BA "Chapter Tactics" Speculation

[Indefragable]

Every player will come up with strategies to counter your buff, which is what you want them to do. It's a control mechanism, and by knowing how they will adjust to it you can play your cards to lead them into how you want them to play.

Naturally. But that doesn't mean we should get arbitrarily limited rule.

[Quixus]

With the state of the 8th edition detachments - there is simply no need for this.

There is, if you want 9+ command Points but generally I agree, DA  don't need Terminators as troops either

 

I would like our chapter tactic to allow us to deep strike in  7 5".

FTFY. We have all those shiny inferno pistols, we want to use them right away.

[LutherMax]

 

I would like our chapter tactic to allow us to deep strike in  7 5". :P

 

FTFY. :P We have all those shiny inferno pistols, we want to use them right away.

Shall we meet halfway at 6"? :D

[Quixus]

in that case the problem is the "more than" usually present in extraordinary means of arriving on the battlefield.

[Blindhamster]

I honestly think our stratagem will be to deep strike 9 inches but still be able to move

our CT is likely to mimic red thirst or black rage type rules and be something strength or maybe attack boosting, probably only if we charge - even though that sucks.

[Indefragable]

If we caused Mortal Wounds on the Charge, then maybe that wouldn't be so bad. If yer gonna be situational, it better be damn good.

[Tonius]

For now, ultramarines and WS have pretty good CT, IF and BT are not so bad.

I really hope that ours will be as good as the formers at least. :/

Edited July 20, 2017 by Tonius

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Thinking about our possible chapter tactic (who knows really?) and looking at some of our high point values I am wondering if whatever it is gonna be is already priced in and play tested. I have heard playtesters (FLG) saying they were worried BA were OP for 8th, but I am not seeing it.

 

Yet.

(I can still hope anyhow)

 

For instance:

20 points for an inferno pistol when other armies pay 12 or even 9 for similiar weapons.

Guessing we don't have the full picture on that one yet as I would not pay 9 for em as is.

 

The game was playtested so what else explains our points costs besides saweet special sauces we don't have yet.

 

Whatever it is going to be seems likely to be speed / positioning related...

 

Free move after setup before T1 perhaps as we rage/thirst forward.

Might explain some of those unit point prices? (Furioso Dreadnought and Baal predator etc)

 

I am guessing some play on Descent of Angels for our strategem perhaps.

Drop and Move would be stellar and go a long ways towards less gunline shooting in 8th edition generally.

Would sell alot of Blood Angels...

Prolly too much to hope for tho for an army wide chapter tactic in my opinion.

 

---

 

Could be just +1 str on the charge...

 

Could be any unit rolling a 6 at the start of the turn must move towards the closest enemy and has +1 attack...

Ya never know with Games Workshop... It could suck like Hoover badly.

 

 

I am still going to play Blood Angels whatever it is.

Maybe just more or less 40k depending. =)

Edited July 20, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[Jorre]

For me if the BA chapter tactics will allow me to play jump marines of any kind competitively, I will probably spend the next couple years doing nothing but building/playing more Blood Angels and I already have a very large collection...

 

Saying that tho if they ballz this up again I am not going to spend another edition struggling to be competitive. BA are my #1 choice but with the other options out there I may jump back on my custom chapter. I am already seeing some really fun possibilities in salamander and raven guard tactics

[Indefragable]

The whole "BA could be OP" :cuss that FLG has been shoveling causes me to Black Rage something fierce.

 

Until Reece personally builds a BA army and comes in too 3 at the LVO or something I don't believe it.

[Remtek]

GW can't figure out how to balance assault (Just my opinion), so i would not have high expectations when/if we get an assault oriented CT. I'm glad we dodged the White Scar CT. The BT tactic is nice, but a bit boring. 

[The Unseen]

The whole "BA could be OP" that FLG has been shoveling causes me to Black Rage something fierce.

 

Until Reece personally builds a BA army and comes in too 3 at the LVO or something I don't believe it.

 

Same here. What exactly do we do better than any other marine faction? Especially for the foreseeable future as they'll have chapter tactics, stratagems and warlord traits, where we have the index.

 

And before people post that stupid list of 6 stormravens and Dante, that isn't a freaking Blood Angel list, its a stormraven spam list that literally any marine army can run, we just happen to have a Chapter Master with a jump pack.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Frankie from FLG was the playtester for the BA index stuff, if they say BA is OP, then it'll likely get a nerf.

I think GW let the FLG guys get too close on this release in general, these guys have made a career mocking "forging the narrative" and have always encouraged that world of Ravenspam + Dante style ridiculous lists; now because of what one of their "WAAC" disciples does we'll likely see some adjustment.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Indefragable]

I was listening to the Chapter Tactics podcast and I thought about what they were saying about BA, and how "awesome" they are...until they got to DA and SW and you remember that it takes us 4x 100pt characters to do what they can do with 1-2 they are already going to be bringing.

 

RAGE.

 

We HAVE to have something like Encarmine Fury at this point. Considering how many other factions get re-rollable charges and/or +1A, we simply have to have something different (and worthwhile) in comparison.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Indefragable

[Charlo]

I'm tempering my expectations for +1S on the charge/ in combat.

 

Anything else is great.

[Helias_Tancred]

Frankie from FLG was the playtester for the BA index stuff, if they say BA is OP, then it'll likely get a nerf.

 

I think GW let the FLG guys get too close on this release in general, these guys have made a career mocking "forging the narrative" and have always encouraged that world of Ravenspam + Dante style ridiculous lists; now because of what one of their "WAAC" disciples does we'll likely see some adjustment.

 

Yep. Not a fan of them. Agreed.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Sorry if I lit off some FLG hate. That was not my intention in mentioning them. Everybody is entitled to their opinion certainly.

 

I too am frustrated that 8th is super fun, but seems to have some big balance issues as is.

 

I think Reece and Frankie are good guys who honestly love 40k. They were not the entire playtest team, FLG have been the most social part I have seen outside GW is all.

Most of those guys at FLG are actually not total WAAC players; in my opinion based on the armies I watched them play online, but some of them are certainly.

I think Reece and Frankie are going to catch a lot of crap in the coming months by having put themselves out there so far for 8th if the shine wears off.

I am sure GW is happy the gun might not be pointed at them if this all goes bad, but it is their game.

Try and cut them some slack is all I am saying. We all want 40k to be aawesome.

 

I hope that Blood Angels will indeed get good (and perhaps borderline OP) as many of the things FLG have mentioned would be good indeed are.

I also hope that the well will go deeper than 6 Ravens and Dante. (I dislike that style of 40k myself).

I currently am failing to see BA as a powerful force too. That frustration after many years of not being even half way decent makes me rage too.

 

For now I am going to keep the faith and hope for a good codex. After being slapped in the face a few times by GW for a few editions I also expect bad things.

Hope for the best, but expect the worst my grandfather used to say.

The wait is going to suck =)

 

Anyhow, I think these FLG fellas really want 40k to be fun for all. 

I wanted to post and say so before the hate gets carried away.

They started talking about fixing broken stuff before most of us even realized it was perhaps broken.

They are actually catching mad grief from the WAAC players by trying to reign things in and make the game a bit more fun for everybody I think.

 

No good deed goes unpunished I suppose. Let's not kill the messenger even if we suspect he is wrong.

I think Reese and Frankie really give a damn and are well intended.

I sure think so and wanted to say so anyhow.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Sorry but the FLG crew has been pushing that style of play for as long as they've been around... Reece says "Tactics" are his "bread and butter", and his version of tactics is literally just building totally disgusting lists, with very little to do with actual game play, and certainly nothing to do with 'fluff'...

 

Of course I entirely agree that FLG cannot take the blame for all of the playtesting, GW are the ones who invited them in the first place - but as far as Blood Angels go -- that was Frankie from FLG. The last time Frankie even looked at a Blood Angel model was when Razorback spam and Matt Ward characters were new on the table, guess what we have now?

 

The event that they run, the LVO is the pinnacle of disgusting, "WAAC" mashups of every 'best unit' spammed to max efficiency. This is exactly why the Blood Angels had an "ITC" presence. Not because the Blood Angels community was playing and winning - because someone only interested in a cheap win was spamming the "Flesh Tearers Droppod Taxi Service" ...so therefore, Blood Angels need a nerf. We are here again.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Indefragable]

There is something to be said about the ability to squeeze blood from a stone. My local meta features many people who are absolutely brutually efficient in getting every possible point to work for them and find some insane combos. They are good people and 99% of the time fun to play against, so I certainly appreciate the skill.

 

There's also something to be said about 40k "in the wild" where anything RAW goes. In many ways, that's what WAAC and/or super high-end competitive tournaments tend to feature. Again, there's a skill there that has to be admired, to a certain degree.

 

...but, fluff, narrative, and "just because it's fun?" Factors aside, my biggest issue with that hyper-competitive angle is that it tends to whitewash the game. Certain units rise to be top and thus will ALWAYS be seen, making for a two-tiered game of haves and have nots. Factions and armies with the "good" units do well. Those that do not have the "good" units tend to do poorly until someone creative comes long and performs well at an event. Then the meta boat is rocked, people freak out, adjust, and then add one or two units to their lists of "good" units to counter the new tactic and the status quo returns. Last edition the "haves" were bikes and super-mobile dakka units. This edition is shaping up to be hordes, self-sufficiency, and more dakka.

 

I don't think anyone in the design department ever actually compares to armies to each other to see how they stack up.

[Brother_Dan'l]

I must have missed something after 5e Grey Knights sucked the joy out of the game for me.

 

What/who are FLG and what do they have to do with anything?

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Sorry but the FLG crew has been pushing that style of play for as long as they've been around... Reece says "Tactics" are his "bread and butter", and his version of tactics is literally just building totally disgusting lists, with very little to do with actual game play, and certainly nothing to do with 'fluff'...

 

Of course I entirely agree that FLG cannot take the blame for all of the playtesting, GW are the ones who invited them in the first place - but as far as Blood Angels go -- that was Frankie from FLG. The last time Frankie even looked at a Blood Angel model was when Razorback spam and Matt Ward characters were new on the table, guess what we have now?

 

The event that they run, the LVO is the pinnacle of disgusting, "WAAC" mashups of every 'best unit' spammed to max efficiency. This is exactly why the Blood Angels had an "ITC" presence. Not because the Blood Angels community was playing and winning - because someone only interested in a cheap win was spamming the "Flesh Tearers Droppod Taxi Service" ...so therefore, Blood Angels need a nerf. We are here again.

I totally respect your opinion =) I see what you are saying and really dislike the WAAC play also. (or I would have sold off my Angels for the new hotness long ago).

 

I would suggest you watch some of the Signals from the Frontline podacsts from the last month or so however.

Reece is advocating within the ITC for making the game less about crazy bring whatever WAAC and more about gameplay and fun to some degree.

Limited Army Comp and Progressive Scoring Missions etc. Maybe he has turned over a new leaf or something.

Maybe he is worried sh*t is so out of control that his events are gonna suffer, I dunno maybe both.

 

Anyhow, I don't run in those circles so am just saying he seems like a good dude and a gamer like the rest of us.

I wouldn't go to a tourney and face some of the Dbaggery that goes on there myself tho so I get what you are saying.

 

But I dont think Reece is everything wrong with 40k, quite the opposite in fact.

I watched a stream of him teaching a dude to play and he didn't run him over and then crow off into night like:

"I WIN, I WIN, buy better models you LOSER !!..." "In Your FACE..." "Soon I will be more powerful than even Matt Ward..."

- or anything even remotely like that.

I think he is one of the good guys *nod.

 

It is my impression that Frankie did the BA testing at FLG. I doubt very much he was the only BA playtester out there.

He seems to be a very good player so I am comfy with him kicking the tires on our army.

But I am thinking he was not the only architect of what is to come.

 

-----

 

Anyhow, back to thinking on chapter tactics. =)

I hope we get one.

A few months ago I was worried Blood Angels might get squatted with the way the fluff was looking.

I am glad GW let us off the hook sooner rather than later.

I hope we get something at least as good as the Black Templars got *nod.

 

Looks at Lemartes... wonders why some of the Templar players are upset.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

I must have missed something after 5e Grey Knights sucked the joy out of the game for me.

 

What/who are FLG and what do they have to do with anything?

Front Line Gaming. 

They run the Bay Area Open, SoCal Open and Las Vegas Open. 

They manage the ITC - Independant Tournament Circuit.

They participated in playtesting 8th edition is why we were talking about them.

 

They are talking about voting on format / rules for one of their events here.

They also start talking about broken army comp in 8th edition.

[Jolemai]

Folks, can we swing this back on topic please?

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Sorry Jolemai. You are right for sure.

 

New Iron Hands Chapter Tactics are up.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/20/chapter-focus-iron-hands-july20gw-homepage-post-3/

 

Interesting that the strategem for the Iron Hands looks to be awesome, perhaps more powerful on the table than the free passive tactic itself.

 

I really think we should think not only about our chapter tactic but also a sweet strategem & Relic (Which we would pay for with command points or points).

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Looks like all of the Codex Marines stratagems are 1CP each. Hopefully ours follow suit.