Erelim Squad (Playtesters?)

[Aqui]

Beams idea is how I figure them to look to be honest :)

[Gen.Steiner]

Ooh, gosh, armoured robo-skeletons! That's an interesting idea.

[Ezr91aeL]

Since I've been talking about how I want them to look, I figgured I should try drawing them myself. My proportions are pretty bad, I can hardly draw a straight line, I didn't even try doing feet, etc. So brace yourselves but this is about how I envision them, scaled up PA using the normal Sabbat helmet, the front bit of armour in front if the helmet would be removable for non-combat situations. Maybe more decoration on the torso. The ranged weapon I'm thinking is basically fused to the end of the left arm. They don't have a left hand, just a gun.

 

CUT

Sorry, I hadn't understood before your desires untill now. And don't worry about critizies my works: it's a way to do better. I think this one will satisfy you.

As you can see the ranged weapon isn't integrated with the arm and there are two reasons why I've decided that:

1. The ranged weapon can be chanded in several different ways. It's simplier to wield a different wargear with an hand than to ask a Techpriest to unistall your arm and install a new one.
2. Sisters of Battle, differently by the filthy mut... I mean the Space Marines, are nuns before warriors. Fighting is only one of their duty and in peaceful times I think having both your hand could be more usefull. Remember that a member of the Sisterhood can change her Order, even with a non militant one (sisters that cannot fight anymore for injuries or age normally ask to be transfered to a Dialogos Order or a non militant one).

 

Did a quick sketch, but I'm still out of time. Don't have a pencil, so you'll have to forgive the quality.

 

Wanted to go for a living Relic/Martyr approach. I know it's not the way you guys were drawing but...

 

CUT

 

I was thinking about something like that but there is still the fact that they have a 2+ armour save. But I like it's style! Really Grim-Dark!

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by Ezr91aeL

[Ezr91aeL]

Corrected rules:

[Servant of Dante]

Ezr91aeL: Great! I'm not at my computer at the moment, but I'll add that data sheet to the OP. I still worry they're a bit under costed, but that's what playtesting is for!

 

And by the Golden Throne that sketch is awesome! :D it manages to look much more mechanical than mine :P and I agree that it's a good idea to let them keep both of their hands. As far as I'm concerned, we have our official concept art. Thanks! This is exactly how they should look (even if I didn't know exactly how they should look before I saw this sketch). I'm pretty excited right now! :P

Edited August 7, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Beams]

Ooh, gosh, armoured robo-skeletons! That's an interesting idea.

I think when I get back (Thursday?) I'll try and draw a better version. With a pencil haha and I might try my hand at sculpting one. Not sure what I would use her for (prolly another frakkin' canoness. At least it'll make it easier to do my Movie-Marines list)

[Servant of Dante]

Like the title now says, if anyone would like to try playtesting this unit, I think were at that point now. I'd think a 25 mm base would be appropriate, perhaps a 32 mm one. If you do try playing Erelim, please post your thoughts here.

 

Some of the questions I'm interested in:

 

What size base did you use and do you think it feels right?

Are they overcosted/undercosted?

Do they do too little/too much?

Do they play like a Sisters unit?

What did your opponent think of them?

How many times did you save a wound with Neural Feeback and how many times did Neural Feedback take off an extra wound?

     (remember a 1 or 2 on a model that already has taken a wound doesn't do anything extra since the model is already going to die from the wound you're trying to save )

Edited August 7, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Shouldn't the Erelim members' cybernetic enhancements give them Toughness 4, like AdMech Skitarii?

[Servant of Dante]

Then they would be the exact same stat line as Terminators, which I don't want. I decided to go with just Strength 4 and a 2+ armour save. Rather than buffing both strength and toughness.

[Gen.Steiner]

I think that 25mm base is fine; perhaps 40mm if you want but then maybe too close to Terminators again. I doubt I'll be able to proxy them or play with them sadly as though all my games are casual they are mostly played at my local GW!

On the other hand very interested to see others' experiences. :)

[Ezr91aeL]

They have the Bulky rule, so I think they needs a bigger base, like the 40mm one.

[CaptainHelion]

32mm bases would be perfect for these, I think. Bulkier than sisters standard, but not at terminator levels.

[Gen.Steiner]

Urrrgh but 32mm is so new and pants. Give me good ol' 25mm and 40mm bases any day!

[CaptainHelion]

Its a perfectly cromulent base size. Nothing to be gained from rejecting new things out of hand merely because they're new.

[Gen.Steiner]

They're neeeeeewwwwwwww and ugly and bleah.

But.
 

Yes. They probably are a good fit for the Erelim except that they're the new base size for non-<Bulky> Spess Muhreens so... surely 40mm is going to be better to emphasize the bulk and power of the robo-bodies?

[Servant of Dante]

I don't think they look big enough to justify a 40mm base. I'd go with 32. The bulky rule is mostly there for balance (to be extra sure they don't step on the Dominions' toes). Terminators are really big, and I'm not sue these Sosters are.

 

One can also say that marine rhinos are made for marines, and Sisters rhinos are made for Sisters. The Erelim are too big to fit in the Sisters vehicles.

[radionausea]

All of my sisters are going on 32mm. Power Armour = 32mm for me.

I know you're trying to distance yourself from the similarity to terminators but they do have similarities. I think 40mm is right for the Erelim

[Servant of Dante]

I'd just worry that the models would look too small on 40mm based, but if hypothetical plastic Sisters were on 32 mm then hypothetical models for this unit would probably be on 40mm. The issue is, they aren't THAT much bigger than regular power armour, but it's probably be fine I guess. Edited August 8, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Ezr91aeL]

In an eventual kitbash I would use the Tallax Cohort legs and that unit go on a 40 mm base so...

[Purifying Tempest]

I really hate to nit-pick, and for this I really would be...

 

Either their power is too high (like 8 would be more appropriate for the current point cost) or...

 

Their point costs are too low.

 

I don't know which side of that fence I sit on... I want to take issue with a heavy infantry model clocking in just over the cost of an elite marine, but at the same time T3 and lack of a ranged invulnerability is not a small issue.

 

Power Mauls make me sad, but for fluff reasons, I like it.

 

Acts of Faith seem really misplaced on a model that is mostly machine... are they still human enough to be concerned with the matters of the flesh and soul... or has being detached from their human limbs had a psychological impact based upon basically being put into the chassis of a talk/walker and told some Tau lines of the greater good?  That being said... their battlefield role almost makes Acts mandatory, especially considering the can never hitch a ride in any transport.

 

All in all... I think the unit may be a little too specialized... specialized to the point that fielding them and using them in that role may be really tricky to pull off.  I can see them either 1) gobbling up your Acts to keep them moving at a respectable closing speed, or 2) being kited all game because they have 5" movement, no transport capability, and no reason to really pay attention to them outside of 12" (rapid fire and melta range).

 

No teleport strike style rule makes the above a lot harsher.  That's why a lot of those slow, bulky models have that rule.  That and they can survive hitting the ground at those speeds! :)

 

How to fix that in the context of the game?

 

First, drop PL to 8 (+8 for extra).  Maybe 9... that puts them right around the price area of models that they are closer to.  Not that anyone plays power :)

 

Maybe allow them to replace their Chainswords with a Rosarius... give them a good invulnerable, make them tankable, but really impact their ability to swing in close combat.  The meltaguns and Stormbolters should be enough encouragement to play the unit at the sisters' comfortable range (1-12").

 

Consider a price hike for Teleport Strike.  It is a really big deal for slower, close-support units.  Being able to set them up 9" from your opponent's deployment zone in the middle of the field is much better than the 1.5 moves + AoF move it will cost to do it otherwise.  If this unit chews up your auto-Act every turn, it is going to feel VERY disruptive (especially given the power of the Act on Dominions, Seraphim, or Retributors).  Also, it allows them to punch before getting tossed off the field... and also forces your opponent to react to their presence instead of ignoring it.  Seems like something the Sororitas would want the enemy to do.

 

Anyways, just my thoughts. :)

 

They seem a bit misplaced for a Sororitas army, and I think they'll have a tough time fitting in because of it.

[Servant of Dante]

Only Terminators get to teleport, fluff-wise, so I'm not comfortable giving them a teleport mechanic since they aren't actually wearing termi armour. It's something that's been unique to Terminators for a long time, so I don't want to step on the toes of that. I agree that it would help them, but it wouldn't sit well with me fluff-wise. Plus, teleportariums use psykers to power them, which is another fluff strike against using that rule here, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I could see upping their movement to 6" though. I do want them to be able to get into close combat, but yeah, you're probably going to be using AoFs to let them move more :D

 

You have a point that they might eat up AoFs. I'm not too worried about that at the moment? I don't know that I want them to be an auto-include in lists. If you think your opponent is going to want to get in your face then these Sisters are a good choice.

 

Acts of Faith as far as I'm concerned are about strength of will, determination, and disregard for ones own life, so there's no issue there. They're still people, and the idea is that this is voluntary. It's about having faith that what they're fighting for is right, and I'd think that this would not change that.

 

They actually have almost the same survivability as Terminators, statistically. They had a 5++ before, but that actually made them more tanky than I wanted them. I could give them back the 5++, but I don't like just throwing around Rosariuses. Plus I don't like the idea of completely giving up their CC weapon, I guess I like the assault phase too much, so if the best choice becomes to just dump the close combat weapon for something, it'd make me sad. Really, I don't think they need to be much more survivable. They are plenty tanky, and it wouldn't make much sense fluff-wise for them to be alround harder to kill than Termis.

 

Personally, I wanted to make them cost more than Terminators, but the lack of transport does hurt them.

 

I think that they're interesting precisely because they're different from the units the Sisters already have. Though, my play style is less "make the best army possible" and more "build around the units I want to play"

[Ezr91aeL]

PREMISE: I haven't done this yet, it's only a suggestion. Some more able converter could probably give some better advices. Some bits will be a bit expensive so I suggest to use some home-made recasting.

 

A good starting point for the Erelim Squad is to use the "Inquistors" squad by Prodos Games, expecially if you wanna go for the PowerMaul + Praesidium Protectiva style.

http://shop.prodosgames.com/282-thickbox_default/inquisitors.jpg

Sadly, as you can see, they haven't any kind of mechanication of their body and most importantly they are really sexualized.

First of all you should cut all the legs. You will need to substitute them with the Tallax Chorts ones.

You should cut on the red lines too and if you are able to add some plate on the front with a piece of plasticard decorated with some greenstuff (trim, some fleur of lys etc...). The final result should be similar to an Imperial Knight's pair of legs.

Secondly we should remove that highly sexualized body. You will need the frontal part of a Geminae Superia body. You will need 5 of them so I suggest to recast that piece.

You will need to file the frontal part of the body of the "Inquisitor" miniature and substitue that with the Geminae's piece.

Now you have done the fundamental parts, the rest is optional.

You should substitue the head with a Sabbath Helm from the Immolator kit (recast it because is stupid to buy five Immolator only for this...) or with a Skitarii Vanguard helmet righly modificated with a bit of green stuff (see image).

You should to add some green stuff cable too (use a Roll Maker) to link the chest with the belly and the back. One more optional add is to put the exhaust from a Space Marine backpack on the back of the miniature and to substitute the arms with the Skitarii ones.

And then it should be done.

[Gen.Steiner]

That is both a really cool guide, and also possibly the only reason ever to buy those dreadful awful terrible Space Crusader models. Urgh.

[Ezr91aeL]

That is both a really cool guide, and also possibly the only reason ever to buy those dreadful awful terrible Space Crusader models. Urgh.

These minature are so well done... but with these tittes exposed... I was thinking about taking them to convert one in a Malleus Terminator Inquisitor. Yes, the sold a single miniature with the full armor (Calypso) but I don't like it's pose.

[Gen.Steiner]

What I don't understand is why on earth they went to the trouble of armouring them up if they were just going to wander around with bare midriffs?

Anyway. Erelim. Anyone had any games with them yet? Proxied them?