Mellow Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Yes (had to google it to find out what that was) but yes something like that. Remember in other lore there was a mention of an alien influence that had brought multiple star systems under psychic control. This would be magnitudes larger as the Hive Mind is extra galactic ... unless of course there's a "brain bug" hanging around just outside the edges of the Milky Way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Greetings Well we can ignore Rogue Trader stuff. It's out of date and been replaced. Or we can choose not to. It's all good fun but the problem you have with such older stuff is when it contradicts the newer stuff. Just ignore the new stuff. Lots of it isn't very good. Don't forget that genestealer cults used to be able to worship chaos gods. Not exactly tyranids, but there's an overlap...There's certainly no guarantee that sentience in another galaxy would evolve as it has in ours, however, so it might not create similar echoes in the warp - assuming that the warp is similar in other galaxies, for that matter. It's a big universe (multiverse?). Anything can happen! Edited July 19, 2017 by Brother Sefiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Just waiting for the Dinosaurs to return claiming Terra as their own. That will end well. A hyper-evolved race from 65 million years ago coming back from their extra-galactic journeys. Voyager did it. Only 40k should do it. Grimdark style. Where they HUNT species for sport and for trophies and for reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Greetings Well we can ignore Rogue Trader stuff. It's out of date and been replaced. Or we can choose not to. It's all good fun but the problem you have with such older stuff is when it contradicts the newer stuff. Just ignore the new stuff. Lots of it isn't very good. Don't forget that genestealer cults used to be able to worship chaos gods. Not exactly tyranids, but there's an overlap... There's certainly no guarantee that sentience in another galaxy would evolve as it has in ours, however, so it might not create similar echoes in the warp - assuming that the warp is similar in other galaxies, for that matter. It's a big universe (multiverse?). Anything can happen! Personally I see that as rose tinted glasses. Ultramarines aren't 3rd Founding anymore and Guilliman is a Primarch (super human not ex Imperial Guard) and Tigurius is not half Eldar. There's fun to be had in Rogue Trader but the new stuff is good. I read Dark Imperium and loved it. Really added depth to everyone involved. So no, I'd ignore Genestealers worshipping Chaos Gods for. It's just too 1980s cheese ;) Walter Payton 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 But why do Genestealer Magus look like Malcador?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Regarding the death of a Blood Thirster being the no different to a Hive Tyrant; the 2 aren't comparable. A Hive Tyrant is a material realm creature. A Blood Thirster is a psychic/warp manifestion in the Material realm. Reincarnation... That's interesting but I regard inaccurate. Is it their spiritual essence that is reincarnated or their conciousness? Are they essentially clones, that use a single recorded mind one at a time? I believe that is the case. A Blood Thirster isn't unique because its a warp entity, its unique because its purely a warp entity. A living creature with a soul has a presence in both the warp and the material dimensions while a dead entity is a disembodied soul and therefore a pure warp entity unless imprisoned somehow. The Swarmlord infobox on page 83 of Index Xenos II specifically says that the Swarmlord is a single entity with a single conciousness that is absorbed into the Hive Mind whenever the Swarmlord isn't currently embodied. Standard dualism doesn't distinguish between "spiritual essence" and "conciousness" and doing so would require you to invent an unnecessarily complicated philosophical system for an forum argument over marketing materials for toy soldiers. Hive Tyrants can reincarnate. That means they have souls QED. The Tyranids have vampiric spirit leech powers. Is it reincarnation though? Or is it just the standard science fiction version of cloning, where somehow the clone gets all the memories and skills of the original? It's never seemed to me like the Swarmlord, for example, was reborn with the same soul, rather that a new one was cloned with the memories of the original. As above, the latest Swarmlord fluff specifically states that there is a single Swarmlord whose conciousness travels across the galaxy, no cloning is involved. Wow a quick question ends up making more questions for me to ponder lol. As for 1st ed fluff being out of date Im not to bothered about it being cannon in current lore, its for an Inq28 project that Im kicking a few ideas around for, and Inquisigorkamundaheim isnt exactly 40k fluff legit at times. There's a difference between mixing sources and completely making stuff up that isn't in those sources. Most of what you hear online about first edition fluff is heavily inaccurate. Don't forget that genestealer cults used to be able to worship chaos gods. Not exactly tyranids, but there's an overlap... Chaos worshipping Genestealers were extragalactic aliens, but they were not Tyranids, they came from extra galactic space hulks. But the first edition Genestealer Cult fluff did claim that something like a Genestealer Power existed, it was just weak and simple compared to the Ruinous powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 You made to correct me regarding the Bloodthirster yet just repeated what I said - it is a warp based entity. You appear to saying conciousness equates to a soul? That in 40K is entirely inaccurate. Artificial intelligence alone would refute that notion, but the Swarm Lord's consciousness doesn't require it has a soul. It is a biological artificial intelligence. Its mind is recorded and stored by the Hive Mind and downloaded into a new biological body. I'm struggling to understand your position, apart from trying to correct people (somewhat inaccurately). My theory is my theory and subject to amendment in light of new information of course, but it is in no way contradicted by the Swarm Lord having a conciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) As you say, Capt Idaho, AI refutes the concept that in 40k consciousness = a soul, because the entire reason that Silica Animus is heresy is because it is intelligence without a soul. EDIT: Pariahs also don't have warp presences, but are still clearly conscious beings. Edited July 20, 2017 by Brother-Captain Alecto Iron Father Ferrum 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Indeed. Pariahs are possibly the best example I should have used here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 A consciousness is a collective of biological (or otherwise) neurologically linked information. A soul is something that imprints on the Warp to varying degrees of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Except a soul, in 40K, can have a conciousness without having said neurologically linked information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Yes but A.I. Is conscious but doesn't have a soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Exactly. Just like the Swarm Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaorn Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I swore I read something a while ago in old 40k fluff that Centaurs were an actual xenos species, not the Zoats, and they gave rise to Gaunts. Can't seem to find it, so maybe my mind is playing tricks on me... I think it's important to look at psychic abilities and being a psycher as two similar but different things. Psychers are space wizards that can draw on Warp energy, manifest it in the real world, and use it to do phenomenal things. Being able to communicate or read someone's thoughts or emotions might still be playing with the same metaphysics but wouldn't put you at the level of 40k game psycher unless you can alter reality in some way. Now the synapse creatures can surpress instincts but that could be because the Nids are biologically designed to be overridden by it. It could also be backed heavily by things like communication and pheromones too. A hive tyrant can actually manifest psychic powers on the level of a psycher though. So it's possible that the Hive Mind was psychic but didn't know how to create actual psychers until it ate some here. Of course it could also be possible that Nid psychers aren't true psychers but more like an antenna the Hive Mind can channel power through, but it is still possible the Hive Mind needed to eat something here to learn how to make that antenna. To look at it another, assuming that our earth's and 40k's have very similar histories up to modern day, then Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch were running around and you have people claiming psychic powers even now. No greater Daemons are showing up and no one is running around using super powers. It is implied the Eldar have those types of powers before Slaanesh shows up and I'm pretty certain that 40k states that we really don't get psychers until we start mutating all over the place. Know with Greater Daemons and Hive Tyrants, keep in mind that the GD needs a host to manifest. They are not long term, especially if the host is killed. A HT might be similar to a GD just with a host body tailor made for them, so they can remain manifested for as long as needed. Eventually they get consumed so maybe even a HT body could wear out if they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Exactly. Just like the Swarm Lord. Yes. The "A.I." of the swarm lord may come with a sense of self but that is just it being a complex enough consciousness. It may lack soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Speaking of other galaxies I remember reading a small passage in a BL saying that someone witnessed brief flashes of other galaxies burning and the chaos gods laughing "with glee". (ok maybe not glee but they were pleased) This to me says that even if the void between galaxies is dead and relatively calm in the Warp other galaxies will be equally violent if their are enough species that feed emotion to the Warp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I can think of atleast one chaos corrupted ai (castigator titan stc) so ai must be capable of having a soul and the ai in death of integrity shows a very human sense of disgust with humanity's regression. Also the ai in DOI is on it way to the next galaxy over just for lols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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