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Need help Dealing with 3+ Knights


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#1
oldmanlee

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Hi guys

Has anyone faced a three knight list yet and if so what's the best way of dealing with them now?

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#2
Interrogator Stobz

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I faced a four FW Knight list and a Magnus+ three Chaos Knight list on the weekend.

 

Bring a Thunderhawk, other than that, I got nothing. Lascannon and or drop melta Vet spam?


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#3
PaddyG

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This is just a theory, but with melta and lascannons being our premier anti-tank, standard codex wise... 

 

I think getting a librarian into range for a Null Zone to nullify the 5+ invulns would be invaluable.



#4
Interrogator Stobz

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I did see a lot of Smite spam killing Super heavies at the weekend's tournament.

20 Libbies?


Nah, still not enough...


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#5
Kilofix

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Knights with invul shields work. But yeah you need a bunch.
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#6
dtse

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Lots of lascannons.

And then lots of chaff to bubble them. You have to stop them getting into combat cause titanic feet will wipe you out. And people make the mistake of charging them with their chaff. That's the last thing you wanna do. They can only step over you if they are in combat. You wrap them 3/4 of the way around 1" away and now they are just immobile or forced to charge your chaff.

If you are in a competitive meta you gotta be able to deal 12+ wounds to a knight in one turn to at least drop them down a tier.

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#7
Interrogator Stobz

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Add 77pt Company Masters to those Lascannon to make sure they hit.


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#8
dtse

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Yea for sure. Or if you are running azrael/shroud/lieutenant bubble that makes your lascannons pretty good. The 5pt cherub is definitely nice in the devastators and making one hit in 2+ is awesome.

Melta theoretically is good but you gotta get to 6-12" to make it as reliable as a lascannon and you have basically sacrificed those things. It's fine if you are dropping cheap scions spam but to send 100 points of marines to die is not a good trade usually. Better to shoot for 2-3 turns with 48" range lascannons

Too bad dreadnoughts just don't do well enough in combat with knights and without invuln saves and only 3+ armour and 4 attacks. Just not good enough.

Leviathan and flux bombard will rock too but again. Short range and now we are talking forgeworld. In which case there are LOTS of ways in that book to one-shot a knight (cough twin volcano cannon falchion cough)
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#9
Interrogator Stobz

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Agreed about the Melta, Twin Lascannon Ven Dreads are not too bad too, especially protected by Azzy and Shroud. Leave the Primaris Lt. out, he's not a DA after all and cannot be trusted.


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#10
dtse

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Haha not yet. Soon you can be sure. We will all need to switch over eventually. Give it a year.

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#11
dtse

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Yea the whole debate of devs vs dreads vs predators as lascannon bearers. Pros and cons to all three. Depends on what kind of tables you play on and what else is in your list. I feel the devastators are most flexible and the cherub and signum are nice. They also benefit from cover and if you run 2 cannons per squad you got 3 ablative wounds. Dread doesn't degrade like the predator but can only hit two targets. Predator is most mobile but suffers by moving. But has three targets and is hardest to kill. Potentially. Pros and cons.
Chaff wise we are limited. Scouts are the cheapest we have and they're not really cheap cheap as far as chaff goes. Of course you can ally in conscripts. 50 conscripts and a commissar will wrap anything for same price as a few scout squads. But then we are leaving the faction.

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#12
Adeptus

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Haha not yet. Soon you can be sure. We will all need to switch over eventually. Give it a year.


The hell with that! Old marines for life!
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#13
dtse

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I don't wanna paint 100 marines again. But at least this time will be only 40-50 lol. Alas it's inevitable. GW is a business after all

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#14
Knight Master Eladric

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I wonder how much damage double melta speeders could get in before they were blown to bits. Dare I suggest a couple land raiders with Az, a Lt, and a techmarine near by?

#15
dtse

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Land raiders are not toting as much firepower as 2 dev squads of lascannons and way more points. And a landraider just needs 1-2 shots in the face from a battlecannon to become much worse.

And while I love speeders, they are just too fragile and too expensive for what they are to be gunboats of any kind of reliability. If you have a bunch of other threats then for sure speeders might not be target priority but then you probably could have spent all those points elsewhere. I mean 450 points only gets you 3 typhoon speeders. Funnily enough that's the price of a knight!

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#16
Interrogator Stobz

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If you want to stay 'DA', bring a Relic Falchion SH Tank Destroyer. Twin Volcano cannon next to Azrael and a Shroud, 860ish and then Azzy etc... ummm.... Yup.

 

On the Lt thing, a bit off topic but I'll wait another 10,000 years thanks. msn-wink.gif

 

Take a mix of Devs and Dreads imho, one cannot Godhammer enough.

Esp. since it takes an average of 21 moved shots to kill one Waveserpent!

This is why we have Azzy and friends of course, gotta increase that average roll nonsense.


Edited by Interrogator Stobz, 18 July 2017 - 12:46 AM.

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#17
Immersturm

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Meltas Pods seem kind of useless, when half range is 6" and the podding distance is 9". Lascannons and overcharged Plasma is what I found to be working. A full unit of combi-Plasma Vets are quite capable of taking off 10 wounds in one volley, given the re-rolls. As for melee, it is the usual. Well, basically anything that is S8 or higher and can do more than one Damage. Beyond that, it's the dice.

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#18
Interrogator Stobz

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I'm already saving up for a Falchion, just for the lolz.

 

Nothing says your Knight is dead like 2D6 S16 2D6 damage shots to the face.


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#19
Chaplain Lucifer

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Maybe field 4 Knights against the 3? teehee.gif  Or maybe Field only Flyers and re-enact King Kong 40K?

 

Jokes aside take the advices ofthe guys above but don't blow your budget to try to counter it. Do the best you can with what yougot and can get your hands on and just try to have a fun game.  Maybe play an objectives game so the 3 Knights can't be everywhere?


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#20
Immersturm

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The best about Plasma spam is that it is good against anything, seeing as it has a risk-free small model killer and means to really put the hurt on big stuff. I wouldn't go overboard on Lascannons though. They are very niche and Necron vehicles laugh at them, as do horde armies.

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#21
oldmanlee

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Maybe field 4 Knights against the 3? :teehee:  Or maybe Field only Flyers and re-enact King Kong 40K?
 
Jokes aside take the advices ofthe guys above but don't blow your budget to try to counter it. Do the best you can with what yougot and can get your hands on and just try to have a fun game.  Maybe play an objectives game so the 3 Knights can't be everywhere?

.

Haha I have two knights so not far off
I'm playing a practice game against a mates torney list for an event we are going to in a few weeks so I'm just going to try a few things out see what I like

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#22
dtse

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I'm already saving up for a Falchion, just for the lolz.

Nothing says your Knight is dead like 2D6 S16 2D6 damage shots to the face.


I just received my falchion. People can see it being built and painted soon in the channel! Unfortunately a lot of tournaments will ban forgeworld or at least follow the ITC and BAO ruling of banning stuff over a certain power level. Which makes knights stronger....

Yea necrons quantum shielding is good against lascannons but we are talking how to kill knights. Also that's what twin assault cannon Razorbacks are for...necrons!

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#23
Immersturm

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I'm already saving up for a Falchion, just for the lolz.

Nothing says your Knight is dead like 2D6 S16 2D6 damage shots to the face.

I just received my falchion. People can see it being built and painted soon in the channel! Unfortunately a lot of tournaments will ban forgeworld or at least follow the ITC and BAO ruling of banning stuff over a certain power level. Which makes knights stronger....

Yea necrons quantum shielding is good against lascannons but we are talking how to kill knights. Also that's what twin assault cannon Razorbacks are for...necrons!

The Necron comment was more of an example of why stuffing an allcomers list with LC just to counter Knights is counterproductive. And yes, TLAC RB for the win :D

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#24
Adeptus

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I don't wanna paint 100 marines again. But at least this time will be only 40-50 lol. Alas it's inevitable. GW is a business after all


We're getting way off topic, but I don't think GW is going to retire the normal marine range. It doesn't suffer from the same problems the Empire or Bretonnian ranges in WHFB did, and it's a HUGE range that at the moment doesn't transate at all to the Primaris marines, since they can't even use the same transports.

I don't doubt that numarines will be the new hotness and I expect to see less new releases for the old marines, but I personally will not be buying ANY new marines. At least until the lore approaches something I would consider palatable, which is probably going to be never since it's so bloody awful. And I'm starting a new marine army right now, too!

#25
Brother-Captain Sharp

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I don't wanna paint 100 marines again. But at least this time will be only 40-50 lol. Alas it's inevitable. GW is a business after all

GW can have my true marines when they rip them from my cold, dead fingers.

 

As for the OT: I played into a 2 Renegade Knight list twso days ago with Azreal/Darkshroud/Techmarine/Lascannons and was able to handily nullify much of their impact by derping them a tier. As soon as you can do 12 wounds to one, it hits your bubble on a 5+. I got them both derped to the point where they were not killing much at all, then finished them off with a squad of Deathwing Knights.


Edited by Brother-Captain Sharp, 19 July 2017 - 04:45 AM.

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