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Chances and thoughts on Deathwatch codex in 8th?


Nurgleprobe

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Hello all.
 
Well the title basically sets the subject already, but again, how do you think our chances are for getting our very own book in 8th?
Not sure how popular DW have been overall (selling pretty well in my area, but the second hand market is also filled with them so). 
 
Or will we end up with a Inquisition Codex this time around with DW being a part of that? I wouldn't really mind it, seeing as I love the feel of a mixed inquisition force. But also means that we won't get "as much" for our Black Armored marines. Also... DW probably won't be prioritized as is, so we may and up getting our Codex very late. :( 
 
And may as well throw in (when it's being discussed all over the plays), what do you think our Chapter Specific rules will be? 
Will the SIA just become a rule for DW keyword units instead of being a ability as it is now?
 
 


 

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Hello all.
 
Well the title basically sets the subject already, but again, how do you think our chances are for getting our very own book in 8th?
Not sure how popular DW have been overall (selling pretty well in my area, but the second hand market is also filled with them so). 
 
Or will we end up with a Inquisition Codex this time around with DW being a part of that? I wouldn't really mind it, seeing as I love the feel of a mixed inquisition force. But also means that we won't get "as much" for our Black Armored marines. Also... DW probably won't be prioritized as is, so we may and up getting our Codex very late. :sad.:
 
And may as well throw in (when it's being discussed all over the plays), what do you think our Chapter Specific rules will be? 
Will the SIA just become a rule for DW keyword units instead of being a ability as it is now?
 
 

 

 

We will 100% get a codex.

 

That being said realistically it won't be anytime soon. 

 

Either we get one early and it is just a SM vanilla with half the pages torn out or towards the middle of next year with deathwatch exclusive things as they would spend time on it.

 

SIA won't become a chapter tactic as they are a special rule given to specific units aka not all infantry/bikes and dreads.

 

If i was to guess what we would get it would be reroll 1s to wound or something along those lines like we got from formations in 7th.

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I think everyone loves the idea of DW, the reality of the army seems to have been that they were quite a challenge to play and win with, which might explain both good sales and a strong 2nd hand market.

I suspect a codex will be forthcoming, but it won't be a priority. I'd expect IG, Chaos and pretty much all the Xenos to be published before a new book for DW.

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Pretty much, I got plenty of time to wait. 

 

Special Issue Ammo is an ability Deathwatch Marines generally have, so we may at least expect to see the abilities listed on their sheets when the codex becomes available. 

 

A part of me expects to see the revision of Mission Tactics and a Black Spear Strike Detachment. But what I hope to no longer see are formations requiring a specific combination of units in a Kill Team as those things are a pain to work with and are hardly beneficial to me in the battlefield. 

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Mixed Kill Teams getting deep strike would be pretty decent. It doesn't solve the movement issue, but would make for some pretty nifty situations. It's at least more interesting than reroll 1s.

 

The half force must be in field thing limits it enough as to not have it be OP.

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I think everyone loves the idea of DW, the reality of the army seems to have been that they were quite a challenge to play and win with, which might explain both good sales and a strong 2nd hand market.

 

 

More like they were just flat, uninspiring and shockingly limited in options. I was beyond psyched for the DW release, as they've been such a cool concept ever since Artemis first rocked up in the Inquisitor days. But all my enthusiasm had bled away before I finished my first box of dudes. I wanted tooled up SM special forces with all kinds of funky options. What I got was sternguard with one standout weapon, and a whole library of frustrating 'why can't I take this option' types design decisions. What had the opportunity to be an immense, characterful release full of fun toys became probably the most anaemic and disappointing release I've experienced in 20-odd years of the GW hobby. And the 8th ed index didn't nothing to change my mind.

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It's a shame that DW weren't as well-treated as we'd have wanted in the Index, but at this point we're in the same boat with every other army waiting for its codex.  Don't get me wrong, I'd like to have GW give us the attention they've rendered to C: SM and eventually C: CSM and DG in particular, but reality says we'll be pushed out a bit for the "popular guys".  In the meantime, we'll have to use flexibility and a bit of grit to get through the tough part until our glorious return, right?  :D

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I was kind of sceptical of DW getting new book quickly, but if GK get one now because no additions are planned to their models, the same should be true for DW (seeing whole range is brand new and all). Also, GW just did DW primaris marines in official art which is a huge point towards new Codex coming soon otherwise why would they bother?

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads/K3ns3JDOGE2asjf/Primaris-week-3/239fhfght_ENG_Primaris_Marines_Release_03_July_22nd.pdf

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Thinking back on the pattern of release orders, the Deathwatch may come last out of the entire Space Marine line of Codices. I have no qualms with waiting as mentioned before but I honestly would like to expect the following:

 

1) Include every character, including Kill Team Cassius, into the mix along with their own unique abilities that a Kill Team can benefit from. 

2) A refined version of Mission Tactics

3) I am going to assume we may have Primaris transports to accomodate the Reivers. 

4) Assuming we do not have access to Primaris transports, provide upgrades to existing vehicles (at a point cost) to accomodate Primaris marines. 

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Considering the alpha strike beheading focus Deathwatch is supposed to have I hope that we get a stratagem that allows targeting characters in shooting phase even if another unit is closer.

 

Other than that I would appreciate a stealth/sniper specialists unit, like a Killmarine with Infiltrate, camo cloak and Stalker Bolter.

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I don't think DW will be out any time soon. They'll prioritize the other Chapters first, but they can't ignore the Xenos and Chaos for that long either. In the latest community post, they say "Hey, any one of you special Chapters can use the regular Space Marine codex!", which further suggests a delay.

 

I can't think of a good fit between DW and Primaris though. Inceptors are nice, but so insanely priced. Most other things need a transport, but the only thing that can take them seems to the Repulsor and it's looking to cost nearly as much as a LRC. Reivers are ok, but it's a hard choice between the carbine or the combat knife (damn pistol). I'm hoping the Redemptor is decently priced the most. Actually, points are right there, lol.

Edited by Moostick
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From what I've seen in the SM codex leaks the hellfire rounds for HB have a new rule :

 

Instead of doing 3 shots roll one single die. If you hit you cause d3 mortal wound on the targeted unit...

 

Seems like a nice up for the hellfire if we get it in our new codex...

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Well fluff wise wouldn't the Primaris Deathwatch marines just be "their chapter" Primaris Marines that are doing a tour with the Deathwatch? So it wouldn't likely have Blackshields as Primaris.
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I think that deathwatch has a pretty good chance of being early for a few of reasons. 

 

1) I think they want to space out marine releases to keep filling in the primaris line, and deathwatch would use the more standard stuff. I fully expect primaris death company when BA come out, Wulfen :unsure.:  with wolves, etc. (Dark Angels may not get something cause I don't think they'd trust them lol.

 

2) Its a new army and it never really had its day in the sun. People started the hobby because of them, you want those people to stay customers you have to at least pretend to support them. 

 

3) GW seriously underestimated demand for the fraction. GW needs to see if its a fluke, or if they have a cash cow.

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I've written a long snail mail letter to GW on Deathwatch costing and the general way the bits are put together

 

I currently have plenty of time and thought a hand written plea would more than likely get read.

 

The main brunt of the letter is to point out the inconsistencies with paying for Veteran + SIA then swapping out bolters / pistols that can't fire SIA but still paying SIA premium on the basic Deathwatch Marine.

That makes any form of purchase that swaps out SIA for a weapons option still bearing a Tax

 

I did some examples 

 

The worst was Vanguard Vets a squad of 5 with 2 sets of lightning claws 2 storm shields / Chainswords +1 power weapon / bolt pistol is 50 points more expensive than their SM equivalent for that you get 1 SIA bolt pistol shot over the standard squad.

 

We all know your not going to take a shotgun ever anymore standard cost +4 points is silly, I made the point that its not the +4 points for the shotgun its the fact your paying again for wargear you just can't use in SIA.

 

With the issue of the SM Codex they have to fix the fundamental model cost and make SIA relevant and appropriate, currently I'm using -2 ammo 90% of the time, Has anyone used the ignores cover ammo?

Edited by SnakeChisler
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My prediction:

 

Special Issue Ammo will get better - but will become a Stratagem. We'll get various kinds of bolters, and each ammo type will be a Stratagem, to reflect their limited availability.

 

I sure hope not. That sounds absolutely terrible and would outright ruin DW that we might as well be vanilla marines.

 

Some initial leaks in points changes in SM Codex 8th that sounds like it'll have an effect on us

 

Sternguard -1 point on bolter (we better see a significant point reduction or remove the tax on changing weapons, or this is complete bs)

Inceptors -15 points (might be worth it now)

Several HQs are now cheaper with very few higher as well

Drop pods -10 points (possibly worth it now?)

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It might end up being awesome, especially if Veterans get better bolters.

 

Hellfire rounds might do mortal wounds etc etc.

 

Can't look at it in vacuum, but special ammo is a Stratagem for Codex heavy bolters.

 

I can see similar. Spend a CP to ignore cover and shoot extra shots (Dragonfire).

 

Spend a CP to turn every bolter into overcharged Plasma (Vengeance).

 

Spend a CP to make single shots causing mortal wounds (Hellfire).

 

Kraken as standard, probably.

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I would straight up quit DW and just play a vanilla SM army with mass Sternguards if that happens. With the limited CP and looking at all the other strategems, i doubt anyone would waste CP on something like SIA per unit/model. I wouldn't even consider it a strategic move and it to be a complete trap option.
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...a whole library of frustrating 'why can't I take this option' types design decisions. What had the opportunity to be an immense, characterful release full of fun toys became probably the most anaemic and disappointing release I've experienced in 20-odd years of the GW hobby. And the 8th ed index didn't nothing to change my mind.

 

 

What "why can't I take this?" options do you mean? 

I'm only new to DW in 8th ed, but to me it looks like nearly any model in a killteam can take nearly any weapon or upgrade? 

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