How have you coped with 200yr timeline advance?

[deathspectersgt7]

WOW 200 yrs have passed . Been fighting orks and other scum and other aliens in the Underhives all over Armageddon . Met some of these new Chaps  fine fellows . But they swear they have been around for awhile I guess our Chapters have never heard of them because I don't recall seeing these Titans on any War zone we have been involved in . But we will cope with it for now . Or just go on our merry way and ignore it all together.

[Slave to Darkness]

Im actually thinking of starting another Loyalist army who see the Primaris as an offensive bastardization of the Emperors plans, and actively seek out Primaris marines to put down. Maybe they have close ties to an obscure sect of the Ecclesiarchy who say that Primaris are Abominations, if the Emperor wanted Primaris he would have made them himself. I could actually name each marine after B&C users who dont like the new Shinys. 

[DogWelder]

Being someone who was really invested in the lore of the 13th Legion, I'm quite happy with the massive additions to the backstory of the Ultramarines/Ultramarine successors/Ultramar.

 

The fact that they're bringing back the 500 Worlds and re-constituting the Ultramarines Legion (Yeah 10k Marines who are all from the Ultramarine gene-seed stationed in Ultramar who will instantly follow the orders of the Guilliman or Calgar? Legion in all but name).

 

Also like how they paid a lot of attention to detailing the successor chapters of the Ultramarines. On that note I felt it was kind of odd that the successors who were clearly on the other side of the warp rift could just come and go as they please. 

 

I also like that they paid attention to the new political structure, geography and new worlds in the reformed 500 worlds as well.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Caius Tadius

[Jagus Kumkani]

Wasn't sure where to put this, so general seemed appropriate.

 

I know for a fact there are a number of players out there, myself included, who have at least a tangible backstory for their army/collection. What their driving force is, why they fight together (even if it's just they are the 4th company of Blood Ravens so obviously they fight together for example).

 

And with that through the years of playing battles with the army you've added the memorable encounters to their tapestry and it's developed over time.

 

My question is how have you coped with there being a 200 year gap now which your army has been fighting in.

 

For example my force was He'Stan lead force compromised primarily of the 4th Salamanders company. And had famous history with deamons (mainly Tzeentch for the captain) and Tyranids. However 200 years have passed since then and I'm not sure how to fill in that hole. Like 209 years He'Stan has probably been doing other stuff, should have been some marine body turn around in the force etc.

 

I've brought Primaris marines in via a nice way I think, with He'Stan pulling rank to get the new toys but only to argument the men he trusts not to take over.

 

Anyway else got a similar - arguably pointless - problem? Or is it just me?

 

I'm having this issue too. I play Salamanders 4th Co. just like you, I'm not sure how they will fit into the story as a whole.

[Walter Payton]

See this is a prime example of what I said earlier - viewing new fluff as inspirational rather than constricting!  

 

Im actually thinking of starting another Loyalist army who see the Primaris as an offensive bastardization of the Emperors plans, and actively seek out Primaris marines to put down. Maybe they have close ties to an obscure sect of the Ecclesiarchy who say that Primaris are Abominations, if the Emperor wanted Primaris he would have made them himself. I could actually name each marine after B&C users who dont like the new Shinys. 

 

I like it.

[Arkangilos]

The problem is some people got bored with that canvas, so GW changed it. And now we've got Guilliman and these retarded numarines running around devaluing 10,000 years of Astartes achievement.

 

There is practically no instance of an Astartes doing something heroic where we can't think "But a Primaris version of that Astartes could have done more/better/cooler" and that's indescribably depressing.

This is all kinds of wrong.

 

First, heroism is the inverse. The weaker and the more mortal you are, the more heroic your actions are. An imperial guardsman that stands his ground is infinitely more heroic than a space marine that does so. A normal marine is more heroic than a Primaris marine for the same reason.

 

Second, heroic actions can never be taken away simply because someone stronger comes out. If you win the Medal of Honor, and two years later super you's are created, you still won the Medal of Honor. You still did those actions. It doesn't matter if the super you's are better than you. You still did heroic things.

 

Third, you must think :cuss on the Imperial Guard, because there is literally nothing the guard has done that a space marine can't do better either. So I guess 10k years of history for the Guard have not counted for anything at all, and nothing they have done was good?

[Servant of Dante]

 

The problem is some people got bored with that canvas, so GW changed it. And now we've got Guilliman and these retarded numarines running around devaluing 10,000 years of Astartes achievement.

 

There is practically no instance of an Astartes doing something heroic where we can't think "But a Primaris version of that Astartes could have done more/better/cooler" and that's indescribably depressing.

This is all kinds of wrong.

 

First, heroism is the inverse. The weaker and the more mortal you are, the more heroic your actions are. An imperial guardsman that stands his ground is infinitely more heroic than a space marine that does so. A normal marine is more heroic than a Primaris marine for the same reason.

 

Second, heroic actions can never be taken away simply because someone stronger comes out. If you win the Medal of Honor, and two years later super you's are created, you still won the Medal of Honor. You still did those actions. It doesn't matter if the super you's are better than you. You still did heroic things.

 

Third, you must think :cuss on the Imperial Guard, because there is literally nothing the guard has done that a space marine can't do better either. So I guess 10k years of history for the Guard have not counted for anything at all, and nothing they have done was good?

It's not wrong or right. Different people have different ways of looking at things. There's no one "right" way to think of heroism in a made up universe. No reason not to disagree, but there's no right or wrong opinion in this discussion, especially since this is all about enjoyment, which is a purely subjective, emotional issue.

[Arkangilos]

Well I mean, it is wrong unless you think space marines invalidate the heroism of the guard.

 

"There is practically no instance of an Astartes doing something heroic where we can't think "But a Primaris version of that Astartes could have done more/better/cooler" and that's indescribably depressing."

 

Can literally be said about the Imperial Guard.

 

If Primaris devalue space marines because they are upgraded space marines, then space marines devalue guard because they are upgraded humans. If this is not the case to him, then he is wrong by his own standards.

 

* The statement being wrong is "X > Y therefore Y is devalued"

 

If he thinks that's always the case then fine, but that means that custodes also devalue Primaris, and Primarchs devalue Custodes.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Arkangilos

[Bryan Blaire]

=][= Getting way Off Topic again, guys. This is about dealing with the time gap for in-universe groups that may not have their fluff fully defined for the time lapse (GW established factions or Homegrown). It's not to debate the nature of the fluff written or other topics. =][=

[Felix Antipodes]

Being someone who was really invested in the lore of the 13th Legion, I'm quite happy with the massive additions to the backstory of the Ultramarines/Ultramarine successors/Ultramar.

 

The fact that they're bringing back the 500 Worlds and re-constituting the Ultramarines Legion (Yeah 10k Marines who are all from the Ultramarine gene-seed stationed in Ultramar who will instantly follow the orders of the Guilliman or Calgar? Legion in all but name).

 

Also like how they paid a lot of attention to detailing the successor chapters of the Ultramarines. On that note I felt it was kind of odd that the successors who were clearly on the other side of the warp rift could just come and go as they please. 

 

I also like that they paid attention to the new political structure, geography and new worlds in the reformed 500 worlds as well.

I'm pretty sure the UM successors shown so far (that are from the Imperium Nihilus) have been mentioned as varying in size from a couple of squads to the full Chapter, with most descending on Ultramar after word of Guilliman's revival began. The lack of detail on the Indomitus Crusade so far makes it hard to know where to slot in your forces if you game using one of these Chapters.

Would be an interesting storyline if Guilliman assumed that only those units that made it to Ultramar were all that remained of Nihilus based Chapters and rebuilt them using Primaris only to find later that the originals were still holding out.

[Adeptus]

This is all kinds of wrong.

 

First, heroism is the inverse. The weaker and the more mortal you are, the more heroic your actions are. An imperial guardsman that stands his ground is infinitely more heroic than a space marine that does so. A normal marine is more heroic than a Primaris marine for the same reason.

 

Second, heroic actions can never be taken away simply because someone stronger comes out. If you win the Medal of Honor, and two years later super you's are created, you still won the Medal of Honor. You still did those actions. It doesn't matter if the super you's are better than you. You still did heroic things.

 

Third, you must think on the Imperial Guard, because there is literally nothing the guard has done that a space marine can't do better either. So I guess 10k years of history for the Guard have not counted for anything at all, and nothing they have done was good?

 

Do the Astartes devalue the IG?

 

Sort of, but not really. The IG are a functionally separate entity from the Marines. They outnumber them, fight different styles of engagement, and have access to a wider range of wargear designed to let them fight those engagements. If GW introduced a new faction of soldiers that had the same numbers as the IG and were deployed to the same types of conflicts, but were all wearing better armour with better guns, and they were all taller and faster and stronger, that would be equally lame and would devalue the IG just as the Primaris devalue the Marines.

 

The reason the Astartes and the Primaris come into conflict and the IG and Astartes largely don't is that while the Astartes are not at all a replacement for the IG, the Primaris are shown to be a 100% replacement for the Astartes. They wear the same armour (but better) use the same guns (but better) fight in the same numbers in the same types of engagements (but better than Astates can) and have the same population. They're practically skipping into the lore singing "Anything you can do, I can do better, I can do anything, better than you!"

 

=][= Getting way Off Topic again, guys. This is about dealing with the time gap for in-universe groups that may not have their fluff fully defined for the time lapse (GW established factions or Homegrown). It's not to debate the nature of the fluff written or other topics. =][=

 

I think it's important during a discussion about how our forces fit into the lore, to discuss what we think the problems with the lore are so we can best work out how to navigate around them :)

Edited July 21, 2017 by Adeptus

[Sawtooth]

I think the only real difficulty I'm having is as a Blood Angels successor, I don't know what's going on with the Flaw and Primaris yet. So I've got to keep some of my fluff a little ambiguous. But otherwise I actually find the time skip a boon for tying together my armies and making new ones. I've even rebooted my guardsmen into a different regiment and color scheme and given them a reason to be fighting alongside my Marines. The Dark Imperium is a bad place :p

[DogWelder]

 

Being someone who was really invested in the lore of the 13th Legion, I'm quite happy with the massive additions to the backstory of the Ultramarines/Ultramarine successors/Ultramar.

 

The fact that they're bringing back the 500 Worlds and re-constituting the Ultramarines Legion (Yeah 10k Marines who are all from the Ultramarine gene-seed stationed in Ultramar who will instantly follow the orders of the Guilliman or Calgar? Legion in all but name).

 

Also like how they paid a lot of attention to detailing the successor chapters of the Ultramarines. On that note I felt it was kind of odd that the successors who were clearly on the other side of the warp rift could just come and go as they please. 

 

I also like that they paid attention to the new political structure, geography and new worlds in the reformed 500 worlds as well.

I'm pretty sure the UM successors shown so far (that are from the Imperium Nihilus) have been mentioned as varying in size from a couple of squads to the full Chapter, with most descending on Ultramar after word of Guilliman's revival began. The lack of detail on the Indomitus Crusade so far makes it hard to know where to slot in your forces if you game using one of these Chapters.

Would be an interesting storyline if Guilliman assumed that only those units that made it to Ultramar were all that remained of Nihilus based Chapters and rebuilt them using Primaris only to find later that the originals were still holding out.

 

I think the UM Chapters on the other side of the rift have a secure passage/communication to the rest of the IMperium. In Dark Imperium one of the main Primaris Space Marine characters (Justinian the painter) who was made using Guilliman's gene-seed is to join the Novamarines at their homeworld after the Indomitus Crusade ended so I assume he can get there without incident. 

[Gen.Steiner]

I think the massive warp rift is less a permanent thing that literally splits the galaxy in two for 10,000 light years vertically and 100,000 light years horizontally, and more a series of powerful warp storms that affect different areas and sectors differently, and which make FTL via warp transit harder and riskier, but not impossible.

[Henimann]

I think the massive warp rift is less a permanent thing that literally splits the galaxy in two for 10,000 light years vertically and 100,000 light years horizontally, and more a series of powerful warp storms that affect different areas and sectors differently, and which make FTL via warp transit harder and riskier, but not impossible.

 

My thoughts exactly - I see the Cicatrix as a more mobile, more malevolent version of the EoT; a convenient fluff excuse for Chaos to pop up anywhere they want, rather than just around the Eye or the Maelstrom.

 

As for my armies, I'm only carrying over my Guard, so I'm just assuming they are a more recent founding of the same regiment.  My marines are all either new, or being stripped, so still trying to figure out their backstory.  Probably going with a Chapter depleted fighting the post-Gathering Storm invasions, reinforced by Primaris.  Not a huge fan of the fluff behind the Primaris (still seem like a way to shoehorn in truescale marines/renew the model line), but I think the intercessors with their bolt rifles are great looking models.  

[Plaguecaster]

I'll probably wait for the DG codex to see how the fluff is for them after which I'll try crowbar my force in somehow, my force originally was a renegade chapter but now have changed them to be a Death Guard Vectorium known as the Harbingers of Decay a ship bound force who are experts at boarding assaults and ship engagements, they are sent ahead of the main plague fleets to weaken, infect and despoil before the main force arrives

Time is always funny in the eye of terror so could easily play it off as just leaving and it's already been the 200 years of the new timeline

Edited July 22, 2017 by Plaguecaster