thepager Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Hello everyone, Just a quick thought/question. Anyone know why GW has consistently ignored the fact that the Fists have a chapter master. He is nowhere to be heard from or seen in the new codex and even in sentinels of terra from last edition, there was little mention. I would love to have a chapter master option similar to basically all of the other main codex chapters without using the +3CP tax. What do you all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wargamer Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I do think Chapter Masters should have been a purchasable choice, not a CP locked upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I would love to have a chapter master option similar to basically all of the other main codex chapters Well let's not get ahead of ourselves, it's 50/50 on who has their Chapter Master in the book. Ultras, Templars, Crimson Fists, Raven Guard all have theirs (and to be honest, Raven Guard are only included in that because Shrike got a lore-promotion since the last book). Everybody else is left out; spare a thought for the Iron Hands who still don't have a named character at all. I don't think every character named in the background actually needs rules of their own, although it would be nice to be able to represent them. I would have preferred the option to actually buy a generic Chapter Master outright and equip them via the normal ways, rather than it being tied to Command Points. Machine God 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepager Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 I would love to have a chapter master option similar to basically all of the other main codex chapters Well let's not get ahead of ourselves, it's 50/50 on who has their Chapter Master in the book. Ultras, Templars, Crimson Fists, Raven Guard all have theirs (and to be honest, Raven Guard are only included in that because Shrike got a lore-promotion since the last book). Everybody else is left out; spare a thought for the Iron Hands who still don't have a named character at all. I don't think every character named in the background actually needs rules of their own, although it would be nice to be able to represent them. I would have preferred the option to actually buy a generic Chapter Master outright and equip them via the normal ways, rather than it being tied to Command Points. Good point, I should have did the math on the others haha. It's so crazy that Crimson Fists and Black Templars have theirs as a Second Founding of the imperial Fists and the First Founding doesn't. It would have been nice even as a mention!! It should be an option to buy with points though for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Can we use Pedro and still have access to the imperial fist only entry's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extropian Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Can we use Pedro and still have access to the imperial fist only entry's? No. If you use named characters from Chapter X, your tactics/stratagems/relics are also from Chapter X. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Can we use Pedro and still have access to the imperial fist only entry's? No. If you use named characters from Chapter X, your tactics/stratagems/relics are also from Chapter X. This is probably my least favourite change in all of 8th; the effective removal of counts-as. If you're going to insist models be painted the "right" way in order to use their rules then at least give those of us running successor chapters (or as the OP points out, even First Founding chapter's without their main characters represented) the means to effectively create our own characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Can we use Pedro and still have access to the imperial fist only entry's? No. If you use named characters from Chapter X, your tactics/stratagems/relics are also from Chapter X. This is probably my least favourite change in all of 8th; the effective removal of counts-as. If you're going to insist models be painted the "right" way in order to use their rules then at least give those of us running successor chapters (or as the OP points out, even First Founding chapter's without their main characters represented) the means to effectively create our own characters. I'm not sure I understand the issue. You can paint Pedro and his ilk however you want, but for rules purposes he and his ilk will be CF. I don't think it matters how you want to represent that, right? You don't need to follow that colour scheme is what I'm saying, as long as you're following the rules. Unless you mean you wish you could take Pedro's rules and apply it to an IF character? If we had the ability to just grab heroes from another chapter and make them count-as heroes in our own, nobody would use any hero other than Rowboat Girlyman. Though I do like the idea mentioned earlier of spending points to create a custom chapter master rather than having to spend command points to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extropian Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Can we use Pedro and still have access to the imperial fist only entry's? No. If you use named characters from Chapter X, your tactics/stratagems/relics are also from Chapter X. This is probably my least favourite change in all of 8th; the effective removal of counts-as. If you're going to insist models be painted the "right" way in order to use their rules then at least give those of us running successor chapters (or as the OP points out, even First Founding chapter's without their main characters represented) the means to effectively create our own characters. "Counts-as" hasn't been removed though. I mean, you can paint the army pink with sparkly rainbows, and use them as any of the Chapters you like. You can use your Imperial Fists as Raven Guard, you just can't use Lysander if you do. "Counts as" is alive and well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) "Counts-as" hasn't been removed though. I mean, you can paint the army pink with sparkly rainbows, and use them as any of the Chapters you like. You can use your Imperial Fists as Raven Guard, you just can't use Lysander if you do. "Counts as" is alive and well. My comment was based on the blurb in the Blood Angels section of the Index, where it specifically states that Dante can only be the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels and you can't take his rules in a successor chapter. I didn't realise that the Codex Marines don't actually have that restriction . I'm not sure I understand the issue. You can paint Pedro and his ilk however you want, but for rules purposes he and his ilk will be CF. I don't think it matters how you want to represent that, right? You don't need to follow that colour scheme is what I'm saying, as long as you're following the rules. While I'm aware you could play your pink and white Candy Lords BA successors as "Blood Angels" led by "Commander Dante" and most players wouldn't bat an eyelid, the wording in the index seems designed to forbid that. For me it kind of defeats the point of letting you use your Chapter's name as a keyword, if it then prohibits you from using certain units on an arbitrary basis. Anyway, seems the basis of my complaint is tied to Blood Angels (and Dark Angels) rather than the Codex, and certainly doesn't seem to affect the Imperial Fists, so let's pretend I never brought it up! Edited August 2, 2017 by Halandaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 "Counts-as" hasn't been removed though. I mean, you can paint the army pink with sparkly rainbows, and use them as any of the Chapters you like. You can use your Imperial Fists as Raven Guard, you just can't use Lysander if you do. "Counts as" is alive and well. My comment was based on the blurb in the Blood Angels section of the Index, where it specifically states that Dante can only be the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels and you can't take his rules in a successor chapter. I didn't realise that the Codex Marines don't actually have that restriction . I'm not sure I understand the issue. You can paint Pedro and his ilk however you want, but for rules purposes he and his ilk will be CF. I don't think it matters how you want to represent that, right? You don't need to follow that colour scheme is what I'm saying, as long as you're following the rules. While I'm aware you could play your pink and white Candy Lords BA successors as "Blood Angels" led by "Commander Dante" and most players wouldn't bat an eyelid, the wording in the index seems designed to forbid that. For me it kind of defeats the point of letting you use your Chapter's name as a keyword, if it then prohibits you from using certain units on an arbitrary basis. Anyway, seems the basis of my complaint is tied to Blood Angels (and Dark Angels) rather than the Codex, and certainly doesn't seem to affect the Imperial Fists, so let's pretend I never brought it up! No it doesn't. For all rules purposes, the key word is the only thing that determines a faction. If I played a blue army and did a "counts as blood Angels" the rules allow it 100 percent because, based on keywords, they are blood Angels. The only thing that the rules prevent is me taking Seth along with them, because Seth can never count as a Blood Angel, as his faction key word is a hard Flesh Tearer. That means as long as I am counting my army as Blood Angels (which they are, based on the key word), then he cannot be part of it. Rules are based off words, not colors. Avicenna 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extropian Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Indeed, what Arkangilos says. The only thing you can't do is mix-and-match characters/traits/tactics/whatever that are locked to specific Chapters. Nothing stops you from playing as any Chapter you fancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munocat Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I created a full company of hell fist, I use CM Paco Cantu (Pedro cantar), my chapter tactics relics etc are crimson fist. My squads each have a different shoulder pad, in a fist chapter colors and icons, like black templars, imperial fist, celestial lions, crimson fist, knights of dorm etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarauderMitch Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Well my fists are 30k fists so I tend to use the Forgeworld characters for an the chapter specific characters. It also looks good and I haven't had any complaints yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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