Prot Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) So I'm going to fire up this tactica because I caved in and pre-ordered two of these and I want us to have a good understanding of favourable loadouts for Ultra's (or marines in general I suppose). Here's what I do know: Heavy Onslaught Gatling Canon Range: 30 inches Type: Heavy 12 Strength: 5 AP: -1 Damage: 1 Onslaught Gatling canon Range: 24" Type: Heavy 6 Strength: 5 AP: -1 Damage: 1 Redemptor power fist Range: Melee Type: Melee Strength: x2 AP: -3 Damage: d6 Icarus rocket pods Range: 24 inches Type: Heavy d3 Strength: 7 AP: -1 Damage: 1 +1 to FLY units, -1 to non-FLY units Macro Plasma incinerator Range: 36 inches Type: Heavy d6 Strength: 8 AP: -4 Damage: 1 Overcharge: Range: 36 inches Type: Heavy d6 Strength: 9 AP: -4 Damage: 2 If 1 rolled to hit, takes a mortal wound Fragstorm Grenade Launcher Range: 18" Type: Assault d6 Strength: 4 AP: 0 Damage: 1 Heavy flamerStorm bolters The bad news is that this dread degrades from damage unlike the vanilla dread. I'm probably running a pair - perhaps with a Techpriest, and intend on being mobile with them. Hobby Note: Warhammer TV has uploaded a video on painting the Redemptor! Edited July 27, 2017 by Prot added paint tutorial Ishagu 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schultzhoffen Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 The plasma incinerator seems best. They're definitely durable but I'm unsure as to their points. How cost efficient they are will determine their usefulness. I do think that running two will give plenty of headaches to the enemy. Particularly if they flank Guilleman. Prot 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 22, 2017 Author Share Posted July 22, 2017 The plasma incinerator seems best. They're definitely durable but I'm unsure as to their points. How cost efficient they are will determine their usefulness. I do think that running two will give plenty of headaches to the enemy. Particularly if they flank Guilleman. I agree, but the heavy Onslaught is no slouch... that being said I was originally thinking of using my Gravis Captain with 3 CPs to upgrade for the re-roll to hit Aura (Not sure if I can try to refund these 3 CP's on a 5+). The Redemptors I assume are probably in the neighbourhood of... 230 a piece? Just a guess. This means I have save points on HQ's where I can. I still feel a Libby is vital in my meta (and I don't know the new powers yet.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 They need a Chapter Master's Aura or else moving them will render them all sorts of meh. Hitting on 4s with 18 Heavy Bolter shots? I'm already starting to think they could be good marching up the table alongside my Captain for rerolls. Maybe I'll give him the Chapter Master upgrade or run Calgar? That makes the 18 shots much more useful and the assault potential is always good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schultzhoffen Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Agreed. A re roll is essential. Probably even more so if you use plasma. Burning 3CPs to upgrade to Chapter Master could work (thereby saving points not running Guiileman), but you'll have precious few left for the rest of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fedratsailor Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 A Redemptor armed with the Heavy Onslaught, normal Onslaught, 2 storm bolters and the icarus pod costs 202, swap the main gun for the Plasma and your 5 points less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 A Redemptor armed with the Heavy Onslaught, normal Onslaught, 2 storm bolters and the icarus pod costs 202, swap the main gun for the Plasma and your 5 points less. Either set up is a bargain for what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I don't know about a bargain. I'm thinking much of the cost is the powerfist and strength 14, which for a shooting platform means it has some teeth if charged. What role is a Redemptor going to play? Is it a shooting platform with counterattack capacity, in which case it can operate close to your other support elements. Is it an assault unit, in which case what will you take to support it as when it moves it becomes limited in firepower. Character support can get expensive just to get the most out of a 200pts unit, so the trick is to ensure you're also getting the most out of the character. A Chapter Master/Captain with Vanguard/Terminators/Sternguard moving up the table alongside this can make for quite the hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) The plasma is actually cheaper than the Gatling Cannon. A Dread equipped with Plasma, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Rocket Pod and two Storm Bolters is only 197 points. Swapping the Plasma for the Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon puts it up to 202. This Dread is actually significantly better in CC than regular Dreads thanks to Str14 and D6 damage (although a bad roll could hurt it) Adding re rolls into the mix would boost it significantly. Edited July 23, 2017 by Ishagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 What is S14 doing better against that S12 isn't good enough? Large creatures of course but infantry and models up to T6 it performs the same. 197pts for a weapon that fires D6 shots that hit on a 4+ if the thing moved and only causes a single wound is pretty poor. The Heavy Onslaught cannon is superior by a long way. Think of it another way. Would you take a Leman Russ Punisher without Pask? Most would say no since it hits so feebly. That's what you got with the Redemptor without points investment in characters. I don't like hero-spamming around one part of the battlefield to hope for success. It seems that this Dreadnought can't operate on its own which is a shame with all our Dreadnoughts bar the Venerable and Contemptor. Of course if your tactics are to clump then the Redemptor is for you. I'm considering it for my footsloggers as I'm rolling a Captain amongst Tactical squads and he is great back up. I just don't want anyone to be told that this model is going to be the best thing since sliced Xenos when it actually requires careful army composition and use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 Now that I see the options and if Ishagu is reporting the right costs, that's better than I thought. I think the re-roll aura is our thing no matter if you love or hate Redemptors. I do play some pretty assaulty opponents and right now I feel like I always have to go to Reboute for that home base protection against the baddies.... Orks/Nids... they are terrifying this edition. The Redemptor -might- be the solution for a mid range, mid power shooting, and then counter assault the wave of attackers... and still be able to withdraw and unload again. I think our main tactic of being able to withdraw from CC and shoot (at a penalty) is already rewarding us for auras. These guys further encourage that. The Macroplasma is going to encourage Command Point use in certain situations, but again this gels with our traits because it might be refunded. Tactically speaking the set up of bookends with an aura allow a strong base protection but moving at 8" a turn and considering deployments now.... it's really not that long before these guys will be able to swing in CC. Against the 100+ conscript armies I've played I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to testing this. It might now work but you have to do more than shoot those conscripts up, you have to engage them, make the retreat back, and weather a billion flashlights, and repeat the process until they are backed right up and then the parking lot of tanks start becoming valid CC targets for the S14. Right now my Ultra's cannot engage that kind of army and it's incredibly frustrating. The bad side is I can see one of these guys replacing my Assault Bolter Inceptor squad which has been a very mediocre unit for more points. Ishagu 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) I'm primarily going to use the Dreads for their dakka against said hordes. I really like the look of the Plasma weapon but I'd rather run dedicated anti Tank/MC ranged units. That being said, it's so valuable to have units that are effective in close combat - it's why these Dreads are so impressive to me. That and the use of Chapter Tactics which really benefit them especially in our case. Strength 14 is actually more significant than it first appears; with the exception of a few Heavy tanks you are now wounding most things, including other Dreadnoughts, on a 2+. Edited July 23, 2017 by Ishagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I get auras are a thing, I really do and I love it. But I'm noticing a trend of people using all their armies within Auras for maximum benefit. I'm considering this, for Marines in particular, is a problem. You are essentially becoming predictable and clumping your army around a few models. Ultramarines in particular can get rerolls of 1s (or all dice for Tactical and Intercessor squads) for a mere 1 Command Point. We don't need to clump and in Maelstrom games that is a strength. Of course, the Redemptor can use said Command Point for rerolls of a 1, which is something I am considering along with a Captain tag team to protect my Tactical squads. I think, for my wedge of Tactical Marines and Cataphractii Terminators moving up the centre, a Redemptor can accompany a Contemptor for a solid battle line. My Captains will lead from the front and there will be a solid counter attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 Okay I just heard about a command point that I believe any marine force can use in game. Basically you use a command point during the game which we may get discounted and there is a six inch radius around the dread that allows the re roll of ones to hit. Like the captain aura. Now while any dread can do this the redemptor has quite the foot print and makes it not need as much babysitting. I don't know if I have the details right but it sounded encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Regarding this new Dreadnought and Auras, there's a Stratagem in the book thats called 'Wisdom of the Ancients', for 1CP a single dreadnought allows for units with the <Chapter> keyword to reroll 1s to hit. I am assuming that it also applies to Dreadnought itself which would certainly help with moving and firing stuff or overcharging plasmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 Regarding this new Dreadnought and Auras, there's a Stratagem in the book thats called 'Wisdom of the Ancients', for 1CP a single dreadnought allows for units with the <Chapter> keyword to reroll 1s to hit. I am assuming that it also applies to Dreadnought itself which would certainly help with moving and firing stuff or overcharging plasmas. Yup, that's the one. I do recall that was the name. I think I'll be using that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 That's quite nice actually. It means the Dread acts as a Captain for the Tactical Marines I'm surrounding him with and the Captain I planned to run with him can be a Lieutenant instead ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucidNinja Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 I haven't seen this stratagem in the leaked pages so far... Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Winter§EO got a review, you can pause it to check some stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Ultramarines Strategum, combined with the Wisdom of the Ancients one, combined with Lieutenants, means I'm buying a Redemptor. Also, because they neutered my Assault Cannon/twin Autocannons combo on the Venerable :( But new toys! Colour me convinced of the worth of a Redemptor now. Amen to cordial discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wako1302 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) I have not read the codex yet, or caught up with the new FAQs. I currently run 3 dreads as a Vanguard Detachment with a standard captain, how does this compare to taking 2 Redemptors instead. Total Wounds is roughly the same Attacks would be 4 less for the Redemptors Strength of Attacks would be 12 vs 14 BS & WS gets worse for the Redemptors The Redemptors can move further, but do start to slow down So a guess it just comes down to actual Firepower. The Assault Canon on a Dread is Strength 6 (3 dreads do 18 shots), the Heavy Onslaught Gatling Canon is Strength 5 (2 Redemptors do 24 shots). Seems to be a close decision unless I am missing something. fyi - One another note, can I just take an Army that is made up of 3 Vanguard Detachments - i.e. 9+ dreadnoughts and 3 HQs (captains) Edited July 24, 2017 by wako1302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 I have not read the codex yet, or caught up with the new FAQs. I currently run 3 dreads as a Vanguard Detachment with a standard captain, how does this compare to taking 2 Redemptors instead. Total Wounds is roughly the same Attacks would be 4 less for the Redemptors Strength of Attacks would be 12 vs 14 BS & WS gets worse for the Redemptors The Redemptors can move further, but do start to slow down So a guess it just comes down to actual Firepower. The Assault Canon on a Dread is Strength 6 (3 dreads do 18 shots), the Heavy Onslaught Gatling Canon is Strength 5 (2 Redemptors do 24 shots). Seems to be a close decision unless I am missing something. fyi - One another note, can I just take an Army that is made up of 3 Vanguard Detachments - i.e. 9+ dreadnoughts and 3 HQs (captains) If you do the points neutral swap of onslaught cannon in exchange for heavy flamer *each redemptor fires 18 str 5 AP -1 shots. So two redemptors is 36 shots. They still have a few other guns after that as well and their fists do d6 damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucidNinja Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 3 vanguards is fine also, until we know exact points I'm reserving judgement. I'm hoping redemptors are a decent choice for my pure primaris army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 I imagine the points in that comparison favours the Redemptor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 Still DYING to paint and use this. For me it's not the rules, it's simply the model. Please note the first post is updated with the Warhammer TV paint tutorial as well: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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