Schultzhoffen Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) @Prot 100% agree. Maybe 10 man objective secured tactical squads that can fall back and shoot with x2 plasma guns and a grav cannon will be the new "go to" unit? God Emperor! I hope so! 10 men can survive a fair few casualties (7 to be precise) and still shoot very well as they withdraw. Overlapping fire from other units is also not to be underestimated in this situation. Come to think of it, a 10 man hellblaster squad could be fantastic, too (although quite pricey). We'll all know in a few weeks. Even that may change as other codexes come out. Edited July 19, 2017 by Schultzhoffen Captain Idaho 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 First turn charges are so common, our chapter tactics are amazing. Whenever you get caught out by a unit moving 24+" you'll be far happier to have the UM tactics covering your back. I don't know how many times I've wanted to fall back and shoot without penalties, and now? Awesome! The Raven Guard CT seems good, but then you realize the strongest game space marines have is at 12-24", so only long range units like devastators will regularly benefit from it (since it doesn't affect vehicles that aren't dreadnoughts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) The really fun thing with our chapter tactic is that it allows us to charge much more often. Have a tactical unit or intecessor unit that just rapid fired but didn't finish of the target unit? Get in there and do some damage if you are still stuck in on your turn no big deal as you can walk out and still shoot well. Depending on positioning this can mean you have walked around the screening unit to shoot at a juicy character. Just having that option constrains where they can put their characters. This is even nicer with dreadnoughts that remember to bring their squeezing arm. Edited July 19, 2017 by TrexPushups Captain Idaho 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Hmm that's a few options I haven't thought of (for various reasons); cheers guys. Grav cannons in a Tactical squad. Like, duh! How could I miss it! Actually easy as going for cost. Still, that's pretty cool and powerful. The other aspect I never consider, because of a hang up of previous editions, is Rapid fire weapons can be fired and you can still charge. Tactical squads can really pile on wounds on units now because of that. Being able extricate ourselves and still be offensive in a later turn means we can keep our pressure on opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Oh I love the tactic of falling back from a combat to circumvent the unit and murder the character they were providing cover to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Interesting ploy. Could be quite frustrating for opponents to find their support characters the victims of being gunned down by the remnants of a Tactical squad. On that note it's important to remember we can't move through opposing models so we need to deploy not in a clump but a line so we can't be surrounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I played a game recently where my 3 grav centurions were not able to shoot for 2 game turns because of the unit consolidation rules. On the turn after they were actually destroyed, prior to that it was a case of simply being tied up. Armies are so fast now, so many avenues of assault, that you cannot expect to be able to keep units from Assault. Knowing my Centurions can fall back and shoot is an incredible boost to them and similar units. Captain Idaho 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyterran Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Itll be interesting to see if things like Guilliman's reroll will only work on models with Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines or as it has been now (including vehicles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Auras seemed to work the same when that demo game with the Redemptor Dreads was played. I don't think they'll change. The chapter tactics are the cherry on top to encourage themed armies and grant benefits to such forces, limiting the current soup lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Ed Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Just had another thought as I was list building. Unless the rules change in the Codex, your Sergeant's no longer trade their bolter for a close combat weapon and Pistol. Since you can now take both a Power sword and a combi-weapon, the combo-weapon will always be a better choice then a Plasma Pistol since we can fall back and shoot. This is actually pretty great for close order build tactical squads. The Power sword will put out wounds for the fight phases you find yourself in combat. But, after you fall back, you have the choice to rapid-fire bolters or hose them down with promethium or plasma or attempt both if you feel lucky. I'm actually pretty excited about plasma weapons, a Power sword, and a heavy Bolter on a tactical Squad hanging out with Cato. That should be pretty tough to shift while retaining a reasonably significant damage output. Kallas 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Sirus Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 One thing to consider is that some armies like tyranids and slaanesh daemons have units that can hurt units that fall back or prevent a unit falling back altogether, so while our CT is looking good i wouldnt recommend building an army fully around it as your main tactic. Not saying anyone would ofcourse but it is a good thing to keep in mind as a tac sgt with combi and chainsword will make an extra attack in cc just wont have the same punch as a power sword but costs less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I'd rather give my sergeant a combi weapon and bolter so he can have the firepower of three men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garreth Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I'd rather give my sergeant a combi weapon and bolter so he can have the firepower of three men. "Sergeant equipment list" in index restricts this to have only one bolter-like weapon on sergeant :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 He may exchange his Bolt Pistol for a combi-bolter, as stated. Guess what he still has? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGatch113 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Auras seemed to work the same when that demo game with the Redemptor Dreads was played. I don't think they'll change. The chapter tactics are the cherry on top to encourage themed armies and grant benefits to such forces, limiting the current soup lists. Is there a rule that limits CT/Stratagems to detachments of purely <Chapter> ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyterran Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I imagine that is how the Chapter Tactics rule will be written, or atleast how GW has hinted at it (i havent seen the rule printed myself). If the detachment is made entirely of units with <Chapter>, gain the following benefit for your units with the following keywords: Infantry, Bikes, Jump Infantry, Dreadnought. Something like that, i imagine. Maybe theyll save a few words and say that all non-vehicle units get it (vehicles wiht the Dreadnought keyword do benefit), which would let Guilliman benefit too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 It's funny that Guilliman doesn't seem to benefit from his own Chapter Tactics but at least he smashes face in Assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I don't know if anyone has a membership to MiniWargaming but they just posted a 'vault video' that features Ultra's verses Chaos. Ironically almost all of their 'blue' marines are what I sold them (minus the Primaris and Guiliman). It's largely an infantry based Ultra force in a Brigade... and the formation of 3 Vindcators (well not formation but the ability to use "Line Breaker"). This equates to 15 command points. Free 3++ invuln Relic + ability to roll Deny the Witch might be mandatory for me. Oddly enough the games I'm seeing are surprisingly balanced. There's some advantages to having your codex out for sure, but it's not nearly as lopsided as past generations of the game where a new codex comes out and becomes the auto flavour of the month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dariokan Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) Or alternatively, you can go there : https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marines(8E) and see all relics, strategems and so on. (yes, I'm helping writing this stuff). So when you take a look at the UM new Strategem, reroll all 1s (or all misses for Tactical/Intercessors), this synergize extremely well with our chapter tactic (if the retreating unit has not been reduced to 2 models, hence it would be a total waste) and our special Warlord trait is really nice with Calgar or Guilliman, has you can easily get in the 10-15 range for command points, and gaining back 3-5 points on average per game. IMHO, one the nicest "specialist" warlord trait. It's fluffy, making our army the masters of tactics. Edited July 23, 2017 by Dariokan morsla 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I'm loving our Strategum. Makes me want to take more Tactical Marines with combi/specials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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