Imperial Fists in 8th - brainstorming thread

[Extropian]

Agreed. Its really an extra "layer" of reliability to a units damage output for a turn, in the same way as hit re-rolls and the like.

 

In fact, some maths based on 30 bolt shots (of whatever sort, doesn't matter) at 3+ BS:

 

No re-rolls, no Bolter Drill = 20 hits

No re-roll, Bolter Drill = 23 hits

Re-roll 1's, no bolter drill = 23 hits

Re-roll 1's, Bolter drill = 27 hits

Re-roll all misses, no bolter drill = 27 hits

Re-roll all misses, Bolter Drill = 31 hits

 

So it does start to add up as you stack re-rolls with it. Its a nice layering tool when you just want that little bit of extra damage.

[Verger]

It (Bolter Drill) could be utterly LETHAL with Aggressors in hand-to-hand if they're using their guns to shoot into it.  Especially with a Captain nearby.

[SgtOrion]

Tactical Terminators coming out of deepstrike might be a great way to utilize bolter drill. A unit of 10 with 2 assault cannons gets 32 bolter shots and 12 assault cannon. With Cyclones it's 40 Bolters! It's a pricey unit but power fists dropping in price helps take some of the edge off. If you want re-rolls drop Lysander in with them. 

[Nakuth]

So, I just got my codex and I notice that nowhere is it specified that Bolter Drill can only be used once per turn or once per phase. That means that if you have the CP, you can use it as many times as you want in the same turn. Could make for an interesting alpha strike-light variant.

[Lemondish]

So, I just got my codex and I notice that nowhere is it specified that Bolter Drill can only be used once per turn or once per phase. That means that if you have the CP, you can use it as many times as you want in the same turn. Could make for an interesting alpha strike-light variant.

I think only the universal ones have that once per phase limitation.

[Firepower]

3 Sternguard pod alpha strike with that strat... 

 

Though that would lead to blowing a lot of your command points very early in the game.

[Nakuth]

3 Sternguard pod alpha strike with that strat...

 

Though that would lead to blowing a lot of your command points very early in the game.

Could be worth it. Gives you the chance to decimate (or better) key units in your opponent's army, and potentially put them on the back foot.

 

Personally, I'm loving the idea of the Data Telemetry/Command Reroll/Bolter Drill combo.

1. Use an anti-armour Land Speeder to pop a transport/just generally do some damage to a troop or or other unit & get within 12" range.

2. Auto-hit with a Whirlwind thanks to Data Telemetry. Use a Command Reroll if necessary to maximise the number of shots.

3. Bolter Drill from a 10-man (or assault bolter Inceptor/Bolter Devastator Centurion) squad to finish the target, or all but reduce it's effectiveness.

 

Sure, it's 2-3 command points, but used well it can put you in an early commanding position.

[Firepower]

It does seem like an 8th edition game can be won or lost much more decisively in the opening turns than previously, meaning a solid bolter filled alpha strike could hit hard enough to decimate some armies and validate the early splurging on CP.  Not as scary as first turn charges, but still dangerous.

 

Fists are impressive enough that, had I the time and money, I would be slapping a contingent down along side the Templars.  Let them handle the shooting while the boys in black get stuck in where they belong

[Disruptor_fe404]

So, I just got my codex and I notice that nowhere is it specified that Bolter Drill can only be used once per turn or once per phase. That means that if you have the CP, you can use it as many times as you want in the same turn. Could make for an interesting alpha strike-light variant.

 

The limitation is not in the Codex, it's in the rulebook (and only for Matched Play!).

 

Page 215, 'Strategic Discipline':

The same Strategem cannot be used by the same player more than once during any single phase. This does not affect Strategems that are not used during a phase, such as those used 'before the battle begins' or 'at the end of a battle round'.

 

And Bolter Drill says it's only usable in the Shooting Phase.

[Nakuth]

 

 

So, I just got my codex and I notice that nowhere is it specified that Bolter Drill can only be used once per turn or once per phase. That means that if you have the CP, you can use it as many times as you want in the same turn. Could make for an interesting alpha strike-light variant.

The limitation is not in the Codex, it's in the rulebook (and only for Matched Play!).

 

Page 215, 'Strategic Discipline':

The same Strategem cannot be used by the same player more than once during any single phase. This does not affect Strategems that are not used during a phase, such as those used 'before the battle begins' or 'at the end of a battle round'.

 

And Bolter Drill says it's only usable in the Shooting Phase.

That's where it is. Thank you, we had trouble finding it at my local GW yesterday. Good to get some clarification.

[KGatch113]

It (Bolter Drill) could be utterly LETHAL with Aggressors in hand-to-hand if they're using their guns to shoot into it.  Especially with a Captain nearby.

 

 

I think Bolter drill will be best used with a squad such as intercessors with stalker bolt rifles or centurions with heavy bolters,  and good rerolls. You need the extra hits, the ability to wound, and the ability to cause damage to maximize the Stratagem.

 

I'm more intrigued how our chapter tactics are working for people. TBH, I think the Ultramarine CT seem more Ifish than Ultramarines. Being able to fall back and shoot represents being stubborn and good with bolt guns, not to mention the +1 to leadership.

[KGatch113]

So, I just got my codex and I notice that nowhere is it specified that Bolter Drill can only be used once per turn or once per phase. That means that if you have the CP, you can use it as many times as you want in the same turn. Could make for an interesting alpha strike-light variant.

 

 

Not to start a discussion on this, but all of the other Stratagems are quite clear that it affects one unit or vehicle or character. Bolter Drill says it applies to models with bolt weapons, but never mentions unit. I guess someone should start a separate thread on this?

[Kisada]

What about Killshot Stratagem?  

 

Yes you need to take 3 predators .. but +1 to wound and damage vs monsters or vehicles for all 3 preds.  Opponent better hide their big stuff!

 

oh ... and its only 1 cp.

[Extropian]

Killshot is fantastic. It obviously require a serious investment in predators, but you can rely on them to delete enemy armour or monsters.

 

Quick math:

1 quad las Predator with a captain and Lt nearby does:

 

Against Rhinos/Razorbacks: 11 wounds

Against Landraider: 9 wounds

 

It's extremely brutal. If you have a chapter master nearby it's even more lethal. Enemy armour is going to explode...a lot.

[Lemondish]

 

So, I just got my codex and I notice that nowhere is it specified that Bolter Drill can only be used once per turn or once per phase. That means that if you have the CP, you can use it as many times as you want in the same turn. Could make for an interesting alpha strike-light variant.

 

 

Not to start a discussion on this, but all of the other Stratagems are quite clear that it affects one unit or vehicle or character. Bolter Drill says it applies to models with bolt weapons, but never mentions unit. I guess someone should start a separate thread on this?

 

 

This thread had some discussion about it, but the subject was dropped after no clear consensus could be reached: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336822-chapter-focus-imperial-fists/page-4

 

Definitely something we would want clear instructions on going forward (hopefully GW is listening) but for now just decide with your friendly opponent how to interpret it. 

[Extropian]

I would be beyond astonished if it turned out to affect more than the unit that was shooting. Certainly locally we'll be playing it as a single unit until the genuinely unlikely event of them ruling that it affects more.

[Lemondish]

I would be beyond astonished if it turned out to affect more than the unit that was shooting. Certainly locally we'll be playing it as a single unit until the genuinely unlikely event of them ruling that it affects more.

 

I think this will be the case for many, and the result will simply be final clarification of that concept. 

 

But the idea of it affecting all units in a detachment brought up some really neat imagery of a cascading drill that went from one end of the detachment to the other. On paper, the current one unit iteration seems pretty weak, but I wonder how people are enjoying it in action in real games. 

 

But as for more brainstorming - anybody else thinking of adding some fortifications to their list? I was thinking of a Bastion and a defense line. One to house some Hellblasters and the other for a durable gunline with larger units of Intercessors. They'd have a 2+ save while in cover, be protected from AP -1 weapons with the warlord trait, and have +1LD for any morale concerns. Hellblasters with heavy versions in the Bastion to protect them for several turns. 

[KGatch113]

After looking through the codex, almost all examples of Marines and their markings etc are done using Primaris Marines. I think going forward we will eventually see them replace the old mini Marines.

 

I've tried making a 2000 point army....4 squads of intercessors ( 30 guys total) and 3 squads of hell blasters ( 15 guys) 1 unit with heavy plasma Incinerators.

 

Plus some armor support, a captain and 3 lieutenants. So only about 50 guys, no transports. I just can't bring myself to play this army. I'm so used to dropping 60 marines with rerollable bolters and 2 rhinos with another 10 guys.  I hope I see more good ideas here, I'm out of them.

[KGatch113]

Spend the 3CP's to make Lysander the Chapter Master of the IF. Add a Centurion Dev squad, as big as possible, with heavy bolters. You can have upto 3 rounds of Bolter Drill...that's a ton of firepower, all rerolling to hits. 

 

Yeah, you could save th 3CP's and reroll 1's with Lysander, but you really do roll a ton of 2's for some reason....

 

Add in some Tac Squads in Razorbacks with twin assault cannons and horde armies will hate you.

 

Now to find a complement to Lysander to take out Wraithknights etc.

[valhalla130]

Is there any reason to have grav centurions in this edition for IF?  I purchased and built mine right before 8th edition came out and haven't touched them since.  And of course I glued them instead of magnetizing.

[Dorgoth]

 

So, I just got my codex and I notice that nowhere is it specified that Bolter Drill can only be used once per turn or once per phase. That means that if you have the CP, you can use it as many times as you want in the same turn. Could make for an interesting alpha strike-light variant.

 

 

Not to start a discussion on this, but all of the other Stratagems are quite clear that it affects one unit or vehicle or character. Bolter Drill says it applies to models with bolt weapons, but never mentions unit. I guess someone should start a separate thread on this?

 

 

Bolter Drill is in the FAQ:

 

Page 197 – Bolter Drill Change the first two sentences to read: ‘Use this Stratagem just before an Imperial Fists Infantry unit attacks in the Shooting phase. Until the end of the phase, each time you make a hit roll of 6+ for a model from that unit firing a bolt weapon, that model can immediately make another hit roll using the same weapon at the same target (these bonus attacks cannot themselves generate any further attacks).’

 

If Bolter drill affects to all the IF units would be a very good stratagem, and something that makes to play with IF.

[BitsHammer]

Anyone else feel like Storm of Fire feels like the default warlord trait for the army due to how many bullets we're trying to drown the opponent in?

[Dosjetka]

Yep, that is my default Warlord trait when I play Imperial Fists. :tu:

[BitsHammer]

Yep, that is my default Warlord trait when I play Imperial Fists.

It really should have been the Imperial Fists default one.