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Unit of the Week: Dreadnoughts

Unit of the Week 8th 8th Edition Space Marines

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#326
Helycon

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No.

You are wrong.

There was something about that in the oficial source.

You can use librarian on bike because there is No such unit in the codex, So you can use entry fron index And its valid.

But in the codex there is unit called dreadnought So it teplace the entry from the index.

No.

 

I am not.

 

https://www.warhamme...omepage-post-2/

 

There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?

While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.

Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).

They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

 

I hope that settles that debate once and for all. 

 

If the model has the option in the Index, it's still valid now. 


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#327
Firepower

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Pretty sure this debate has been "settled" like 8 times in this thread alone. :P

Anyway, how do vanilla dread options stack up against their equivalent elsewhere?

Suffer not the xeno psyker kitten, as to it the souls of man are but balls of yarn and jingly amusements!
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#328
Bremon

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Not sure I understand your question Firepower. I assembled a venerable kit today and the amount of customization compared to the standard kit is amazing. If it had a missile launcher in it (which makes a good basis for TLAC) there wouldn’t be much of a purpose to the standard kit at all. Plus, the dread kits are much more enjoyable to assemble than Preds imo.

#329
Firepower

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I mean how our available dreads stack up as units versus dreads available to non-C:SM armies (or equivalents, like Helbrutes).  :teehee:


Suffer not the xeno psyker kitten, as to it the souls of man are but balls of yarn and jingly amusements!
Brother Chaplain Kage: "I don't think anything makes Firepower happy."
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#330
Captain Idaho

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Good question.

Our standard Dreadnoughts are distinctly average but a useful support for a defensive formation. However, seeing Contemptors and Venerable Dreadnoughts are only a few points more it's a tough sell. However, there is something to be said about shaving points off of a list so they can be good enough especially with Wisdom of the Ancients and a Lieutenant and some other shooty units.

Death Guard Hellbrutes are powerful because they don't suffer move and fire penalties. It gets them up close to benefit from their combat potential (hitting hard targets for 3 damage a pop) whilst maintaining firepower potential. Our Venerables and Contemptors outclass then though. By quite a bit.

Standard Hellbrutes are pretty much the same as our standard Dreads except they sometimes shoot again. However, they suffer from the same efficiency problems when advancing and if you're hanging back with them they aren't as good as other shooty choices. Our Dreadnoughts benefit from Lieutenants and our Venerables and Contemptors out class these traitors greatly.

Wraithlords... well Eldar cheese eh. But aside from Ynnari shenanigans they actually have 1 less attack and aren't quite as powerful up close because of it. They can take 2 heavy weapons but once you move they're not as good and limit the cost effectiveness of being up close anyway. Their 2 wounds extra are nice though and as a shooting platform they are superior to our standard Dreads but to get the most out of them compared to Warwalkers etc you need to get up close too. So overall I think we outclass Wraithlords on the whole. Up close certainly we can kill a Wraithlord fairly, especially with a few shots on the way in.

What else do we compete with? Tomb Stalkers... a useful utility unit that helps other armies nicely. It's got a reasonable heavy weapon choice and anything it hits will likely be hit by the rest of the Necrons. There is a problem as they potentially are wasting their shot so something else can finish the target but over all it's a useful ability. Our Dreads out class them in combat though. Our firepower can be superior too as they only have a single heavy weapon.

Ork Dreadnoughts and Killer Kans... individually we greatly out class these contraptions but in numbers they are quite the threat. The odd rogue rokkit hitting is frustrating for 3 points of damage. Our Dreadnoughts should be able to mulch that though.

Anything I've missed? Dark Eldar Chronus and Talos I guess but they're very soft and slow for DE armies so I'm not worried about dealing with them.
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#331
Firepower

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Very comprehensive. :tu:

 

What about Blood Angel and Wolf dreads?


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#332
Damo1701

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No.

You are wrong.

There was something about that in the oficial source.

You can use librarian on bike because there is No such unit in the codex, So you can use entry fron index And its valid.

But in the codex there is unit called dreadnought So it teplace the entry from the index.


Incorrect.

Games Workshop, as has been stated repeatedly, have said that if options are missing from the codex, but are available in the index, use those options, but the codec for points.

Therefore, pretty much everything from the last 5 editions should be valid if there is either a codex/index/Forge World listing for it.

As long as all points come from the codex.
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#333
Aegir_Einarsson

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Ok my bad, although my statement was incorrect I'm bery happy that i can use my venerable TLAC Dread:)

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#334
Ebon Hand

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I've been stubbornly trying to use the regular Dread but I've come to the same conclusion as Captain Idaho. I'm a stubborn points shaver, but the movement penalty is a hindrance and really encourages you to park in a position and shoot/ act as a counter charge unit.

Seeing as I play an aggressive army, I'm ready to start trying out those Venerable dreads.

The experience I've had with fighting Helbrutes is that their movement advantage really makes them much better as an assault threat, especially with warp time. That crazed table can make them unpredictable as well and a lucky crazed result can wreak havoc in a way no other dread could. Handle them with care and don't underestimate them.
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#335
Bremon

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Salamanders make a case for standard dreads instead of venerable, but if you want them to be mobile then even Salamanders benefit from the extra 20 points spent. Otherwise, I’m going to experiment with 3x heavy flamer and close combat weapon on a standard dread. I don’t have the points to benefit from the FNP but I think it would be humorous to have a few lucky rolls on this behemoth rampaging around with a ton of flame. Going to use Ultras with that set up for the fall back and triple roast. We’ll see how it goes. The minis are enough fun to assemble and have enough aesthetic options that I might end up with a few more yet.

#336
Prot

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I've been stubbornly trying to use the regular Dread but I've come to the same conclusion as Captain Idaho. I'm a stubborn points shaver, but the movement penalty is a hindrance and really encourages you to park in a position and shoot/ act as a counter charge unit.
Seeing as I play an aggressive army, I'm ready to start trying out those Venerable dreads.
The experience I've had with fighting Helbrutes is that their movement advantage really makes them much better as an assault threat, especially with warp time. That crazed table can make them unpredictable as well and a lucky crazed result can wreak havoc in a way no other dread could. Handle them with care and don't underestimate them.


I agree but the true value here in my opinion is Deathguard Helbrutes. Their Plasma Cannon rule is silly but otherwise these things are a real, mobile threat and although not technically a Dread/ Helbrute, the Foetid Blaotdrone is up there in threat and range too.

I think loyalists have a fun option in the Redemptor and a strong threat in the Contemptor/ Venerable. And a discount firebase that works with Auras in the Las/missile Dread. I still use my HOG Redemptors though with strategum auras for fun though.

#337
Ishagu

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Yeah, DG Hellbrutes are excellent. Probably superior to all of our Dreads with a few exceptions that serve different purposes.

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