Codex wishes

[Gen.Steiner]

The Sisters of Battle operate on the ships granted or gifted to the Ecclesiarchy. They don't have their own ships - the one in Daemonifuge, if it does directly belong to the OoOML, is going to be an exception.

I cannot see them having in-built air-support. It doesn't match their role - they are the armed wing of the Ecclesiarchy; they guard pilgrim routes, temples, churches and cathedrals, they take part in Wars of Faith and Crusades; they primarily fight low-level insurgent wars and work alongside PDFs and the Imperial military as a whole. If they are fighting a foe that uses air power, they are almost always fighting alongside allied forces that use air power, be that the Navy or a local PDF aerospace command.

[Eddie Orlock]

... they primarily fight low-level insurgent wars and work alongside PDFs and the Imperial military as a whole. ...

From my readings of cold-war era African conflicts, some Vietnam journals, a bit in the Boer wars, and playing lots of 'counter insurgency' wargames what I'll tell you is that air-cav is a Big Deal. Furstest with the Mostest is a thing. Setting aside that 'victory' is usually a matter of hearts and minds and all the 'fire brigades' do is prevent defeat.

 

If this is the customary role you have in mind I'd expect to see two things: The equivalent to the current helicopter, Valkyries, Vultures, Blackstars, or similar as an organic unit asset; and local militia backed by militia training cadres. It's totally not the Ecclesiarch's men at arms if it's just local rabble inspired to fight for the Emperor of their own volition. Such they got handed a crate of laser rifles and some Elite drill abots trained them in how to not run away, but it's not like their being mobilised for shipment off world.

[Gen.Steiner]

I see the Sisters not so much as Air-Cav (that's the PDF or Guard) but as police detachments or static/semi-mobile defensive forces.

So, for a comparison with 'real-world' tactics - the Sisters would be like the British African Police in Rhodesia rather than the Selous Scouts or the Rhodesian Light Infantry.

[Eddie Orlock]

Even the BSAP wound up with a Reserve Air Wing, and they weren't stomping about in power armour with gobs of church tithes to burn.

 

Okay, they were pretty light duty, but the intensity of action and militarisation of police forces in the dark future likely excuses an escalation in hardware. We could dial it back to a squadron of Arvus lighters with an advanced avionics package mounted. Still, rapid deployment capabilities are part of how to have a small group project power over a wide region.

 

It's in the category that I fully expect Arbites to have a Valk variant to stand analogue to our contemporary police helicopters and cesnas. Something a step up from the craft embedded in with the local PDF to be consistent with arbite fluff that their gear is generally spec'd to be one layer better on average than a 'typical' worlds pdf muster as a measure to discourage revolt. It's why Arbites have Repressors, their Rhino chassis is considered a layer up from the more typical Chimera carrier in the same role.

[Beams]

I mean, don't the sisters need *something* to get from one side of the planet to the other?

[Ezr91aeL]

The Aquila Lander would be the perfect flyer for Ministorum troops (Sisters included). It have even wings that looks like the Seraphims' jump-pack and a dome similar to the Sororitas Rhino one. More than that it wasn't described as a truly military craft but as an armored and armed civilian craft, that would make it perfect for Ecclesiarchy. I really hope in a plastic kit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/BulldogUK/SharksAquilaLander1.jpg

[Beams]

Except the battle sisters are a military, so they'd most likely use military vehicles. Hence why they use Rhinos and not Goliath rock crushers

[Gen.Steiner]

OK, so I can get behind the idea of militarised Arvus Lighters and Aquila Landers, sure, but nothing heavier than that.

Also, I had no idea that the BSAP had an air wing, that's cool - thank you! :D

[dracpanzer]

Saw this on Dakka.

 

Give Celestians and Seraphim the ability to generate their own Act of Faith on a 4+. They can't use it on other units.

[Skaorn]

My concern with the flyers is that the FW and GW flyers that are currently available seem rather pedestrian for a group who operates with gear that is considered holy. I think adding anything from the current stock would feel kind of forced. Maybe a type of shuttle craft the Emperor used to get from ship to planet to meet a loyalist Primarch once or something so the Orders think they're suitable to transport relics and such. I'd go with Thrones for the name to tie the Emperor and the class of Angels together.

[Skaorn]

So here is another thing that might be interesting to explore, proper SoB heroes besides Celestine. I think I'd probably want a former Repentia who was absolved of her sins but still carries the sword. I'd also like one that kind of flaunts the wealth aspect with lots of high tech toys, but that's just me. One that functions as a priest would be nice too, because why do they need men to inspire. If they did something like my Reliquarian HQ suggestion (buy various relics they can activate with FP to have more direct, psychic power like effects) then having a named one would be good. Of course, they could do a sanctioned psycher too... (dives for cover)

[Servant of Dante]

Pfft. Sanctioned psyker Sister. That's point where I entirely give up on anything I'd like coming out of GW ever again.

 

I'd be up for non-warpmutant special characters for Sisters, though I'd rather just get back the ones we lost.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Atrus]

Would like to not suffer a knee-jerk nerf to our army.

Sisters have been doing well this edition no argument and in spite of their rarity on hitting the table around the world, im surprised by the amount of crying there is over sisters being powerful to the point of people suggesting thing that outright neuter our army.

 

I dont want GW bowing to the masses and nerfing us because a handful of people who actually versed sisters for once in their lives got beat by the red headed step cousins.

 

...would also like a limited edition release drinking mug for us to collect all the tears and enjoy :

 

okay had my fun. But seriously, dont want kneejerk nerf.

[Beams]

I mean, part if it is most sisters players had to learn how to be use a sub par army, while some be players coasted on having amazing armies. Now that we are decent, and some of these previous armies are no longer OP, people dont know how to react.

[Eddie Orlock]

... I think adding anything from the current stock would feel kind of forced. ...

And in this modern age of bespoke kits it wouldn't happen. Certainly not from the 'new' citadel. Back in the late Nineties and early Aughts there might've been a chance in an alternate universe that had them pushing aircraft into the game in that era.

 

The value to us in such a comparison is really about what role we could imagine these craft in in the background. So, we draw analogues. If we all get comfy with a conceptual frame, then we can start fleshing it out.

 

So, where I last followed this drift, we we're looking at militarising the upper echelon of 'civilian' craft. Of course, 'flying symbol' carries a certain appeal in the modern era, so perhaps we're looking at some kind of Arvus/Aquillia cross with a bulk wing/fuselage outline that would form the outline of a flur-de-lye. Now, armaments will need to honour the trinity, so presently I'm thinking a pair of underwing twin heavy bolters with the option to mount an incendiary bomb rack at the sacrifice of some transport capacity.

 

Now, including transport aircraft could be quite combo-riffic with Dominions. So I think we'd either need to find a way to cripple that or price accordingly.

 

Jumping back to workshoping appearance, can anyone here dig up some references to what might pass as a 'civilian' craft? Perhaps something from the Rogue Trader RPG? Skim the novels? Search the background of old artwork?

[Ezr91aeL]

Except the battle sisters are a military, so they'd most likely use military vehicles. Hence why they use Rhinos and not Goliath rock crushers

Yes, but probably the Aircraft Units would not be part of the Sisterhood but of the more generic Ecclesiarchy so "no man at arms" and the consequent "no military equipment". It would be similar to the case of Crusaders that are tecnically not soldiers but bodyguards (even if they goes in war very often).

[Beams]

 

 

Except the battle sisters are a military, so they'd most likely use military vehicles. Hence why they use Rhinos and not Goliath rock crushers

Yes, but probably the Aircraft Units would not be part of the Sisterhood but of the more generic Ecclesiarchy so "no man at arms" and the consequent "no military equipment". It would be similar to the case of Crusaders that are tecnically not soldiers but bodyguards (even if they goes in war very often).

No man at arm's allows them better weapons and armor (and arguably transports/tanks) than the actual imperial military (Astra Militarum) so I don't see how or why that would prevent them from having planes/helicopters.

[Skaorn]

I thought crusaders were not actually attached to the Ecclesiarchy, just people inspired to fight along side the SoB and who were better equipped than the militias.

 

I don't see why they couldn't get dedicated military craft when they can get equipment normally reserved for SM. The Ecclesiarchy can shell out for that kind of gear, I see no problem with combat aircraft, light skimmers, bikes, robot horses, etc. Doing it so it feels like a legitimate part of the army is the big trouble.

[Ezr91aeL]

I thought crusaders were not actually attached to the Ecclesiarchy, just people inspired to fight along side the SoB and who were better equipped than the militias.

 

I don't see why they couldn't get dedicated military craft when they can get equipment normally reserved for SM. The Ecclesiarchy can shell out for that kind of gear, I see no problem with combat aircraft, light skimmers, bikes, robot horses, etc. Doing it so it feels like a legitimate part of the army is the big trouble.

No Crusaders are an super-elite in Ecclesiarchy from a secretive sect known as "Cardinal's Crimson".

[Montford]

That sounds like they would be the enemies of the Musketeers!

 

 

Still holding out hope for a SEP/OCT release for Sisters. I've seen some interesting Codex wishes in this thread. :)

[Servant of Dante]

Well, afaik, Crusaders are not part of the Ecclesiarchy, but some cardinals use Crusaders as bodyguards (crimson guard). Same way DCA aren't actually part of the Ecclesiarchy.

[Skaorn]

Well, afaik, Crusaders are not part of the Ecclesiarchy, but some cardinals use Crusaders as bodyguards (crimson guard). Same way DCA aren't actually part of the Ecclesiarchy.

COOOOOBRAAAAAAAAAA!!! Sorry, force of habit.

 

Do people think crusaders, death cults, acro flagelents, and the like should be part of a SoB list?

[Servant of Dante]

 

Well, afaik, Crusaders are not part of the Ecclesiarchy, but some cardinals use Crusaders as bodyguards (crimson guard). Same way DCA aren't actually part of the Ecclesiarchy.

COOOOOBRAAAAAAAAAA!!! Sorry, force of habit.

 

Do people think crusaders, death cults, acro flagelents, and the like should be part of a SoB list?

 

Imo, they should be part of an Adetus Ministorum codex, since even though not technically part of the Ministorum they do mostly fight in it's name. We've never had a pure Adepta Sororitas codex, even Codex: Sisters of Battle had Ministorum Priests and Frateris Militia (which is cool).

 

If you mean an army list, then if you're doing purely Adepta Sororitas units, then Crusaders and DCA don't fit, but if you're doing the Ministorum as a whole, they're nice, fluffy additions to a list.

[dracpanzer]

I now have about twenty games of 8ed under my belt with our beloved Sisters. I have been trying A LOT of different combo's with every unit in the Dex. Dialogus is okay for Sister blobs and I actually like Repentia a lot more know than ever before and PenEngines running up behind a Dominion Repressor rush is just nasty.

 

Celestians are about the only unit I think needs to be fixed. I know the dex will bring changes, I just hope they make them better.

[Montford]

Well said Dracpanzer. Maybe we will see Celestians with chainswords and with Angelic Visage.  That might work out fairly well.. (Or Sarissas which work something like a chainsword rules-wise)