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Black Templar Chapter Tactics Leaked: Reroll Charges


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#1
Kilamandaros

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Edit: It's been confirmed we will have our own Chapter Tactics, Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Relics.


Edited by Kilamandaros, 18 July 2017 - 04:16 PM.


#2
Gerhard

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We'll see. I've stopped believing rumours and unclear definitions of developers during the development process because so far the end-product has always been different :-).

I can't imagine that GW would single us out in the core rulebook on the Librarian rule, but not balance that out by means of a Black Templar specific stratagem to deal with that imbalance opposed to the other Chapters.
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#3
redmapa

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There will always be exceptions but if that does happen then the Imperial Fist CT will need to be two fold to give us anything, like one 'defensive measuers' for bolter and fort related bonuses and 'offensive protocol' to give us something and you choose one at the beginning of the game.

 

I dont know, personally I think we'll keep our status as exception when it comes to chapter tactics, after all its not just us as the badab chapters also need their own tactics OR they need to add a keyword in their characters like 'Raven Guard successor' so the first founding tactics work on them.

 

I guess there's only a couple of weeks left for the codex to arrive so, patience!.


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#4
Kilamandaros

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I hope it's not true as well but also going around on the chat there is confirmation only 8 Chapters will receive their own Tactics, Strategems, Warlord traits and Relics:

 

  • Blood Angels
  • Dark Angels
  • Space Wolves
  • Ultramarines
  • Imperial Fists
  • Iron hands
  • White Scars
  • Raven Guard

 

I will certainly be boycotting buying the codex if this is true.


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#5
redmapa

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I hope it's not true as well but also going around on the chat there is confirmation only 8 Chapters will receive their own Tactics, Strategems, Warlord traits and Relics:

 

  • Blood Angels
  • Dark Angels
  • Space Wolves
  • Ultramarines
  • Imperial Fists
  • Iron hands
  • White Scars
  • Raven Guard

 

I will certainly be boycotting buying the codex if this is true.

 

BA/SW/DA will have their own codex and wont be in the vanilla codex.


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#6
HenricusTyranicus

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SM Codex part-revealed on WHlive today - Rob confirmed that only founding chapters have chapter tactics and that descendant chapters will draw their tactics from their founding chapter and gave the example that Crimson Fists would use the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics. This would suggest that Black Templars would also use the IF tactics...

He didn't mention us specifically and GW may view us as popular and separate enough from the Fists to give us our own but at this point it seems unlikely we'll get special treatment.

If this is the case I am not happy...

7th edition codex also said that descendant chapters use parent chapters chapter tactics, and also had the CF using IF chapter tactics. Yet, lo and behold, we had our own. I'm not too worried.

Edited by Marshal Mattias, 14 July 2017 - 06:42 PM.
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#7
Brother Cristopher

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[quote name="Henricus Institoris" post="4819177" timestamp="1500049254"]

I'd dare to say that the Black Templars players deserve at least Chapter Tactics. There are at lest two strong points for this: firstly, we once had a separate Codex (but apparently this is not a point that is considered important by GW as it became clear over the years that they deem C: BT a haunting mistake :P); and secondly, because there is precedence - we got our own Chapter Tactics in both sixth and seven edition codexes. I see the "understandable" part as expressing the implicit problem GW has with the status of the Black Templars; let me reiterate: as we had our Chapter Tactics from their inception, it would actually be understandable for them to still be a thing.

Edited by Marshal Mattias, 14 July 2017 - 06:43 PM.
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#8
Henricus Institoris

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I'd dare to say that the Black Templars players deserve at least Chapter Tactics. There are at lest two strong points for this: firstly, we once had a separate Codex (but apparently this is not a point that is considered important by GW as it became clear over the years that they deem C: BT a haunting mistake tongue.png); and secondly, because there is precedence - we got our own Chapter Tactics in both sixth and seven edition codexes. I see the "understandable" part as expressing the implicit problem GW has with the status of the Black Templars; let me reiterate: as we had our Chapter Tactics from their inception, it would actually be understandable for them to still be a thing.

Amen.

It ties into the issue of what exactly to do with the Templars specifically. I wouldn't be surprised if they experimented with a CT for them yet couldn't distinguish it enough from other CTs. That or they've simply opted for the easy approach.

With a little hope, maybe they'll release a CT for Black Templars in Chapter Approved later this year.

Edited by Marshal Mattias, 15 July 2017 - 09:50 AM.

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#9
balordazul

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So GW on Facebook replied to my comment earlier today with this.

 

"Black Templars, you say? We reckon we'll have some information for you soon! Watch this space.."  

 

So take what you will for this and they have said a few times that we will have chapter tactics and nothing has led me to believe that it will be Imp First tactics.  



#10
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#11
Henricus Institoris

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So GW on Facebook replied to my comment earlier today with this.
 
"Black Templars, you say? We reckon we'll have some information for you soon! Watch this space.."  
 
So take what you will for this and they have said a few times that we will have chapter tactics and nothing has led me to believe that it will be Imp First tactics.


That's how they respond to every query.

Don't get your hopes up.

 "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ The Call of Cthulhu, H. P. Lovecraft


#12
Firepower

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We already had Chapter Tactics, what was to suggest that we shouldn't/wouldn't continue to have them?

I highly doubt that GW will somehow 'abandon' us in such a blatant regard, but that doesn't rule out the possibility. Singled out as an exception to the Codex Astartes in 6th and 7th as well as the Index, retaining our Crusader Squads and characters, none of them point to GW suddenly going 'No CT for you!' or 'How dare you expect such a thing!'

I don't know what will happen. I don't work for GW, and I'm not a witch. But based on trends and previous experience, it's perfectly rational and reasonable to expect Templar CTs.

Edited by Marshal Mattias, 14 July 2017 - 06:46 PM.
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#13
Kilamandaros

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So GW on Facebook replied to my comment earlier today with this.

 

"Black Templars, you say? We reckon we'll have some information for you soon! Watch this space.."  

 

So take what you will for this and they have said a few times that we will have chapter tactics and nothing has led me to believe that it will be Imp First tactics.  

 

The Emperor hopes you're right! A more positive look on it would be if we're completely left out of the SM Codex perhaps it would point to getting our own?

 

We'd have to use the IF tactics, stratagems etc. for a long time, probably over a year but I'd be willing to wait if I knew we were due to get a separate codex again...


Edited by Kilamandaros, 14 July 2017 - 05:52 PM.


#14
Firepower

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So GW on Facebook replied to my comment earlier today with this.

 

"Black Templars, you say? We reckon we'll have some information for you soon! Watch this space.."  

 

So take what you will for this and they have said a few times that we will have chapter tactics and nothing has led me to believe that it will be Imp First tactics.  

 

The Emperor hopes you're right! A more positive look on it would be if we're completely left out of the SM Codex perhaps it would point to getting our own?

 

We'd have to use the IF tactics, stratagems etc. for a long time, probably over a year but I'd be willing to wait if I knew we were due to get a separate codex again...

 

 

Being left out of the dex altogether would leave Templars in limbo.  No Crusader Squads, Characters, etc.  Unless we were to continue using the index until something new potentially came along.

 

But really, a Templar dex or equivalent is about as doubtful as them squatting Templars.  There's nothing to suggest reason for either event.


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#15
Henricus Institoris

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A pipe dream?  Based on what?  We already had Chapter Tactics, what was to suggest that we shouldn't/wouldn't continue to have them?
 
I highly doubt that GW will somehow 'abandon' us in such a blatant regard, but that doesn't rule out the possibility.  Singled out as an exception to the Codex Astartes in 6th and 7th as well as the Index, retaining our Crusader Squads and characters, none of them point to GW suddenly going 'No CT for you!' or 'How dare you expect such a thing!'
 
I don't know what will happen.  I don't work for GW, and I'm not a witch.  But based on trends and previous experience, it's perfectly rational and reasonable to expect Templar CTs.


See my response to Cris.

I'd dare to say that the Black Templars players deserve at least Chapter Tactics. There are at lest two strong points for this: firstly, we once had a separate Codex (but apparently this is not a point that is considered important by GW as it became clear over the years that they deem C: BT a haunting mistake tongue.png); and secondly, because there is precedence - we got our own Chapter Tactics in both sixth and seven edition codexes. I see the "understandable" part as expressing the implicit problem GW has with the status of the Black Templars; let me reiterate: as we had our Chapter Tactics from their inception, it would actually be understandable for them to still be a thing.


Amen.

It ties into the issue of what exactly to do with the Templars specifically. I wouldn't be surprised if they experimented with a CT for them yet couldn't distinguish it enough from other CTs. That or they've simply opted for the easy approach.

With a little hope, maybe they'll release a CT for Black Templars in Chapter Approved later this year.


I can see where you're coming from, though to receive a Chapter Tactic this early in the game was a little too hopeful. I'd be surprised if BT got the Sisters/squatting treatment, but at the same time I'd be surprised if they received any love whatsoever beyond a basic Chapter Tactic.

As for a codex? Eh. There are other factions far more deserving of a codex at this stage, such as the Lost and the Damned.

 "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ The Call of Cthulhu, H. P. Lovecraft


#16
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I'm not really concerned one way or the other. If we get them great. If not or they're useless, so be it. I'll forget to use them like I do now with command points.

I'm more upset about the existence of FOC being mostly pointless. Or primarchs running around on the fields.

There's a pic from FW's new book showing a certain character must be the general unless the Emperor of Mankind is present. After reading that, chapter tactics are the least of my concerns.

It's not confirmed, but it does lead to a Emperor model and rules eventually. I would like to have the model, but I would not want to see it on a field of any kind.

Besides, I'm not competitive enough these days to worry about chapter tactic rules.

#17
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I'm not really concerned one way or the other. If we get them great. If not or they're useless, so be it. I'll forget to use them like I do now with command points.

I'm more upset about the existence of FOC being mostly pointless. Or primarchs running around on the fields.

There's a pic from FW's new book showing a certain character must be the general unless the Emperor of Mankind is present. After reading that, chapter tactics are the least of my concerns.

It's not confirmed, but it does lead to a Emperor model and rules eventually. I would like to have the model, but I would not want to see it on a field of any kind.

Besides, I'm not competitive enough these days to worry about chapter tactic rules.

 

I'm almost 100% positive that was in the Legio Custodes section of the Prospero Heresy Book, I don't think we'll see the Emperor stand up anytime soon in 40k, Primarchs are another story however. 

 

I will be disappointed if there are no chapter tactics, I get simplification but the Templars don't tend to fight like their parent chapter.  All we can do is wait.


Edited by MyD4rkPassenger, 14 July 2017 - 06:27 PM.

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#18
ronin_cse

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I hope it's not true as well but also going around on the chat there is confirmation only 8 Chapters will receive their own Tactics, Strategems, Warlord traits and Relics:

 

  • Blood Angels
  • Dark Angels
  • Space Wolves
  • Ultramarines
  • Imperial Fists
  • Iron hands
  • White Scars
  • Raven Guard

 

I will certainly be boycotting buying the codex if this is true.

 

You forgot Salamanders (poor guys!) so that only leaves two options for other chapters not 3. Sounds like MAYBE CF won't have their own (Rob could have made a mistake reading it) but I suspect BT will still get their own. BT are just so different it makes sense


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#19
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I've removed the totally unnecessary off-topic and personal jabs - let's stick to the topic without resorting to silly arguments.
---

I recall similar phrasing at the launch of the last codex - they used the words "first founding" then as well, but we were still in it. Faith is your shield, brothers.

Edited by Marshal Mattias, 14 July 2017 - 06:51 PM.

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#20
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Everyone settle down, if you can't play nice this thread is going to be taking a break.

BT will almost certainly get their own tactics. That list of 8 chapters wouldn't include BA DA or SW because they aren't in C:SM they will have their own dex down the road.
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#21
Henricus Institoris

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You forgot Salamanders (poor guys!) so that only leaves two options for other chapters not 3. Sounds like MAYBE CF won't have their own (Rob could have made a mistake reading it) but I suspect BT will still get their own. BT are just so different it makes sense


Holy hell, I hadn't even noticed the Salamanders didn't have a Chapter Tactic. That's a huge slap in the face for one of the better First Founding chapters. Yeah, they flat out take precedence over the Templars. Sorry brothers, but First Founding > everyone else.

I do hope Rob made a mistake, though I can't really see Templars as being feasible until they regain some unique formations to at least distinguish them from the average Space Marine army better (Sword Brethren, for example).

 "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ The Call of Cthulhu, H. P. Lovecraft


#22
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Where did the statement of "only 8 CT will be found in the codex" come from? I've also heard that DA etc will be in the codex, and others voice that they won't... hard to say without concrete evidence. I'm just hoping BT receive their own, would be cool.

#23
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Information from the stream, iirc. As a few others have already pointed out they rushed through the list, so it's possible they missed stuff out or made a mistake.
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 "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." ~ The Call of Cthulhu, H. P. Lovecraft


#24
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Unless they said so during the actual bat rep Rob only said that there were 8 CTs in the book but did NOT specify which ones they are outside of the UM, in fact he made it a point to say that he wouldn't be releasing that information. Any claim of what CTs there are in the book other than UM and IF (which were confirmed by the CF example) is speculation, although it's a very safe bet to say that all the other founding chapters, other than the usual DA BA and SW, will be in the book thus leaving two extras


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#25
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Unless they said so during the actual bat rep Rob only said that there were 8 CTs in the book but did NOT specify which ones they are outside of the UM, in fact he made it a point to say that he wouldn't be releasing that information. Any claim of what CTs there are in the book other than UM and IF (which were confirmed by the CF example) is speculation, although it's a very safe bet to say that all the other founding chapters, other than the usual DA BA and SW, will be in the book thus leaving two extras

 

Those 2 extras would likely be Crimson Fists and Black Templars. Exactly as I would expect.


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