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How are the Tau faring in 8th so far?

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#1
Skaorn

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The Tau are what got me started in 3rd Ed and I will always hold a soft spot in my heart for them even though I moved on to 3.0 Chaos for a more tactically viable army shortly after. I still had them until the codex with the Riptide came out and decided to give them up (I liked the model but hate the spamming of special rules like nova reactor that was becoming commonplace in 40k). From what I've been learning about 8th though, things are looking rather grim to me for the Tau. From Bolter Rifles seeming to be better to Pulse Rifles, the apparent loss of JSJ, and the focus on making Assault better; I'm not seeing anything that great for them right now. What do current Tau players think of 8th?

#2
Swarmlord Unleashed

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Judging from the internet, they were one of those hit the hardest by the loss of AV, and all battlesuits got nerfed down to near unplayability with loss of JSJ and huge point hikes. Seems like they're looking at being the next Tyranids this edition, everything's overcosted and their best HQ is a flying gunship.
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#3
the jeske

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They are bad. nerfed on  a ton of units, there are very few good units and it is encourged to spam them [and the end army isn't very good anyway]. But what is realy bad is that a lot of the bad stuff still are bad.

 

There is also ton of stuff like the shield FAQ, that just doesn't make sense at all, other then GW wanting to make them bad.


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#4
Ishagu

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I actually think Tau are good.
Lots of units have fly which is so useful. You can disrupt back lines very well.

Firepower is still great.

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#5
Trevak Dal

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I actually think Tau are good.
Lots of units have fly which is so useful. You can disrupt back lines very well.

Firepower is still great.

The firepower is mitigated by being bs 4+ on a majority of units and the previous ability of markerlights mitigating that disadvantage with one hit has been buried deep in the markerlight chart.

Related to that are the seeker missiles. Yes they are a lot better now (mortal wounds so no saves) but it's a lot harder to get them off.

Riptides were undercosted and needed an increase in points, but I feel like "Tau are like how Tyranids were and are Cruddance's new whipping boys" isn't inaccurate.

They bring back jump shoot jump it will be a step in the right direction. Fly and the drone thing is okay but not enough.

Regarding Primaris Marines, I'm not impressed by them with my Tau or chaos. They are literally "yo I want to spend more points on 2 wound space marines in smaller units" GK Paladins in 5th edition basically.

Except they can't use any current transports. And the small squad sizes makes them vulnerable to crisis intervention.

Riptides are pretty garbage tier. If they move any, they are -1 to hit with their weapons, forcing you to take an upgrade to mitigate that. You use your Nova reactor it gives you an unsavable wound (mortal wound).

Tau plasma wounds marines on 3s now, but so do normal plasma. It only comes up as a problem when you are taking on tougher targets.

Rail guns are awesome (real Railguns on hammerheads) you do d6 damage and d3 mortal wounds, you pay through the nose for them though but I don't mind that.

Stealth suits got better in that they got an extra wound, but still only have burst cannons and 1 fusion per 3 like they are codex marines or something.

Crisis are t5 and got 3 wounds. Which is awesome. But lack of jsj means having to rely on new chicanery of always having gundrones nearby to catch the damage.

And go with gundrones because when that ability is used, it's a mortal wound (so no saves) and gundrones can at least shoot (a :cussing lot, 4 shots each) and accomplish the same thing, but most Tau players got a stupid amount of gundrones.

Many upgrades steer you towards taking drones too (they break off and become their own units even if you bought them for a crisis team) and work in combination with fly on the suits as basically poor man's JSJ.

The overwatch ability is limited (because that would be some righteous bull:cuss to have to try and go up against)

Tldr they took a lot of body shots and a kick to the balls, but you can make a fight out of it-not if you majored in taking a lot of riptides though.

Edited by Trevak Dal, 13 July 2017 - 02:21 AM.

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#6
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Firepower is still great.

 

B)

 

Anyway, I do keep hearing a lot about massive Gun Drone swarms as sorta cheesy tomfoolery.  


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#7
Adeptus

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I think part of the problem is that a percentage of players jumped on the Tau bandwagon because they were one of the most OP, easy-to-win-with factions in 7th and now they're not. So there are lot of people who never really invested in the models or the lore, who have lost their only reason for playing that army (the competitive edge it game them) and so are quite upset.
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#8
Firepower

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I think part of the problem is that a percentage of players jumped on the Tau bandwagon because they were one of the most OP, easy-to-win-with factions in 7th and now they're not. So there are lot of people who never really invested in the models or the lore, who have lost their only reason for playing that army (the competitive edge it game them) and so are quite upset.

 

That may be part of the problem, but if I was a big fan of Tau, put a lot of work into my army, loved the fluff, etc. I would still be rather pissed when my army went from top-tier to meh-tier.


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#9
Kilofix

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My opinion may be the exception but I think Tau are not necessarily weaker but they just play differently from 7th.

It's more important to focus fire with markerlights, actually use shield drones to screen, manta strike in force instead of in small 3 suit groups, etc.

I think once folks adjust, it will be ok. EWS, ATL, TL, are good systems. Being able to advance and fire assault, or fall back and still shoot with suits is an advantage. Being able to mount 3-4 weapons on suits and fire them all is an advantage. Having homing beacon is an advantage. Being able to allocate wounds to drones without having to roll is an advantage. Having double the number of shots for everything that was twin linked is an advantage. Having multi shot burst cannons that will damage almost anything on 5+ is an advantage, etc.
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#10
Frater Cornelius

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The Codex may bring more special rules and whatnot. There is yet hope.

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#11
Trevak Dal

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Shield drones with the FAQ are no more useful than gundrones or marker drones and since they all cost the same, it's best to have gundrones slinging 4 s5 shots each than a shield drone which does nothing.

The FAQ change is where if you use the sworn protector rule (where the drones within 3" take the hit(s) for any friendly Tau units) they take a mortal wound (no saves allowed) which means shield drones are pointless as they offer nothing a gundrone can't.

And I don't know about big swarms of gundrones, you got to be mindful of moral taking them out. Now MSU is the way to go

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#12
Leif Bearclaw

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Frankly, the loss of JSJ battlesuits is brilliant. It worked far better in the original Tau book, where the majority of battlesuits weapons were short range (and less effective, 3 shot burst cannon, fusion blasters only being as good as meltaguns) and they couldn't double up. Under those conditions the second jump was kinda needed, especially in 3rd, to stop the suits just being instant assault bait. But then it became BS, with missile pod spam suits sitting at 30-odd inches, unable to be touched because they hide every turn after dropping a heaping pile of S7 death, which seems to have got even better, with potentially 3-4 per suit, d3 damage and a save modifier. Is it really so tragic that the opponent now actually gets a chance to shoot back?


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#13
sfPanzer

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Weird how this topic didn't show up for me until now. o_O

 

Anyway, I think T'au are still fine. They could use some (read a good amount) of adjusting to get some proper internal balance but overall it doesn't look as bad as many people try to make it sound.

Not saying there aren't some bad things, but it's not the end of the world just yet and there are ways to win games.


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#14
Swarmlord Unleashed

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I think part of the problem is that a percentage of players jumped on the Tau bandwagon because they were one of the most OP, easy-to-win-with factions in 7th and now they're not. So there are lot of people who never really invested in the models or the lore, who have lost their only reason for playing that army (the competitive edge it game them) and so are quite upset.

Yes, now they're playing Tyranids and Orks wacko.png. Damn power gamers giving my faction a bad name...


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#15
sfPanzer

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I think part of the problem is that a percentage of players jumped on the Tau bandwagon because they were one of the most OP, easy-to-win-with factions in 7th and now they're not. So there are lot of people who never really invested in the models or the lore, who have lost their only reason for playing that army (the competitive edge it game them) and so are quite upset.

Yes, now they're playing Tyranids and Orks wacko.png. Damn power gamers giving my faction a bad name...

 

Well at least we T'au player will have forever to deal with the "cheese army" stigma even tho on tournaments they got outclassed by Space Marines and Eldar quite often. Some people just learned that playing against T'au sucks and is unfair and whatnot and will stick with that thinking forever no matter the actual reality. ermm.gif


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#16
Ishagu

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9/10 Tau armies I encountered in 7th were static, cheesefest gunlines of multiple high toughness MCs.

Glad this play-style got nerfed. Tau players will actually have to win using good tactics and movement as opposed to simply list building with powerful units :-D
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#17
sfPanzer

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It's sad that the MC playstlye is basically completely gone (because big mechs are cool, just as a Knight list is cool every once in a while), however I much prefer that proper T'au lists are more viable again.

Would be nice if GW could manage to make both types of lists just as viable with the Codex.


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#18
depthcharge12

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I've actually still seen quite a few table wipes with "normal" Tau lists, which, on the whole, is better. It's mostly come down to good generalship with allocating markerlights correctly and using the strategy of divide and conquer. Tau are by no means OP like the last few editions, but they hold their own. Definitely a thinking man's army as you can't just spam "ideal" units anymore, and the meta is so varied that it doesn't actually exist at the moment.
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#19
Claws and Effect

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You mean Tau players actually have to use strategy and tactics now...instead of just plopping a bunch of undercosted MCs on the table and rolling a crapton of dice?

Oh no. Whatever will they do?

I don't have anything against Tau personally. But the power gamers gave you guys a bad rap that's going to be hard to shake off.
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#20
sfPanzer

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You mean Tau players actually have to use strategy and tactics now...instead of just plopping a bunch of undercosted MCs on the table and rolling a crapton of dice?

Oh no. Whatever will they do?

I don't have anything against Tau personally. But the power gamers gave you guys a bad rap that's going to be hard to shake off.

Yeah definitely. It's sometimes pretty annoying when reading totally T'au unrelated threads and they suddenly start bashing T'au lol

Especially when you're a player who always played with units that were considered as useless (like Stealth Suits and Pathfinder/Broadsides with Railweaponry). :D


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#21
Swarmlord Unleashed

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I am sad that apparently FW decided to invalidate the Kroot stuff. I was hoping for legacy rules at least...

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#22
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I am sad that apparently FW decided to invalidate the Kroot stuff. I was hoping for legacy rules at least...

 

Personally feel the Kroot and Vespid are forced and something of a cutting floor addition to Tau. I personally would love to see them bring out melee focused Crisis suits and the like as the Kroot offer things other races do better. You want brutal charge fest? Orks. Want big scary monsters? Tyranids. The aux units of the Tau are their worst units to be fair and offer very little.

I understand some like their idea and the like but lets face it, they are niche at best.

 

As for Tau themselves, their 'static gunline' play style is kind of a symptom of shooting armies. Why get close when you can stay far away and still to damage? Would be the same as saying "ugh, orks only run at you and do nothing else but those charge rushs". Tau shoot you and should do so with unique upsides for it but right now they are lackluster however I will put something forward, points being higher overall causing smaller armies.

 

So far games I have been playing lead very quickly to being tabled ether one way or the other with ether side thus having little reason to get objectives. Something I feel deserves a topic by itself.


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#23
Skaorn

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You mean Tau players actually have to use strategy and tactics now...instead of just plopping a bunch of undercosted MCs on the table and rolling a crapton of dice?
Oh no. Whatever will they do?
I don't have anything against Tau personally. But the power gamers gave you guys a bad rap that's going to be hard to shake off.


There have been people calling the Tau overpowered since they came out, even though a good opponent could pretty much wipe the board every time because the army was so weak. I stopped playing before they became OP, but you'll excuse me if I'm a little dubious after hearing people whine about the Tau when I beat them because I capitalized on piles of their mistakes.

I see people here saying that they're not bad, their play style just got changed. If this is true, I know I'd be frustrated by it and I think others would be too. It doesn't seem to happen very often and never really goes over well. The only one I can think of was CSM loosing daemons.
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#24
Vector Strike

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Dakka Dakka has a thread on General Discussion where people can input wins and losses for 8th ed games. (https://www.dakkadak...ist/730601.page)

Right now (7/14, 00:21AM GMT -3), the Tau W/L is this: 17W/40L. It has the worst W/L ratio of all armies with any representation in that thread. It's a small group of players, but at least it is organized and, well, Dakka Dakka is the biggest 40k forum.

 

Some may say people are still playing with 7th-style armies to justify such a gross number of defeats, but almost 1 month after 8th launch we should've seen a better W/L. We aren't.

The 2 main Tau facebook groups and Advanded Tau Tactica forum also report more losses than wins. Tourney results are even worse, when Tau can manage to get a win at small games (1000p or less), but anything greater makes them like Sisters were in 7th - 1 list works, and not even by much.

Anedoctal-ly, I've won against a melee-heavy SW list, but lost to a vehicle-heavy AM list.

 

So, in my view, Tau isn't doing well at all, except in very casual metas (curiously, power levels make our stuff much better costed than by points). Some changes are needed to make it on par with other codexes, and I'm glad the new GW administration has the Living FAQ project to allow that.


Edited by Vector Strike, 14 July 2017 - 03:24 AM.

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#25
Deadnaughty

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This edition has turn 1 charges (with some models going as far as 28" + 2d6), deepstrike and charge from 9" away and you can charge from transports again (tho less good as in 5th).

It makes for a bad time for pure shooting armies.







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