Did the new Codex or Edition completely nerf a unit/'s ?

[Firepower]

Cheap Crusader Squad transportation. They're effectively an assault squad with no jump packs after all, and much as I'd like to, I can't fit 3 LRCs in every list I write. Ramming stuff with them and eating up overwatch after disembarking to assault is handy as well. You wouldn't want to use a Razorback like that.

 

And when things are looking bad and a Rhino is real beat up, I get a giggle out of charging them into squads in the hope it explodes. ;)

 

As for bikes, I had a fair amount of success screening assaults against my LRC with them. They're a harassment unit mostly, but I only take 1 of them.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Firepower

[Ciler]

You can also pretty much make an enemy tank useless with that rhino once it has delivered it's payload also.

[Claws and Effect]

@defl0:

 

On the use of drop pods.

 

You can put 2 5-man Devastator squads with 4 multimeltas each in a single pod. Since 9" is within melta damage reroll range, that big killy LoW doesn't look so scary anymore.

 

There's not much 8 multimeltas can't kill inside 12". That's what, 48 potential damage?

[Ishagu]

It's hard to say whether the Vindicators have been nerfed - they were pretty weak before because of their short range, getting shaken or stunned, etc.

 

They are definitely underwhelming at the moment however. I don't think they are worth running even if you're making use of the new strategems.

 

Generally units all seem useful now with the exception of a few.

[PaddyG]

I feel that GW are trying very hard to discourage using dev cents with the points hike. Just compare them to assault cents, it's kind of nuts. 

 

I agree about drop pods, as does every marine player. I do think they were too cheap before, but with their durability hike, and overuse in the last edition I see them staying expensive throughout 8th. 

 

I've been extremely impressed with my rhinos/razorbacks now. From a survivability perspective, and a tactical perspective. They have saved me many a killpoint when I can fall back into them, and carry many small units inside!

 

Other than that, most of my units have been performing admirably! Characters especially!

[Ishagu]

Oh yeah, Devastator Centurions have been Devastated by their stupid price.

 

They are not hard to kill in this edition, and the sheer cost per model makes no sense at all. They need a significant point reduction, probable a third off their price if not more. Look at Obliterators - a far superior unit. Better firepower, deepstrike ability, Invul, far cheaper

[Claws and Effect]

Question:

 

Does a unit of Dev Centurions equipped with lascannons and missile launchers cost more than 3 regular Devastator squads?

 

Because two lascannons and two missile launchers is equal to the output of a whole Dev squad.

[Ishagu]

3 Dev Centurions cost more than 3 tanks.

 

It's silly for t5 model with 3 wounds and no cc capabilities or mobility.

[Ciler]

No mobility ? On a unit that precisely gets no penalty for moving and firing, and has an assault weapon ?

 

A unit that also, if I may :

• benefits from chapter traits (hello ultramarines, hello raven guard)
• ignores cover
• has better armour than most vehicles
• only loses shots (not accuracy) as it gets damaged.

That amounts to 465 pts, where two full lascan predators will be 380 pts. For that extra 85 points you get 2 less lascanon shots and... gain 3xD3 missile launcher shots.

[PaddyG]

You also have more than double the wounds on the predators. Different units, different roles, for sure.

 

They wouldn't have hiked the price without reason, but I do see a correlation between units that did well last edition, and price hikes. 

[Ebon Hand]

 

Why bikes? If you break them down, they're like 2 Tactical Marines per bike but with T5 and better move all for 1 more point than 2 tacs would cost. Then you can add special weapons into the mix.

 

Granted, they aren't objective secured, but melta bikes have performed decently for me.

Bikes... What do you do with them? They are fast, but where are they going? They shoot like a wet sock. They fight even worse. SMs don't really have Fast characters you are trying to screen. Sure. They are kinda tough ish... But why pay the movement premium.

 

For the points, in most lists they are dead weight

Once again, the points premium you pay (over a comparable 2 Tacticals) is exactly 1 point. For that point you get +1 toughness, +8 mov (and 6" advance), but lose obsec and the ability to move up levels of ruins.

 

What do you do with them? Hunt tanks, assault shooting threats (remember they can have chainswords), screen vehicles like Firepower said, move to deny deepstrike, or just shoot infantry. Yes their shooting is not that impressive vs heavy infantry, but vs lighter infantry they get the job done with those twin bolters. My area is heavy on xenos so there's no shortage of Genestealers, Eldar, Orks and Tau for them to shoot. If you really want to kill Marines, you can give them plasma guns.

 

Yeah, they're not carrying games on their own but they are an asset (especially in this week's Konor Mission) and far from being nerfed.

[CaptainMarsh]

I used to use the Thunderfire Cannon a lot. Now I have issues justifying its table presence.

[Ciler]

Bikes are also great to surround a transport and prevent disembarkation, forcing the unit inside to be destroyed with said transport.

 

Also, the not moving up ruins only applies if you decide to use terrain special rules, which are not mandatory, at all. For instance those rules will NOT be used in the Warhammer World Grand Tournament this fall and winter.

 

You also have more than double the wounds on the predators.

Yes and... no. In so far as if I successfully shoot a devastator centurion squad with a lascanon and roll a 6 for damage, I only knock out 1 model whereas a predator takes all 6 wounds. So yes, different roles and I don't think you'd do with 3 lascan predators what you would do with 3 centurions.

[Timur]

How bout Grav-Guns?  You know the special not the heavy cannon.  I haven't included them in a list in a while, we were just discussing this at my local.

 

Now I do like Grav Cannons on account of their rate of fire(4).  I think of it as a heavy bolter on combat drugs, if it wds. a vehicle or multi-wounder with a 3+, it can do some serious dmg.  I like GvC. on tac. squads.  Even a deepstriking squad of 4 looks fun, like a bunch of MM's.

 

But the grav-gun?  For me it's the range, I guess.  I could see using them on bikes.