Chapter Focus: Imperial Fists

[Gen.Steiner]

Well from what GW said, the majority of the games they played involved people using cover a lot, so I mean this is a thing where when people play with a lot of cover it comes out great.

 

You mean, play the game as it's meant to be played, with at least 25% of the board being terrain?

[Bronze Katana]

 

Well from what GW said, the majority of the games they played involved people using cover a lot, so I mean this is a thing where when people play with a lot of cover it comes out great.

 

You mean, play the game as it's meant to be played, with at least 25% of the board being terrain?

 

 

Agreed. People should be playing with at least 25% terrain, and I think this rule is great.

 

I like to field armies that can ignore whole aspects of the rules if possible, for simplicity of strategy and tactics.

This is fantastic tactically, because it doesn't matter when your opponent is in cover or not.

You can plan your games accordingly, certainly easier to think about in-game.

 

Likewise though, your opponent will know that cover means nothing at all (unless completely blocking shots). They can ignore thinking about terrain when deploying and moving, except when blocking shots entirely, so keep that in mind.

[Legion of One]

I would have liked re-rolls against vehicles instead since almost all fortifications I've seen have the vehicle keyword but many lack the building keyword.

[Andrés Pacheco]

The Fists stratagem could be something like Tank Hunter, for a vehicle damage buff, or bolter drill for extra shots/better rend on bolt guns. Better rend would have crazy synergy with siege masters..

[NatBrannigan]

That seems like a decent chapter tactic to me as well? I was hoping for something Bolter related since that's why I wanted a small Fists force in the first place, but maybe that's a Warlord trait that's available. I only have some scouts, tactical marines a Devastator Squad that used to be run as a Sternhammer formation so missing out on Bolter re-rolls is a shame, but I'll just have to whip up a Captain to get those back I guess.

 

Also Strategems to come. Looks like you need to use the Fists Chapter Tactics to get access to the Fists Strategems which may change people minds about which Chapter Tactics are best.

[Gen.Steiner]

Don't forget that Imperial Fists don't just field gunlines. They also have assault troops, Terminator-only forces, scout groups, bike and landspeeder recon/strike forces etc etc.

 

Bolter Drill is very restrictive.

 

This, on the other hand, is potentially much more useful for all these other types of forces that the Fists (and their successors) can and do field.

[Acebaur]

Guys this thread is not about what you think the CT should be but rather what it is and what that means for Fists. I personally think it's great, especially with all the armies I faced in 7th that loved using lots of cover.

[WAR]

So this is how I felt the other day when the RG rules (I have an all scout army of Raptors) dropped:

After reading and processing the rules for the Imperial/ Crimson Fists this is how I feel about the Chapter Tactics:

It is not bad but I agree it is situational. I already have my gaming group wondering how the no marine players are going to deal with their lack of cover against me. Hopefully the Warlord Traits, relics, and strategms are really nice. I am really hoping for the best and will play them either way.

[Ishagu]

Ignoring cover modifiers is actually better than one might initially assume.

It's not as tasty as what Ultras, RG, WS and Sallies got but I think there's potential.

 

Depends on how much terrain you use.

[d36williams]

I've warmed up to the Ignore Cover mechanic. It doesn't impact enemies using Stormraven Spam or Knights, but many armies like Tau, Footdar, Necrons and even Orks make use of cover as a matter of course. 

Imperial Fists get to make use of cover while their enemies do not. This allows Imperial Fists to fortify a position while the enemy must advance on them. For many of our opponents it will fundamentally change the way they deploy their army. It allows Imperial Fists to make opponents come to them. 

 

Strictly speaking, Imperial Fists have the best Chapter Tactic in as much as IF models will have a 2+ in cover while their enemies have a 3+. So IF models would be saved twice as often. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by d36williams

[Logiter]

I'm pretty excited for this tactic, but I only have one real worry.

 

When facing an assault based army they no longer have any reason to go from cover to cover as they advance up the board, so they will hit our lines faster.

 

But as already said, great against other gun line armies.

[WAR]

I'm pretty excited for this tactic, but I only have one real worry.

 

When facing an assault based army they no longer have any reason to go from cover to cover as they advance up the board, so they will hit our lines faster.

 

But as already said, great against other gun line armies.

 

Which will just draw them into our guns faster.....plus that allows our vehicles (not counting Dreads) to engage them without them taking cover. 

[Arkangilos]

And that really fits the defender and siege breaker theme. The enemy is basically forced to try to take the walls that they hold, because the fists can hold out better.

[d36williams]

I see the point about an assault army, but in general assault armies were already going to play that way (charging boldly ahead), and any sort of gunline army needed a strong counter charge ability (or speed bump units) already to deal with assault armies. And while ignoring cover doesn't really apply to Knights, an all comers list already needed a way to deal with Knights and Stormravens. The advantage is that building a list that can take on Knights and Stormravens does not preclude a gunline at all, so it plays into a style of list building that IF are already drawn to.

 

I already see Pedro Kantor as best used with a gunline. His 6" move limits his ability to run around the table getting into CC. He's best used to re-enforce a gunline and grant them +1A when the enemy does get close. Adding to that gunline build this Ignore Cover rule just makes the gunline better and generally even more practical. IF having Ignores Cover and our opponents lacking that ability undermines our opponent's own gunlines.

Generally the IF have the power to draw their enemies towards them, so now that we can anticipate a modicum of what our opponents will do we can build our lists to exploit that. It's hard to get Pedro across the table to defeat this and that enemy, so now we bring the enemy to Pedro. 

With Lysander, I'd take advantage of his deep striking. Lysander and a squad of stormbolter Terminators can take up a defensive position much further upfield, so the IF can form two independent gunline groups, one in their deployment zone and one outside. This advanced gunline could be re-enforced with Scouts, with Lysander leading the counter charge. 


 

[CaptainMarsh]

Ignoring cover for the sake of armor saves taken against wounds caused by units with this ability is perfectly fine. It is, however, situational and unlike the RG CT in particular not extremely powerful. It is effective against smaller units that can benefit from cover easier, less effective against hordes who often can't get the cover bonus. RG, WS, and Salamander CTs all work exceptional regardless. It is still a good thing to have, but very dependent on the setup of terrain and the enemy you are fighting. The second half of the CT is pretty bad. I have seen two fortifications in the past few months in a game, and I was the one who paid for and deployed them. It is obscenely situational. If the second half of the CT wasn't utterly awful then Siege Masters would be a perfectly good CT. As it is, it is a CT that could have absolutely no impact on the game dependent upon enemy playstyle and what terrain is used.

[Sete]

Well you know, after seeing IF CT, im half set on an Excoriators force.

 

Buy some fortifications, dug them in, and just shoot every filthy Xenos traitor and heretic out of the board. I laugh at your cover!

[G8Keeper]

Chapter Focus is up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/21/chapter-focus-the-imperial-fists-crimson-fists-and-black-templars-july21gw-homepage-post-3/

[Charlo]

Strategem from Warhammer TV:

 

Bolter Drill:

 

Any 6 to hit generates another hit with bolters (not generating more from those).

[Acebaur]

IF Warlord trait is pretty awesome, fits them very well

[G8Keeper]

Strategem from Warhammer TV:

 

Bolter Drill:

 

Any 6 to hit generates another hit with bolters (not generating more from those).

 

Auto-take for hurricane bolters on those storm ravens now.

[Panzer]

holy :cuss ... the chapter tactic together with the warlord trait makes Imperial Fists the kings of Cities of Death. Those guys surely know how to defend Terra. o_O

[Acebaur]

 

Strategem from Warhammer TV:

 

Bolter Drill:

 

Any 6 to hit generates another hit with bolters (not generating more from those).

 

Auto-take for hurricane bolters on those storm ravens now.

 

 

As if they weren't already in 8th? ;)

[G8Keeper]

I might switch projects to my Fists now, currently working on DA.  This could get messy.

[Dosjetka]

Damn. I'll freely admit that I was a little underwhelmed by the Chapter Tactic on its own but this... damn. Today is a good day to be an Imperial Fist. :tu:

[Charlo]

I think a good thing to remember too is that ALL space marines Troops choices get Objective Secured as long as you are battleforged too.