree though that he does have a tendency to put other authors' work aside unless it directly relates to his subject matter. But so does basically everybody else in tie in fiction of this scope. Graham McNeill recently stated that he hadn't yet read Ahriman: Unchanged and according to some comments that was noticeably jarring in The Crimson King. A lot of authors used to get the bare essentials as research material as well. I remember something by Mike Lee about just getting a few photocopied Armybook pages usually, back in the day. It probably is a lot less awkward now thanks to ebooks costing them nil, but the question still is how much of it is considered relevant reading. Reading multiple, entire 400 page novels to research what comes down to a 250 or so page novel of your own can be pretty overkill, especially when it isn't something like Guy Haley's Dante, which actually has a massive amount of information and characterisation for the character.

 

Maybe I notice it more with Gav because i tend to intensively read ALL about my favourite factions, multiple times. 

Two wrongs don't make a right, though... I know that writing in such a vast, shared setting is hard, but doing some research and keeping up with other authors should be part of the job, I think... not to mention the role of the overall editor.

 

About Azrael specifically, I can't really remember many stories he even featured in beyond Gav's. He was in Pandorax and the prequel audio drama Trials of Azrael. Beyond that, maybe a cameo in an audio drama or novella by CZ Dunn? There were also a few panels in the Titan Comics 40k series (though that one was pretty... odd?). Even Lexicanum doesn't even list those (though quality there has gone all the way down in recent years). Gav's shaped so much of the Dark Angels and their characters since Angels of Darkness and his Codex work, I honestly don't blame him for skipping relatively minor appearances.

 

Makes sense; the opposite side of the coin is that reading the few pages required to make the sources match without contradictions wouldn't have been such a big effort.

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by The_Bloody

[Pariah32]

I really like Gav thorpes works though some have been very average. His fantasy books for Time of Legends were epic!

 

In terms of Horus Heresy 'The angels of Caliban'  is one of my favourite HH books out there today for me! I liked the Corax books but they were know where near as good as his most recent one 'Weregeld' which for me was a great read. Most of the flak that received was mainly from the disruptive timeline in regards to the wolves.

 

In all honesty in regards to the question of this post, try one of his cheaper books, see how you get on with it and if you like it, take the plunge.

 

For the record I have ordered every special edition of the Primarch's books and every one of them was worth it 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Pariah32

[bluntblade]

Raven's Flight rather killed my interest.

[Gen.Steiner]

Try his Last Chancers stuff. That's really good. Cage is a real piece of work, and Colonel Schaeffer is the baddest of asses in the Imperial Badass Guard.

[bluntblade]

The trouble is, there's so much stuff like Know No Fear, Aurelian, Praetorian of Dorn, all the Meduson stuff, Tallarn, and whole realms of non-BL stuff I'm keener to read. It's going to be a long time before I get round to Thorpe's material.

[Gen.Steiner]

Well, that's fair I guess. I've given up trying to keep pace with the Horus Heresy stuff, the last one I read was, er, The Outcast Dead.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If nothing else good for a different perspective on Lorgar vs ADB .

[A D-B]

If nothing else good for a different perspective on Lorgar vs ADB .

 

+1.

 

I respect any author's intended arc, but I also prefer iconic characters to be written by several authors. Everyone approaches the material on a different path and sees it through a different lens. That's more important to me in 40K (and 30K) fiction than anything else.

[Loesh]

Graham Mcneil's Perturabo is best Perturabo in my eyes, shame we don't see him more.

[veterannoob]

As many authors bring up time and time again in interviews and posts, Gav knows his stuff. Hell, of those still working there I bet he's one of the main repositories of lore. I like his stuff; every author has ups and downs for readers and sometimes you go back and like it or hate it in a second pass. For this series, seeing how strong its picked up momentum the past 3 books, I've got a great feeling about it. I like authors branching out and mixing up the primarch assignments. And as Gav does well, lil' nuggets of lore and connecting of the dots are sure to be embedded in there for an "aha! moment."

[Xenith]

Good at non ASTARTES and fantasy.

 

Dreary for marines. Angels of darkness was the exception, but I think that was more for the reveal at the end than the actual content, which Gav has has admitted it was a last minute what the hell, why not kind of thing.

 

Thorpe has never made me want to start an army based on his work, in the same way that Abnett, McNeill and ADB have.

 

How many night lords armies exist because of ADB? How many Luna Wolves or Alpha Legion because of Abnett? How many raven guard because of Thorpe?

 

Gav is great at story, not so great at showing how cool and awesome the faction are.

[DarkChaplain]

So Gav just won the David Gemmell Legend Award for his Age of Sigmar novel Warbeast. I'm very surprised here and happy for him. I didn't expect it and to be truthful I was rooting and voting for John Gwynne's Wrath (my favorite novel of 2016, no less). But... it would appear many people really like Gav's writing, enough to outbid many highly promoted novels from last year at a pretty mainstream award. It is easy to forget that criticisms like on here aren't usually a majority voice.

Edited July 16, 2017 by DarkChaplain

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 How many raven guard because of Thorpe?

 

I've actually stopped playing my RG because of Gav. 

 

The utter crapness of the Corax HH novels killed much of my enthusiasm for them.

[Sith’ari]

So Gav just won the David Gemmell Legend Award for his Age of Sigmar novel Warbeast. I'm very surprised here and happy for him. I didn't expect it and to be truthful I was rooting and voting for John Gwynne's Ruin (my favorite novel of 2016, no less). But... it would appear many people really like Gav's writing, enough to outbid many highly promoted novels from last year at a pretty mainstream award. It is easy to forget that criticisms like on here aren't usually a majority voice.

I'm really glad about that! Warbeast is a fun read and really made me love Stormcast after the endless "hurr durr Sigmarinez" that was spread about online.

 

Regarding the rest of Gavs work, although I despise his Dark Angel novels, I'm really into his path of the Eldar and WFB stories.

[HeritorA]

A honest personal humble opinion - Gav Thorpe is better than Kyme and Kelly - but had so/so stuff with rare jewels from time to time.

[Gen.Steiner]

Well, congratulations to Gav! That's a pretty prestigious award to pick up.

Mind you, winning an award doesn't mean that your stuff is necessarily good, because as with all art, beauty is in the eye of the beholder etc. Still. I think he's definitely better and more capable than many here seem to.

[Mellow]

Who votes for these awards? What was the total number of votes versus the number he got and the others got?

 

It would be interesting to see that kind of information along with who the voters were. Their ages. Whether they were fans of warhammer before the vote etc.

[helterskelter]

His fantasy is better than his sci fi (in my opinion) for some reason. Makes no sense why it should be different but that's more or less what I've found

[Sandlemad]

Gav has some genuinely brilliant stuff to his name - the tone of the background in the Inquisitor RPG has yet to be surpassed, even by the FFG books - but I wouldn't be in a hurry to pick up any of his 30k/40k books, as a lot of his prose is just sort of... dull and flat. Not the worst but not great, particularly when he's writing space marines. The opprobrium he attracts is unwarranted but his imperial novels are not some of the better works in the BL back catalogue.

 

His blogging and fan interactions are indeed very friendly and professional but they also show that he puts a lot of thought and care into his background and writing. Just doesn't seem to always come across in the final work.

 

His eldar stuff is good and I second the comments about his fantasy writing, particularly on the dwarfs. His work on the 6th ed. dwarf army book with the in-character snippets complaining about the state of dwarfs these days are the best stuff written about dwarfs in WHFB. Well done to him on the Gemmell award anyway.

[HeritorA]

His fantasy is better than his sci fi (in my opinion) for some reason. Makes no sense why it should be different but that's more or less what I've found

Indeed - his elf stuff is much better than his W40K RG or DA. Angels of Darkness is a sole exception.

[Gen.Steiner]

Perhaps the issue is in his characterisation of Space Marines, then? As his Last Chancers books are really good!

[Corswain]

Man, I completely forgot about the Last Chancers, I loved those books. It's probably what got me into 40K.

 

Congrats to Gav Thorpe for winning the Gemmell Award. Impressive stuff!

[HeritorA]

Man, I completely forgot about the Last Chancers, I loved those books. It's probably what got me into 40K.

 

Congrats to Gav Thorpe for winning the Gemmell Award. Impressive stuff!

For their time Last Chancers wer almost pure gold. Now, with time - you could chuckle while reading it.

 

Congrats to Gav on a win anyway. I do not appreciate a lot of what he wrote - but he always struggle to be better, write jewels from time to time - so he could totally receive our respect. It is deserved. (And he is better than Kyme )