Unit of the Week: Dreadnoughts

[Aziras]

I have my dreads build up as TLLC+ML and TLAC+ML. I like my big metal (or is that plasteel?) boxes as gunplatforms. My whole army is not very CC-focused so perhaps that is why they work well.

 

The missile launchers are working for now as armies are still experimenting with lots of different units. Depending on how the meta settles they may be a waste. They do take some dedicated CC units to rip apart, so if nothing else they tie up one of those units for a turn.

 

I have noticed that they blow up pretty easily though. They are lascannon magnets and if you get 4-5 of them pointing your way they can be in for a rough ride. For that reason I have tried to hide them during deployment even if it cost a little efficiency on shooting. Simply to not have them pop in an alpha strike.

 

In larger armies, with more juicy targets, I have a feeling they can do quite a bit of damage before they are addressed. It is all about how they can kill 150'ish points worth of enemies. If you can only shoot them at fodder they will almost certainly not win you the game.

[Gen.Steiner]

Assault cannon/autocannon just feels ... clunky and rules-exploit-y to me. I'm much more keen on the quad autocannon build. Looks cooler, hits harder, better range, moar dakka.

[Captain Idaho]

I don't think an assault cannon and autocannon be a rules exploit? That would mean it is overpowered and it clearly isn't considering folk here dispute it's rating compared to double twin Autocannons. Expecially if you think autocannons are superior.

 

The rules for an autocannon mean it has the same performance against heavy infantry as assault cannons. Multi wounds models such as Terminators obviously dislike autocannons more than assault cannons, but again I wouldn't want to fire at Terminators with only a -1 AP.

 

Twin Autocannons are definitely brilliant against lighter vehicles, bikes, Ork Nobz and Tyranid Warriors.

 

It's a choice based upon intended use. You going to be splatting Primaris Marines and light vehicles? Twin Autocannons. You going to be fighting Orks, Aspect Warriors or Marines? Assault cannon and twin Autocannons.

 

Which is why I'm loving the game right now. Almost nothing seems massively overpowered in comparison to other choices.

 

(Do we need a discussion on what is heavy infantry? I'm doubting my old definitions now! Space Marines used to be, but with Wraith Guard, Terminators and now Primaris Marines, the divide is quite high. The question then would be - what are Marines if not heavy infantry?)

[Gen.Steiner]

No, it's just that the idea of sticking a TLAC next to an AC just seems wrong to me! :P

I have no doubt that it's a good choice to take against the foes you're mentioning, but it's just not something I'd do. For me I'd rather have an option for twin AC or alternatively just stick with the DCCW/SB left arm option.

It just feels wrong to me. Personal opinion is all.

[Jacques Corbin]

Ironclad all the way! I have a Techmarine on a bike following him, and he scares everybody. I run DCW and DCF with Meltagun and Heavy Flamer, and Assault Launchers. Note that his rule states reroll 1s to hit, but does not specify a phase. The only FAQ I saw for the Ironclad was the points for his Assault Launchers.

 

His real value is that when I move him, he forces my opponent to move. Even when does not herd my opponent into kill zones, he draws all the anti vehicle fire away from my Razorbacks and Stormtalons.

 

So tempted to get a Stormraven now.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Jacques Corbin

[Biscuittzz]

With a fire raptor and stormravens in my list, the assault cannon or autocannon variant has no place so it's an Ironclad for me.

 

 

His real value is that when I move him, he forces my opponent to move. Even when does not herd my opponent into kill zones, he draws all the anti vehicle fire away from my Razorbacks and Stormtalons.
 

 

This over and over again. The value of a unit is sometimes not what it's firepower or assault capabilities are, but rather what it can make your opponent do. Drop an Ironclad out of a stormraven and watch the enemy scatter. 

[Jacques Corbin]

Or when he is on foot, watch the INTELLIGENT Black Templars player be like, "nope, not driving my Land Raider Crusader anywhere near that thing," just as planned. Remember, I move, advance, and still hit you on a 4+ with the Meltagun. *smirk*

[Biscuittzz]

watch the INTELLIGENT Black Templars player.

 

.

 

*runs*.

[Tonius]

I've got one regular Dreadnought with twin Lascan, combat fist with HF

The next one will probably be a DC dread or à venerable with 2 twin auto cannons

[Zeratil]

The FW Chaplain dread is well worth a look I think, the +1 strength aura is very nice.

[Captain Idaho]

No, it's just that the idea of sticking a TLAC next to an AC just seems wrong to me! :P

I have no doubt that it's a good choice to take against the foes you're mentioning, but it's just not something I'd do. For me I'd rather have an option for twin AC or alternatively just stick with the DCCW/SB left arm option.

It just feels wrong to me. Personal opinion is all.

Oh there's something very Imperial to me about 2 weapon systems that are different sizes. The lack of symmetry of an imperfect Imperial technology.

[Gen.Steiner]

 

No, it's just that the idea of sticking a TLAC next to an AC just seems wrong to me!

I have no doubt that it's a good choice to take against the foes you're mentioning, but it's just not something I'd do. For me I'd rather have an option for twin AC or alternatively just stick with the DCCW/SB left arm option.

It just feels wrong to me. Personal opinion is all.

Oh there's something very Imperial to me about 2 weapon systems that are different sizes. The lack of symmetry of an imperfect Imperial technology.

 

Horses for courses and all that. Would love to see a conversion with two ACs though, that would be badass.

[Firepower]

 

watch the INTELLIGENT Black Templars player.

 

.

 

*runs*.

 

 

Huh.  Who dropped this word-grenade over here?  They forgot to take the pin with them... :P

 

I run DCW and DCF with Meltagun and Heavy Flamer, and Assault Launchers. Note that his rule states reroll 1s to hit, but does not specify a phase. 

 

What rule entry are you pointing to there?

[Jacques Corbin]

 

 

 

 

watch the INTELLIGENT Black Templars player.

.

 

*runs*.

Huh. Who dropped this word-grenade over here? They forgot to take the pin with them... :P

I run DCW and DCF with Meltagun and Heavy Flamer, and Assault Launchers. Note that his rule states reroll 1s to hit, but does not specify a phase.

What rule entry are you pointing to there?

Wrecker: You can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for this model if it is equipped with two melee weapons.

 

Direct quote. RAW, it does not specify fight phase, so in theory, as long as I do not take Hurricane Bolters, I only miss on 2s with the Storm Bolter and/or Meltagun.

 

Gotta get down to Hive Hotlanta to give @Acebauer a game this fall. In case y'all don't know, that is on planet Joejuhyol, in the Dixie system.

 

@Firepower, if you ever are in the Old Dominion, ask for the sneakiest beaky at the Battlegrounds of Hive Midlothian, and we can throw some dice. It would be a pleasure just to see your exquisitely painted Black Templars force in person.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Jacques Corbin

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

No, it's just that the idea of sticking a TLAC next to an AC just seems wrong to me!

 

I have no doubt that it's a good choice to take against the foes you're mentioning, but it's just not something I'd do. For me I'd rather have an option for twin AC or alternatively just stick with the DCCW/SB left arm option.

 

It just feels wrong to me. Personal opinion is all.

 

It has the same lopsided mismatch feel for me as the Hellfire ML + TLLC setup. It's just too bad we can't take dual assault cannons like we can take Riflemen dual TLAC.

 

I also think TLAC + AsC would look better if the larger, TLAC arm were on the Dreadnought's right and the assault cannon on the left, instead of the other way around. It would "feel" more right. You can probably do it with some chopping or borrowing a Kheres arm and FW TLAC right arm, but it would be nice if this were a stock option in plastic.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Tyberos the Red Wake

[Kua]

Isn’t ML + TLLC a very classic build?

 

But I don’t understand the whole “feels wrong” for weapon combinations anyway. ^^

[Brother Captain Sirus]

I have been running two dreads recently, both Venerable. A classic hellfire TLLC + ML, that stands with my bare bones captain and devastators, to ensure it hits as much as possible, and a heavy plasma cannon, stormbolter and DCCW build that can overcharge safely near Cap or go off hunting with normal shots then charge.

Both have performed well in recent games so they will continue to be a solid building block in my lists.

[Gen.Steiner]

Kind of tempted to try and convert a twin assault cannon Dreadnought for gits and shiggles.

[Race Bannon]

Kind of tempted to try and convert a twin assault cannon Dreadnought for gits and shiggles.

Doesn't FW's Mortis Dread allow for two AsC? I think they still sell a left arm weapon too. I should have checked before posting, but I *needed* to say something on the internet first!

[LucidNinja]

Contemptor mortis can have dual kheres but fw don't make a LH assault cannon

 

Edit: yeah so rules wise you can have 2, looks like I'm going to be doing some kit bashing

Edited July 14, 2017 by LucidNinja

[Race Bannon]

Yep, I did belated research and got owned. They make a left arm LC though :tu:

[LucidNinja]

It's an interesting comparison between the contemptor and box, contemptor definitely gets a lot extra for around 6 melta bombs extra BUT if your trying to get a bit of dakka in cheap the standard mortis isn't terrible. Contemptor has 2 wounds, better movement, bs, an invuln, and higher strength gun

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I love quad autocannon.

[Gen.Steiner]

Ooh, a quad lascannon dread... now there's a tank hunter and a half!

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'll admit that I like the Rifleman (even if the name is based on the look of the RFL-1N Rifleman rather than its actual stats. . . which would be a TLLC/TLAC armament).  I built one in 5th Edition and it served me well.  They seem like they'd do fairly well in 8th Edition, too; a comparatively high rate of fire, good Strength value for shooting at light armor and all infantry, D2 for killing heavy infantry and putting wounds on vehicles.  My one problem with it is sadly fluff-related since technically Iron Hands want every Dreadnought to have at least one "hand" CCW for symbolic purposes.  Still though, while I have since stripped the paint and torn that Dreadnought into its component parts, I'll probably rebuild it eventually and test it out on the table.  Given how prevalent lascannons appear to be becoming, an armor saturation list with more Dreadnoughts than an opponent can really handle probably isn't a terrible idea...

 

 

As for other variants, the drop pod exclusion makes me sad about the old Distraction Ironclad going away, though I still feel that it's a good build; the extra Toughness alone makes it more resilient to plasma, melta, and missiles and double heavy flamers are nothing to sneeze at in the horde-heavy metagame that seems to be evolving.  You just have to employ it differently -- as part of your front line rather than as a deep striker -- and I think it'll make a great speed bump to stick in the way of units that want to 1st- or 2nd-turn charge.  As a plus, the hurricane bolter is actually worth taking now.  Also, an Ironclad with Might of Heroes on it?  That sounds like heaven to me.

 

The Venerable upgrade is ace, especially if you've got a Captain nearby to generate rerolls.

 

As for the rest of the weapon options, my only real concern is with the assault cannon.  Yes, it is a generally awesome gun, but with its comparatively short range, you'll have to remain mobile to get the best out of it which means you're losing accuracy (and thus lethality).  I think it'll be best on a Venerable chassis to keep your to-hits as 3+ when moving.  Autocannons, for example, have a long enough range that you can plant the Dreadnought in one spot and potentially never have to move and thus never have to worry about the accuracy loss.