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Salamanders during Dark Imperium

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#1
Custodian Athiair

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As far as the events of Cadia falling, the Cicatrix Maledictum, and the general storm of destruction we know a fair amount about poster boy armies. We know Blood Angels got nearly wiped, Space Wolves lost their home world, Ultramarines, Scythes of the Emperor, White Scars, Crimson Fists all had chaos rife within their local void space.

 

However based on readings of the codex I have seen little to do with how the Salamanders fared during these raids and wars. Obviously, we got involved with the Primaris thing with Aggressors helping clear a deamon infested hive world etc. But did we need Primaris? Were they much needed reinforcements to fill holes in our companies and fleets? Or were they simply bulking out our firepower for the ensuing wars to come to support the populous of the Imperium?

 

A lot of my reasoning for asking is that the Codex is almost deliberately vague on our company structure just mentioning the existence of Battline, Close-support and Fire-support squads, not the number or even an estimate of numbers. (For the purposes of this discussion lets not get involved in the contradiction we've all seen in the Codex concerning number of companies).

 

Another reason is I'm starting to have a ridiculous number of tactical marine squads available to me (from various friends handing over old models), and I'm questioning if I'm still allowed to say they're all part of the 4th company sweat.gif

 

Anyway I'll shut up now: 

 

TLDR: Did the Salamanders suffer major losses during the appearance of the Great Rift, or were Primaris reinforcements just bulking out our chapter further?


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Probably heretical due to the Plague Zombie problem springing up in the 41st Millenium.
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#2
Uprising

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At this point in time, we know very little about the salamanders and the 200 years after Gullimans takeover.  But, we know two things:  We get Primaris and the salamanders are probably doing everything in their power to help the civilians of the Imperium in these dark times.  It's a wait and seen game at this moment.

 

On the topic of companies, just go crazy.  At this point, I doubt GW will ever address it. 


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#3
Ogun

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I think that this may depend upon what exactly happened on Armageddon. We know the Salamanders committed 6 companies at the outbreak of the war. We know that quite a few chapters withdrew at the onset of the Season of Fire to rearm.That is the old lore. We know from the 8th ed rulebook that Salamander reinforcements finally arrived at Armageddon once the Noctis Aeterna lifted and that at some stage they were critically involved in halting the ritual to summon Angron. 

The question then is whether the Salamanders had companies trapped on Armageddon during the Blackness, and if so how many. I think it is a safe bet that any companies stuck there are going to have been pretty mauled, so Primaris reinforcements would probably have been needed and welcome. 

 

Of course, because time apparently flowed differently in different bits of the galaxy for all we know the Salamanders may have been trapped on Nocturne unmolested for a century. The Noctis Aeterna might have lifted leaving them at full strength. rolleyesclean.gif



#4
Custodian Athiair

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Part of me likes the idea that they weren't mauled and Tu'Shan could lead his chapter around like a mini legion to reunited the Imperium. Something that Vulkan and the original XVIIIth couldn't do after the Heresy and during the Scouring due to decimated numbers. It's sort of a redemption for the legion through the fires of battle which feels very Promethean cult-esque.


 

Probably heretical due to the Plague Zombie problem springing up in the 41st Millenium.
"What in Terra's name are you doing?"
"Um...gathering tactical data."
"With a spork?"

 

The Leonic Heresy (alternate history): http://www.bolterand...-leonic-heresy/

Salamanders {8th}: W:24{5} D:8{0} L:10{0}


#5
Ogun

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It would be great if they did something like that, or even made it that there are now multiple Salamander Ultima foundings. Have the sons of Vulkan wielding far more clout in the Imperium.There is a lot of potential in the new setup, but I am just hoping that the writers don't fall into the trap of trying to keep all the old power dynamics the same. 



#6
Aothaine

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From what I read the Salamanders decided to follow the Codex Astartes some-what. They were excused from breaking their legion apart. Partly due to their decimation and low numbers but part of me wants to believe that Roboute Guilliman decided they didn't need to break their legion due to the Salamander's history and how protective they are of the Imperium's citizens. 

 

So, now Roboute Guilliman is back and he seems to think that breaking the legions up was a bad idea. He also has all these primaris around. He knows that telling all the chapters that they don't exist anymore would cause problems. So for other chapters he assigns primaris to them to fill them out. But the Salamanders are still a Legion and do not have an successors. So all of the primaris made for them would go to Salamanders. 

 

We also know that the Salamanders still only use 7 companies according to the space marine dex. Eight if you remember that there are 7 major cities and a company for each city then a company for the scouts if I remember correctly. Yes there is an error there. But I would imagine that each company would be around 10,000 - 20,000 strong at this point. 

 

Just a guess. Hopefully we'll get a book about the delivery of the Primaris and how they are viewed by the Salamaders born on Nocturne. Will the new primaris have dark skin and red eyes? Will they slowly change? Will there be Ultima founding successors? If so, there will be a ton of them and it would go against Vulkan's wishes. From everything I've read Vulkan did not want to split his legion and was given permission not to. But you could assume that each of the seven companies are a chapter themselves. 

 

Sorry for the necro of this topic but it is something I've been wanting to discuss for awhile now.


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#7
SickSix

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There is no way each company 10'000 strong lol. Sorry thats just crazy.

Are they over the codex prescribed 100? Sure.

The entire Salamander Legion was still one of the smallest at the height of 30k.

For the OP, all (loyal)Legions had Primaris in stasis from what I understand. So the Salamnders would habe received them whether they wanted to or not because the Primaris were Salamander Legionaires.

The Chapter could have easily doubled in size as they have always been portrayed as being understrength.

#8
Aothaine

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There is no way each company 10'000 strong lol. Sorry thats just crazy.

Are they over the codex prescribed 100? Sure.

The entire Salamander Legion was still one of the smallest at the height of 30k.

For the OP, all (loyal)Legions had Primaris in stasis from what I understand. So the Salamnders would habe received them whether they wanted to or not because the Primaris were Salamander Legionaires.

The Chapter could have easily doubled in size as they have always been portrayed as being understrength.

 

Fair enough. But you do think they decided to make less primaris for the Salamanders? I mean... it just wouldn't make any sense that they make around 20,000 Blood Angel Primaris and only 2,000 Salamander Primaris because of codex astartes rules. 

 

Also as there are no official successors they would then have just created like 10 successor chapters or more in this one founding, or they could have let all the primaris join in the Salamanders Legion which was effectively not broken up and was the only loyalist legion to not have been forced to split and so can still call itself a legion.


Edited by Aothaine, 23 February 2018 - 09:21 PM.

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#9
Jagus Kumkani

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Well there's an Ultima Founding Chapter names the Silver Drakes. There isn't much fluff on them, there hasn't been any mention of where their gene-seed comes from. but with that name, I would think that Vulkan is their Progenitor. 


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#10
Aothaine

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Well there's an Ultima Founding Chapter names the Silver Drakes. There isn't much fluff on them, there hasn't been any mention of where their gene-seed comes from. but with that name, I would think that Vulkan is their Progenitor. 

 

Fair enough.. but that would still only be like 2-3 successor chapters leaving around 15,000 primaris at least to be shuffled around. It doesn't add up to me personally. Really do wish the Salamanders would get some love in this area.


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#11
Jagus Kumkani

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Theres also the Knights of Thunder, so maybe they're Salamanders successors as well


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#12
Slan Drakkos

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Th salamanders are probably up to about 30,000-40,000 astartes after this founding. What really helps them is that they're actually the only Loyalist legion that was exempt from the rules of the codex astartes.

#13
Aothaine

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Th salamanders are probably up to about 30,000-40,000 astartes after this founding. What really helps them is that they're actually the only Loyalist legion that was exempt from the rules of the codex astartes.

 

This is my current argument that is supported by written sources in the new codex. They are really the only Legion left and would have ended up receiving the majority of the Primaris. There were also hints in Devastation of Baal that Roboute felt that breaking the legions was a bad idea. Vulkan was originally of that mind as well. Perhaps it is a sign of respect or apology that he could have just had the Salamanders absorb the entirety of the Primaris made for them. Also there is the stellar record of the Salamanders and their unyielding loyalty and faith to the Imperium, Emperor and Vulkan. They are very well known for protecting the lives of civilians over their own even if it costs them horrible losses. This could also be another reason that Roboute wouldn't want them split too much. They were the foundation of the Imperium that held the swaying masses after the crusade fleets rampage passed and perhaps Roboute is looking to use them again in that fashion. 


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