Help with dealing with Dark Eldar

[Nharvey89]

Hiya guys,

 

Looking to call upon the wealth of experience from the pack.

 

So managed to get games against a fair few types of army and not having too much trouble. That is unt it comes to Dark Eldar (and so any other raider style list, if I faced them) with all of their flyers and ranged I'm struggling to find a way to beat them with the Wolves, it does feel like they are one of the tougher match ups for us.

 

How do you guys deal with them?

 

Thank you in advance.

[Kasper_Hawser]

May I know what kind of army you bring? Their vehicles are very weak vs heavy weapons, generally being toughness 6 or even 5 for venoms I think.

 

If you're using a melee Thunderwolf focus army, then I can see where you might struggle. Against Dark Eldar, you will need to get out your Long Fangs or MSU Grey Hunters with Razorbacks for tiether Lascannon or Assault Cannon. The Assault Cannon will mow down their units on 2+, and even hurt their raiders on 4+.

 

Basically, capitalize on heavy weapons rather than melee, which is where Dark Eldar shines. But don't underestimate their "lance weaponry" which are also very damaging to rhinos and razorbacks. But we should have more wounds and a better armour save.

[Brother Hellion]

May I know what kind of army you bring? Their vehicles are very weak vs heavy weapons, generally being toughness 6 or even 5 for venoms I think.

 

If you're using a melee Thunderwolf focus army, then I can see where you might struggle. Against Dark Eldar, you will need to get out your Long Fangs or MSU Grey Hunters with Razorbacks for tiether Lascannon or Assault Cannon. The Assault Cannon will mow down their units on 2+, and even hurt their raiders on 4+.

 

Basically, capitalize on heavy weapons rather than melee, which is where Dark Eldar shines. But don't underestimate their "lance weaponry" which are also very damaging to rhinos and razorbacks. But we should have more wounds and a better armour save.

What is your thoughts on bringing our flyers against these guys?  I'd imagine they waste a snot ton of raiders in a turn of shooting.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Our flyers would be death to them. Even with just two twin Heavy Bolters, that's 12 shots (six shots each) of S5 wounding T6 on 5s, almost as good as an Assault cannon. Add the Hellfrost and Lascannon, which now can fire in all directions and at whoever they want AND Power of the Machine Spirit enabling heavy weapons to fire without penalty...... 

 

..... honestly I haven't tested, and I have to be mindful that the Dark Eldar flyers like Razorwings would most likely down a Stormwolf/fang. But the amount of firepower both Storm variants can put out is simply staggering, therefore I firmly recommend against Dark Eldar.

 

Maybe skimp on the Long Fangs and invest in the Stormwolf with twin multimelta. That's 2 X 2 shots of multi melta which can go two directions in addition to two lascannon shots. Given vehicles have lots of wounds though, I focus half of the weapons on one target and the other another. The hellfrost can either go to hordes or be insurance incase the multimeltas/lascannons fail the job.

 

Bear in mind even if they don't kill outright, the damage should be enough to cripple their transports/ravagers in movement and BS. I'm not sure if their BS decreases though, but less movement will make their flying boats waddling pigs in the end.

[Bulwyf]

I've found that lascannons on razorbacks are a cheap but powerful way to deal with pesky ranged units.

[Nharvey89]

I think that's where the problem lies, I'm currently at around 2500 of models and it's mostly designed to murder lol. Just putting together a Stormwolf now. And I have the spare parts to stick together a second LF unit, with 2 heavy bolters and plasma. As I don't have the RB I think I have will try next time using the storm wolf to hold some goodies reducing my drop to secure first turn. Then take all the ranged heavy I can muster. Cheers guys.

[Kasper_Hawser]

You can also Drop Pod and murder them straight away with melta, plasma, and even bolters. Chuck a combi flamers for when they charge and the DE player will be on the backfoot. 

 

Remember as marines we have to focus fire due to our low numbers. Focus your strength at one point, don't make the mistake of spreading your firepower all over the board.

 

Another thing we definitely have advantage is psykers. Simple smite is enough for a few mortal wounds. Not sure what in the DE arsenal has mortal wounds though.

[lonewolf81]

My brother plays dark eldar and uses 2 xrazorwing (dark lances), 3x venoms with 5 man kabalites inside, 2xravager (dark lances), 2 squads grotesques of 4 with 2 hemonculus as HQs.

He has beaten me many times with my wolves but next time i am bringing the following :

 

we play 1500 points

 

Vanguard detachment

 

190 logan

 

72 5x scouts (1xmelta)

 

72 5x scouts (1xmelta)

 

235 5xwolfguard bikers (5xstormbolters,5xstorm shields, 1xthunder hammer on leader)

 

300 5xwulfen (4xTH/SS, 1xclaws on leader)

 

200 2xRazrobacks (twin assault cannons)

 

150 5xLongfangs (3xlascannons)

 

281 1xstormfang gunship (helfrost destructor, 2x stromstrike, 2xtwin heavy bolters)

 

 

 

TACT

 

Scouts play the role of troops they can either deploy in the razorbacks or behind enemy lines, longfangs hag a ruin and shoot their lascannons, bikers and wulfen rush forward. Stormfang provide fire support. The combo here is to get everything together and then deep strike logan in the middle. Then you get 40 bolter shots from bikers in 12", 24 shots from assault cannons razorbacks and 12 shots from stormfangs heavy bolters which reroll every fail to hit. You also get decent anti tank from stormfang and longfangs who already reroll ones on their own + the melta from the scouts for that extra punch. Stormshields provide a bit of survuvability and wulfen + logan+ bikers create a good assault force. You can also increase your chance to play first by deploying the scouts in the razorbacks.

Edited July 20, 2017 by lonewolf81

[Bulwyf]

I would put twin lascannons on the razorbacks. It does good damage and forces them to focus fire on them saving shots on your Wulfen and other units.

[Garreck]

Lascannons only perform marginally better at toughness 6, and the assault cannons will massively outperform shooting at units of single wound models. Assault cannons also win in points efficiency. If your enemy thinks they can ignore assault cannon razorbacks, advantage: you.

[Bulwyf]

I use Bjorn with his assault cannon for that. Having twin lascannons on RBs makes people take notice real quick.

[Baluc]

Venoms have nightshield and flickerfields, -1 to hit and 5+ invuln. Assault Cannons are where it's at. 

[Brother Hellion]

Long as you stand still to hit them. I think taking a combination of assault and lascannon on razorbacks should help to eliminate targets. Heard the rumors about them being more savage then orks in close combat so it would be best to keep one's distance.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Just had another thought: Autocannon dreads or Predator Autocannons. Both pump out a lot of shots AND damage. And they don't need to move around that much.