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Chapter Focus - Iron Hands

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#101
Iron Father Ferrum

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Don't forget the 5+ FNP stratagem.


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#102
Shuul

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Don't forget the 5+ FNP stratagem.

 

But doesn't it work only against mortal wounds? it will not stop Lascannons unfortunately.



#103
Panzer

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Don't forget the 5+ FNP stratagem.

 

But doesn't it work only against mortal wounds? it will not stop Lascannons unfortunately.

 

Lol where did you read that? FnP like rules work against any form of damage

So if you get hit and wounded by a Lascannon which then passes your armor and invul saves, the opponent rolls like 4 damage and then you roll 4d6 to try to prevent those 4 damage.

(Note: FnP like abilities work against DAMAGE not against wounds like armor and invul saves!)


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#104
Shuul

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Don't forget the 5+ FNP stratagem.

 

But doesn't it work only against mortal wounds? it will not stop Lascannons unfortunately.

 

Lol where did you read that? FnP like rules work against any form of damage

So if you get hit and wounded by a Lascannon which then passes your armor and invul saves, the opponent rolls like 4 damage and then you roll 4d6 to try to prevent those 4 damage.

(Note: FnP like abilities work against DAMAGE not against wounds like armor and invul saves!)

 

Actually, this specific stratagem is only against mortal wounds. Please re-read.

 

http://imgur.com/YKwR3Md


Edited by Shuul, 02 August 2017 - 01:43 PM.


#105
Panzer

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Don't forget the 5+ FNP stratagem.

 

But doesn't it work only against mortal wounds? it will not stop Lascannons unfortunately.

 

Lol where did you read that? FnP like rules work against any form of damage

So if you get hit and wounded by a Lascannon which then passes your armor and invul saves, the opponent rolls like 4 damage and then you roll 4d6 to try to prevent those 4 damage.

(Note: FnP like abilities work against DAMAGE not against wounds like armor and invul saves!)

 

Actually, this specific stratagem is only against mortal wounds. Please re-read.

 

I see, my bad then. I don't have the Codex yet and assumed it's just a simple 5+ FnP like any other.


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#106
Timur

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If you want grade A Beefcake, our Captain on bike w/ shield eternal is still where it's at.  The glory days of the chain and IWND/FNP are gone.  Sob.  But, a Cap. w/ 12" move, TH, SS (3++) turned to shield eternal (incoming damage halved), Iron Resolve (2d6+ Wd save & 7 Wds.), is still the way to go for spreading bubble love, hammer smacking, and dmg. eating for a reasonable cost.  This is without forgeworld or rules issues.



#107
Shuul

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My personnel go for our Captain is Axe of Medusa instead of TH, its cheaper and quite powerful. From my experience Captain on bike usually die from guns like heavy bolter and assault cannon, so multiple damage guns are not the big issue for taking shield eternal. (you should not really put this biker in his own in the field, cover him with other bikers or landspeeders.

 

Edit: also, im usually using Techmarine with conversion beamer and Iron Hands warlord trait, works like a charm.


Edited by Shuul, 02 August 2017 - 03:36 PM.


#108
Timur

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@ Shuul I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk, as your opinion has been ganged up on on this thread, but....

That Cap. in that set up has survived as well as any of my dreadnoughts, and catches lascannons like a boss w/ the shield eternal. He can't be targeted most of the time, as he is behind a dread or a razorback, and I will charge him into combat (12" movement) If I get scared of incoming fire. Not like he doesn't like to be in CC anyways. He's not Smash :cuss er anymore, but It's what I got to work with.

I agree, Axe of Medusa is a sweet free weapon. I use it on my techmarine when the Cap. is not on the field (low points).

Edited by Iron Father Ferrum, 02 August 2017 - 04:24 PM.


#109
Shuul

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Well, i did not say that this Cap. setup is bad or anything :)
I just prefer it with axe of medusa, and thats it. I totally see how this makes Cap. very survivable, and will certainly use it occasionally.



#110
Teun135

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Different strokes for different folks. Luckily you aren't limited to one relic per army or anything, spend a CP and take both.


Edited by Teun135, 02 August 2017 - 10:38 PM.

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#111
The_son_of_Dorn

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Primaris marines vs space marine.

My money is on the veterans over the new bloods.

My alternate Heresy http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326705-another-alternate-heresy-with-no-fallen-primarchs/

 

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#112
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I actually use Intercessors to stand and secure home objective. They work perfectly well for this with their 30inch firing distance (or take stalker bolters and pretend to be a mini-devastators), also do not forget about aux. grenade launcher, it is quite powerful thing.



#113
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So far the only Primaris I found interesting enough to consider including are Aggressors with Flamer because they are just awesome and Intercessors with either the Rapid Fire or the Stalker Bolter for holding midfield/backfield objectives.

For everything else I'd rather take regular Space Marines. Didn't give the Repulsor any real thought yet tho and the Redemptor Dread would be an autoinclude anyway since I love Dreads and really like its design as well. :P


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#114
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   Played some more w/ Redemptor Dreads last night.  I guess they are primaris, but since they are dreads I barely notice.  I am liking them so far, as the # of shot kicked out per pt. spent on them seems really high.  I haven't made a spreadsheet or anything, but that's how it feels after maybe 6-7 games with a proxied one.  The stat line is definitely an issue seeing as how they start as BS 3+, but the techmarine is usually good for keeping the stats up.  For some reason it almost always works out to needing just one wound added to get good stats back.  I may actually take a second TM on bike @ 2k points over the librarian.

 

  We've been discussing how to maximize our CT: It seems obvious that dreads are great for that, How bout other primaris units?   The Redemptor is a yes vote from me but that's obvious cause it's a dread.

 

Anyone noticing any synergy with other primaris? 

 

I haven't looked at their rules hard because I want to utilize models I have first.  Are other primaris marines 3 or more wounds?

 

Anyone using lieutenants?

 

I personally think the fluff for primaris marines is awful, and the idea that IH's would have them as ridiculous, but, If some of those new units really appealed to me I would just convert them as heavily modified marines.  Just like how someone inspired me to make converted termies into assault centurions cause I hate those models. 

 

Also In regards to razorbacks: 1 CP for relentless is butter for assault cannons, I could see it being very nice if you had to move your lasbacks.  Does anyone use las-plas?  I never do, but is that a stand back platform? or one that moves up like the assautback.  Las-plas has always confused me, I've never used them in 4 editions, but I'm looking to squeeze in a few lascannon these days, as I'm starting to run into knights and big stompy eldar robots now.



#115
DJMoose

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Also In regards to razorbacks: 1 CP for relentless is butter for assault cannons, I could see it being very nice if you had to move your lasbacks.  Does anyone use las-plas?  I never do, but is that a stand back platform? or one that moves up like the assautback.  Las-plas has always confused me, I've never used them in 4 editions, but I'm looking to squeeze in a few lascannon these days, as I'm starting to run into knights and big stompy eldar robots now.

 

All of my Razorbacks are twin lascannon.  Which is fantastic now for putting extra lascannon pressure on opponents.  While they can be used for backfield support and objective grabbing with a squad inside, my plan is to move them up to mid-field, unload some marines near objectives or cover, and put out the hurt.  I suppose a 115pt cost for a twin-las razorback is justified considering the buff they got, even though I am still lamenting the point increase.

 

The problem I have with the Las/Plas right now is the wording that makes it destroy itself with overcharge.  A mortal wound would make much more sense. 

But why pay 45pts for a las/plas when for 5 more pts you could have a twin lascannon.


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#116
Shuul

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Also In regards to razorbacks: 1 CP for relentless is butter for assault cannons, I could see it being very nice if you had to move your lasbacks.  Does anyone use las-plas?  I never do, but is that a stand back platform? or one that moves up like the assautback.  Las-plas has always confused me, I've never used them in 4 editions, but I'm looking to squeeze in a few lascannon these days, as I'm starting to run into knights and big stompy eldar robots now.

 

All of my Razorbacks are twin lascannon.  Which is fantastic now for putting extra lascannon pressure on opponents.  While they can be used for backfield support and objective grabbing with a squad inside, my plan is to move them up to mid-field, unload some marines near objectives or cover, and put out the hurt.  I suppose a 115pt cost for a twin-las razorback is justified considering the buff they got, even though I am still lamenting the point increase.

 

The problem I have with the Las/Plas right now is the wording that makes it destroy itself with overcharge.  A mortal wound would make much more sense. 

But why pay 45pts for a las/plas when for 5 more pts you could have a twin lascannon.

 

 

Las-plas is great to cover backfield units, usuallyI have a foot captain there, so overheating is not a problem really.

Consider that at rapid fire range it can dish out 4 shots of S8 AP-3 and D2, that is great against deepstriking terminators and inceptors. And if something else is depstriking (scions etc) you dont really need to overcharge.



#117
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With the combo of "Unyielding Ancient" for our Ven Dreads, "Iron Resolve" for our Characters, combined with "Flesh is Weak for all of the above and Infantry. Shouldn't one of our Chapter foci be to spam as many Techmarines and Apothecaries as we can get? Apothecaries repair our Infantry, Characters (and Techmarines) and the Techmarines repair our Vehicles and Dreads? Using multiples of these guys would give us back an equivalent of "It Will Not Die" across the army.

The other is to look for ways to stack "Flesh is Weak"

If we could also find ways to give Infantry and Vehicles some form of "Relentless" so we don't get the penalty for advancing while firing Heavy Weapons, that would be icing on the cake!🍻

#118
Iron Father Ferrum

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That's what I've been doing.  I take Ven Dreads to get two FNP rolls on them, and I take Iron Resolve to pull an extra wound and a second FNP roll on my Shield Eternal-equipped Captain (he's not quite Gorgon's Chain-level of immortal, but about the closest you can get).  There is also a stratagem that lets you ignore the heavy weapon movement penalty on vehicles only that I put to good use on my Dreadnoughts, too.


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#119
lhavoc

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The downside of that stratagem is that it only works on one vehicle for one turn. That could add up to a lot of CP for only some selective gain 😩

#120
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True, you have to prioritize.  It's not hard though.  In my last game, it was easy.  First turn Terminators dropped into my backfield.  They were the priority target, so I dropped that stratagem on my Ven Dread with overcharged plasma cannon firing into them.  The next turn, I needed to blow up a Rhino, so I wanted to make sure the lascannons on a different Ven Dread hit, so that one got the loving.


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#121
Timur

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I usually blow 2-3 CP in my first shooting turn.  It's important to get your wounds in before your force gets degraded and to start taking wounds off the opposition.

 

Therefore, allowing for terrain or mission, I use the IH strat to make my dreads or assaultbacks more accurate on the move.  I will also make a dread into a re-roll capt. for a phase, if I have no captain (low points), or cappy's busy.

 

Make your list give you points. or use the one's you got wisely, CP are the new thing for this ed.