Extropian Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Consensus so far: Vindicators are okay. The Laser Destroyer is far better at anti-not-infantry. Depressingly, it's actually better against infantry too unless the unit is 10 or more in size. And even en it's still better if it doesn't move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Yeah, it's simply better all round. Has longer range too :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucidNinja Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I hate to be that guy but FW rules seem to be as unbalanced as usual, I'm wondering if the codex will have significant changes to those lack luster units. I have 2 vindicators that want some table time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I mean, maybe we should wait until the Codex drops for a possible change, then make effort to playtest the thing. In a vacuum, on paper, we can armchair the Vindicator all day. But once on the board solo or in squadron, in cohort with an army, it's actually not as bad as the numbers suggest? I'm an optimist on the internet by nature. Yet, I also own some and would love to use them as well. Maybe not for every list or game, but certainly have them in the arsenal as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyberos the Red Wake Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Do you reckon we'll actually see drastic unit changes with the arrival of the codex? Maybe adding certain rules, or massive point drops for certain unique weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extropian Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 There have been 1-2 changes confirmed so far (New rule for Intercessors etc), so maybe. I don't expect anything too sweeping though. That said, GW seems much more willing to make balance adjustments already, so potentially we will see tweaks to the Demo Cannon. This is the nice thing about the way they have seperated the weapon points/rules from the models this time, they can easily tweak an individual weapons performance if it's too weak or strong. However, that being said....i'm not sure how to tweak the Demo without breaking it, other than making it cheaper (which would be a bit of a poor solution tbh). - You can't just tweak the number of shots and leave the rest alone, because it'd be WAY too good as an AT gun. - You could increase the shots and lower the damage per hit. A flat "3" damage would give a D6 shot Demo the same maximum tank killing power, but make it better against infantry. However, this makes it terrifyingly good against 2 or 3 wound units, as there's no survival chance unlike the D6. Tricky weapon due to the way their new weapon stat system works. You can see they realised this....other old ordnance blasts got D6 shots in general, and d3 was for small templates. The Demo was singled out due to balance reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucidNinja Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I think it should be a terrifying weapon, the biggest balancing issue is that it can now move and shoot. Make it have an alternative fire mode for staying still would be an option... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Errrr, what about different ammo types? An anti-tank shell with d3 shots, high Strength, high AP, and Dd6; and an anti-personnel shell with like 3d3 shots, Strength in the 6-ish range, medium AP (maybe -2?), and a flat 2 damage per hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Do we really want to wishlist though? I mean, there has to be a way to make this beast work well. After the work GW has put into this edition where *most* units are actually worth taking, there was bound to be some that would be less likely an option. I mean, was the venerable Vindicator always a niche unit? If so, then maybe it still is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 It's meh to ok-ish with Guilliman next to it. That's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helycon Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 They can have the demolisher cannon do more hits per hit against infantry. That simulates a big blast, but doesn't buff it against armoured foes. It's not a new idea, there are several weapons using this profile and I believe it makes sense here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extropian Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Ok, so I have seen the Vindicator stratagem. It's powerful, but requires 3 Vindicators. Sadly I suspect it's not worth it, though when it DOES pay off its nuts. Like...."can kill Guilliman in one shot" level of nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 So, like the 7th Linebreaker. Sort of. Not really. Kinda. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extropian Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 So, like the 7th Linebreaker. Sort of. Not really. Kinda. Maybe. Hmmm....smaller AoE, but potentially more powerful with what it does hit, as it does 3D3 mortal wounds to all targets hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 It would be sweet if it got power of the machine spirit w/ the codex, or run the upcoming IH rules (https://www.warhammer-community.com). I've only been using the vindicator when playing @ 2k but it's still been solid. All pie plates are gone. I suspect internet logic or not actually using it is why I see calls of garbage. This is not the case. Once again, better vs. vehicle/single model. Can be worse cause random on multi, but we have re-rolls. Still a beefcake w/ many wds. and T8. You gotta pay landraider prices for that right? Nope. Recent games have been @ patrol or 500, but played one 2k pt. game wed. night w/ a Vindi, and it was fine. Actually a steal considering it's points. Soaked alot of firepower, killed a raider, mauled a squad of incubi, and charged some warriors/witches to block. I think it poked a few more warriors before the game was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Stratagems like that are why I want my Dedicated LRCs back :( But we are spoiled for choice on dangerous CP, using a very limited pool. Taking 3 Vindis for the ultra shot seems like something you'd be tailoring to a very specific enemy (Imperial Knights, for instance), not an all-comers set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I'm still going to be taking mine in games. Rule of Cool > Internet Also, mine always perform for me. They aren't game changers, but they have an impact. Maybe I just believe in mine. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Even with the strategem they aren't particularly good :-/ It's the short range and movement penalty that hurts them, on top of a random number of shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrummersGhost Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 So, vindicators are now 135 points each as opposed to 160. Will this encourage anyone to use them more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Looking at the tri-las v Vindi thread, not by a wide margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arigatous Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 125 according to CA, while Razorback with twin Las is 120. Could it be worthy now? nvm, found this: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/343817-vindicators-mk2/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Threadomacy and new thread linked above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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