Chapter Focus: Salamanders

[Minsc]

 

 

How about flamers getting 2d3 hits instead of 1d6?

That's even worse than rolling 2 dice and picking the highest. You'd average 4 hits instead of ~4,5.

 

I wouldn't spend a single CP on that.

Average on 1d6 is 3.5 with a min of 1.

2d3 is a min of 2 and an average of 4

 

You should re-read my post. ;)

[Custodian Athiair]

I really like everything I'm hearing! Re-rolls due to great equipment is so sweet! That way, even though I'm not playing a Salamander army, I can get the Chapter Tactics without feeling I have to invest in a lot of flamer weapons - it works for every Chapter, Salamander or not. I couldn't be happier. =)

 

While I see your point of view, this kinda says that it's not a tactic that is defining the chapter very well. Granted it shouldn't be so strict that it only makes sense for said chapter, but the ease at which some players are like "gimmie that" it works for me, feels cheap

[Irbis]

You know what is most funny/ironic in this thread? People protesting perfectly fine and sensible tactic of 'using Codex, just better due to superior gear' because it's 'about gear, not tactics', then going and proposing 'buff flamers plox' instead. Yeah, who wants to be free to build their own force, pigeon-holing is good now, and flamers are totally not gear now too

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Irony is an ironic thing, indeed. 

[Extropian]

I'm really glad they have moved away from the usual "Salamanders are just about flamers" thing.

 

Personally i think this much better represents their artisanship and character than the old flame fetish, but i realise my opinion is not in the majority here

 

or rather, on further thought, i think it shows a different angle to it for once. Salamanders have always been that interesting combination of compassionate, careful craftsmen off the battlefield, and brutal, close ranged implacable killers on it.

 

Previously the rules have highlighted the 2nd part, but this is showing a bit more of the first whilst also making them very dangerous. Combined with the flamey tactics and the like, i think it could be perfect in my eyes. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Extropian

[Custodian Athiair]

You know what is most funny/ironic in this thread? People protesting perfectly fine and sensible tactic of 'using Codex, just better due to superior gear' because it's 'about gear, not tactics', then going and proposing 'buff flamers plox' instead. Yeah, who wants to be free to build their own force, pigeon-holing is good now, and flamers are totally not gear now too

 

I actually wanted to see a tactic which encouraged you to get close to the enemy and engage in short range fire fights. I'm not exactly a rule maker so I wouldn't know how to do it, but some buff when you're within 12'' of an enemy model maybe? Or 6''. 

 

Just off the top of a very inexperienced head, so probably wouldn't work tbh

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I wonder if the stratagem changing a units flamer weapons from D6 to 6 would be too OP....?

[Firedrake Cordova]

I'm really glad they have moved away from the usual "Salamanders are just about flamers" thing.

Quite.  The Salamanders prefer short-ranged flame and melta weapons, but they don't eschew other weaponry.  If I remember correctly, they were one of the first adopters of the Whirlwind ...

 

 

I actually wanted to see a tactic which encouraged you to get close to the enemy and engage in short range fire fights. I'm not exactly a rule maker so I wouldn't know how to do it, but some buff when you're within 12'' of an enemy model maybe? Or 6''. 

In the Horus Heresy game, the Sons of Horus' "Death Dealers" rule gives them +1 to hit when firing certain kinds of weapons when within 12" of the enemy.  I'm guessing you could play around with a variant of that.

[sal of manders]

I wonder if the stratagem changing a units flamer weapons from D6 to 6 would be too OP....?

 

If it's something I have to spend command points on, I'd say no; especially if it's a one weapon or one model per CP thing that effects that turn and that's it. What I'd like to see is letting a unit shoot twice with their flamers (preferably with the ability to select a different target).  I don't think it'd be too broken if you only did it once with a unit per CP.

[Galron]

Digging the new CT. I am not a huge fan of flamers this edition, especially since plasma is the new big thing. My fledgling Black Dragon force will benefit greatly from this. This new CT allows for more varied play styles and doesn't force you into one build which works great for me since I am fielding two vanguard squads and I think the only flamers I have in my list are on my storm scouts. And as someone who with my guard uses CP like $1s at a strip club for command rerolls, I am really liking it. Especially since its more than 1 per phase. 

[Charlo]

I'm really loving this tactic and want to see those Flamer Agressors (I mean, outside of the top banner artwork of course!).

 

Imagine if the firing twice extends to overwatch too? FLAME ON.

 

Always had a soft spot for flamers Salamanders, maybe i'll make them my Primaris Chapter?

 

Have we seen a Salamanders Primaris successor?

[Charlo]

Oh, watching Warhammer Twitch - Flamecraft strategem is 1CP:

 

Increase the to wound rolls by +1 for flamer weapons for a unit for shooting phase.

 

So S5 flamers will suddenly wound anything on a 4+, & MEQ on a 2+.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Shame flamers are S4 :p

 

Still...MEQS now wound on a 3+ and GEQ on a 2+? Makes our flamers much meatier against hordes.

 

Combine with a Captain to reroll 1s and suddenly you are converting most hits to wounds! Tasty! Just point heavy flamers at T4 and flamers at T3 for maximum efficiency.

Edited July 21, 2017 by God-Potato of Mankind

[Charlo]

Who said I was talking about normal flamers? 

 

I'm fairly sure the Agressor Gauntlets are S5, seeing how WHTV are talking about it.

[Extropian]

Who said I was talking about normal flamers? 

 

I'm fairly sure the Agressor Gauntlets are S5, seeing how WHTV are talking about it.

 

That is lethal.

3+ for flamers, 2+ for heavies and flamestorm gauntlets.

[CaptainMarsh]

That is good. Still tied to random amount of hits and a lack of AP, which means it still falters against things with good saves and multiple wounds. I would have preferred an additional automatic hit or two, one strength, and one more AP, but this is good nonetheless. You need a dedicated flamer squad to really make great use of it I think.

[Minsc]

Oh, watching Warhammer Twitch - Flamecraft strategem is 1CP:

 

Increase the to wound rolls by +1 for flamer weapons for a unit for shooting phase.

 

So S5 flamers will suddenly wound anything on a 4+, & MEQ on a 2+.

Initial reaction was "...meh, not worth 1 CP", but on second though, this has some great potential.

 

On a unit with a single flamer, it's kinda bleh, not worth a CP.

On a unit with several flamers however it can be (depending on the target) quite devastating.

A Veteran Squad with 5 flamers for instance, or a Land Raider Redeemer with it's two Flamestorm Cannon (if possible), etc.

 

It's not like we really need our CP's for thos failed to-hit rolls or to-wound rolls anyway.

 

Edit: The Hellfire Shells stratagem (Infantry, Heavy Bolter. Only 1 shot but if it hits it causes D3 mortal wounds) also seems really good for Salamanders, since we get that free to-hit reroll.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Minsc

[Extropian]

I think I should point out that 3 Aggressors does 6d6 auto hits, wounding Marines, Orks, Necrons, Guard etc on a 2+.

If, somehow, they don't have to move to get in range, increase that to 12d6 auto hits.

 

Yeaaaaaah. That's not bad.

 

Now imagine a full squad of 5 or 6 (can't quite make out the number) hopping out of a Repulsor.

 

Mwahahaha, BURN IN THE CLEANSING FIRE,

Ahem, pardon me.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Extropian

[sal of manders]

I think I should point out that 3 Aggressors does 6d6 auto hits, wounding Marines, Orks, Necrons, Guard etc on a 2+.

If, somehow, they don't have to move to get in range, increase that to 12d6 auto hits.

 

Yeaaaaaah. That's not bad.

 

Now imagine a full squad of 5 or 6 (can't quite make out the number) hopping out of a Repulsor.

 

Mwahahaha, BURN IN THE CLEANSING FIRE,

Ahem, pardon me.

 

now imagine that with primaris lieutenants or vulkan letting them reroll all those wounds.    and if they follow the usual formula for flamers, all that S5 would be at -2 AP; 

Edited July 21, 2017 by sal of manders

[Extropian]

If you look at my maths in the RAvenguard area, you'll see that Aggressors are just bat:cuss mental.

They had better be a TON of points.

[sal of manders]

If you look at my maths in the RAvenguard area, you'll see that Aggressors are just bat:cuss mental.

They had better be a TON of points.

 

considering a whirlwind with vengance missiles is still going to evaporate them pretty reliably if they've only got 2 wounds each, I'm expecting something close to centurions for their points cost. High damage output, yes, but they seem to be short range.

[Extropian]

 

If you look at my maths in the RAvenguard area, you'll see that Aggressors are just bat:cuss mental.

They had better be a TON of points.

 

 

considering a whirlwind with vengance missiles is still going to evaporate them pretty reliably if they've only got 2 wounds each, I'm expecting something close to centurions for their points cost. High damage output, yes, but they seem to be short range.

Yeah, pure alpha strike unit. In RG they are obscene using the Strike From The Shadows stratagem. For Salamanders, a Repulsor will be obligatory.

[Andrés Pacheco]

A bit disappointed that the flamestorm gauntlets are only S4, but that's just my own fault for pre-booking 1st class seats on the hype train! Still have many useful applications though, and put to bed the OMG HOAERDES! stuff from before.

 

"Captain, we cannot hold them, they spue forth from the heart of the planet itself!"

 

"Where?"

 

"Well, they were there a bit ago...?"

 

Aggressor: <waves> "Hey buddies"

 

.....

 

Still going to build my list around artisan multi-meltas, they just feel more of a threat.

 

Had a random thought about the CT too. Even though it's fluffy because forge reasons, it also brings an element of self-reliance to the Salamanders. No need to be baby-sat by a captain just to be able to hit something, Sallies characters can go off and be heroic where they want, your gun line dudes can handle themselves.

 

And self-reliance is about as fluffy as fluff can be :tu:

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Am I right in thinking Aggressors can only ride Repulsors? If so, neither can Vulkan? So my beloved plan to re-roll those 3x2D6 rolls is arbitrarily hard to do? Unless they come to me :(

[Andrés Pacheco]

Am I right in thinking Aggressors can only ride Repulsors? If so, neither can Vulkan? So my beloved plan to re-roll those 3x2D6 rolls is arbitrarily hard to do? Unless they come to me :(

Was thinking about this last night, and suddenly that 100 point drop pod might pay for itself :) Stick a unit of multi melta devs in with Vulkan, and the Auto-Kebab Family Fun Day is back on the road.