+++ Dark Raiders: Renegade Astartes for 8th +++

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

@SanguinaryGuardsmen: That seems like the kind of list Alpha Legion would play, I think you're not maximising the renegade rules with it. For starters, it makes little sense to play 3x20 Cultists instead of 6x10, as we do the want to buff them with VotLW, or infiltrate them, and you're saying you're casting delightful agonies and prescience on the oblits, while 6 units allow you to get more objectives and forces your opponent to split fire, while protecting you more from morale. The only reason to play bigger units for us would be if you were using tide of traitors, and then I would play a unit of 40 and two units of 10. Also, I'm not a fan of possessed, zerkers in Rhinos always work out better for me, and I still need to try out CC plague marines. I do agree completely with your reflection on oblits though. Overall, I would split the Cultists and probably take less of them, while taking squads in Rhinos which benefit more from the run+charge dinamic (disembark 3, then move 6, run D6 and charge 2d6 makes for an average threat range of 19,5" when you disembark).

And yes, I think bloodletter bomb is an awesome ally, you basically insert a huge threat range in your enemy's face. I would recommend a regular herald instead of skulktaker though, with S6 you wound T3 on a 2+, while bloodletters are already hitting on a 2+ when they're 20+... Also, Skarbrand. He's expensive at 360 but oh my god his buff is too awesome, and actually affects your Cultists too.

 

I do plan to run 6 x 10 cultists later on.  Right now I can only field 1000 points of chaos and the army is somewhat of a side project .  Im using possessed marines because I got a really really good deal on 2 boxes of "Favoured of Chaos".  Each of those boxes contains 15 possessed and 1 daemon prince.  Plus I like really like the possessed models/fluff.  They have been OK in my games with a few highlights.  I think they could compete with zerkers if they had T5 or cost like 18ppm.  

 

I've been having a hard time figuring out what direction I want to go with this army.  I really do not want to buy rhinos.  I dont like the model much and enjoy painting it even less.  I do like the idea of adding bodies and making it a horde with 60 cultists, 20 possessed, 20 berzerkers, and a bloodletter bomb.  

[The Traitor]

In my opinion, zerkers need a way of delivery, if you don't like Rhinos you could use a dreadclaw, or ally Alpha Legion. Bloodletter bomb delivers itself however :P... If you don't want any transports though you should consider playing units that don't need them, like bikers, Raptors, Warp Talons, Terminators, more oblits, etc... or even hybrid ranged/ cc units like Noise Marines.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

In my opinion, zerkers need a way of delivery, if you don't like Rhinos you could use a dreadclaw, or ally Alpha Legion. Bloodletter bomb delivers itself however ... If you don't want any transports though you should consider playing units that don't need them, like bikers, Raptors, Warp Talons, Terminators, more oblits, etc... or even hybrid ranged/ cc units like Noise Marines.

I figure that if im playing renegades why should I buy transports?  If I'm buying transports Ill take emperors children or black legion.  

 

I've found that without transports your target priority changes with oblits.  You gotta target anti chaff like razorbacks and bikers and leave heavy stuff alone.

[The Traitor]

Renegades and transports work perfectly together, you can run the turn you get out for a surprisingly huge threat range. Actually against shooty lists running up the board without transports won't be enough unless you take really fast units or deep strikers.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Renegades and transports work perfectly together, you can run the turn you get out for a surprisingly huge threat range. Actually against shooty lists running up the board without transports won't be enough unless you take really fast units or deep strikers.

I want to combine possessed marines, cultist spam, and a bloodletter bomb.  Stay tuned!

[ChazSexington]

 

Renegades and transports work perfectly together, you can run the turn you get out for a surprisingly huge threat range. Actually against shooty lists running up the board without transports won't be enough unless you take really fast units or deep strikers.

I want to combine possessed marines, cultist spam, and a bloodletter bomb.  Stay tuned!

 

 

Here comes the issue - the Alpha Legion does that better :/

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

 

Renegades and transports work perfectly together, you can run the turn you get out for a surprisingly huge threat range. Actually against shooty lists running up the board without transports won't be enough unless you take really fast units or deep strikers.

I want to combine possessed marines, cultist spam, and a bloodletter bomb.  Stay tuned!

 

 

Here comes the issue - the Alpha Legion does that better :/

 

They do!  But that aint what im doing.  

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

How do you make cool Renegade Chapter lore?

[Khornestar]

I suppose you must have a starting point (obvious, right?). Maybe this is the chapter that is turning renegade. Who are they? What is their geneseed? Are there any defining traits for that chapter? Then, you can think about what it means to turn to chaos. Is it gradual, or is there some single event that causes their betrayal of their oaths to the corpse emperor? Are their traits actually flaws, or can they be if warped or pushed beyond the limit? Do they “enjoy” killing Heretics a little too much? Do they pursue victory at any cost? ANY cost? How easily could they be tricked into doing something from which there is no coming back? Does their independent nature put them at odds with the imperial power structure?

 

Play around with these questions and questions like them. Think about what makes a loyalist chapter cool, and then think about how that could be twisted into something badass and chaotic. Start with the big picture, even something written broadly in a few sentences or a paragraph, answering a few important questions, and flesh it out from there.

 

Just suggestions, I’m sure there are other ways of going about it, but that’s what came to mind.

[ChazSexington]

How do you make cool Renegade Chapter lore?

 

 

I suppose you must have a starting point (obvious, right?). Maybe this is the chapter that is turning renegade. Who are they? What is their geneseed? Are there any defining traits for that chapter? Then, you can think about what it means to turn to chaos. Is it gradual, or is there some single event that causes their betrayal of their oaths to the corpse emperor? Are their traits actually flaws, or can they be if warped or pushed beyond the limit? Do they “enjoy” killing Heretics a little too much? Do they pursue victory at any cost? ANY cost? How easily could they be tricked into doing something from which there is no coming back? Does their independent nature put them at odds with the imperial power structure?

 

Play around with these questions and questions like them. Think about what makes a loyalist chapter cool, and then think about how that could be twisted into something badass and chaotic. Start with the big picture, even something written broadly in a few sentences or a paragraph, answering a few important questions, and flesh it out from there.

 

Just suggestions, I’m sure there are other ways of going about it, but that’s what came to mind.

 

As an example, my Red Corsairs are a mix of Space Wolves and White Scars, with Iron Hands to be added. The White Scars are survivors of the Legion that turned to the Warmaster, while the Space Wolves turned after the Imperium let the Space Wolves go almost extinct due to the Canis Helix, while having the cure all along (Primaris). 

[Scourged]

I mean, this is the best part of the world, right? Truly designing your army, from the modelling to the painting to the tactics... all the way to your lore. It's the best, but yes, can be daunting. Thankfully there are ways to help yourself. Down in the LIBER section of this forum, there's a stickied post called DIY Resources. There isn't as much there as there was many years ago when I raided those resources, but there's still enough, and it's great. Plenty of advice and suggestions on building a chapter/warband from scratch. 

 

Then, if you scoot over to 1D4Chan, the still have (somewhere) Chaos Warband Creation Tables (one for CSM specifically, and one for general Chaos). It's a simple premise: role dice for each section of the table, top to bottom, and when you're done you'll have a paragraph that sums up your warband in a nutshell. Or if you don't like random, the table is great for providing further ideas and inspiration, even if you never roll a single D6 on it. 

 

But these are just places to start, but sometimes that's all you need.. Hell, the Scourged have only one official paragraph written about them in the CSM codex, yet I have amassed more than a novel's worth of words detailing my version of them. Lore takes time. Stories take time. The games you play will influence your lore. You'll discover you have a certain way of fighting you like, certain units that shine, individual models that always succeed/fail. Inspiration will come with experience. Or maybe you go another route, writing stories for the weekly challenges in the Inspiration Friday thread for years without ever having played a gain (not that I would know anything about that). You'll write more and more, invariably adding piles and piles of backstory and character to your personal warband. Or do both! 

 

But don't try and write a full Wikipedia page all at once about your warband. It's daunting, and can lead to shortcuts and... tropes. Avoid the tropes and the cliches and urge to make your warband the best of the best of the best. Context in your setting keeps things grounded, believable, and easier for an audience to relate to. Flaws matter just as much as attributes. There was a great article in that LIBER thread talking about such things, and I hope it's still there. 

 

Just don't rush it, don't force it. Do what's cool for you

[Kierdale]

I’ll throw in another vote for ‘take part in Inspirarional Friday’.

I started my own warband, the Psychopomps with little more than the ideas ‘non-Emperor’s Children Slaanesh marines’ and a few things from the old Space Marine novel by Ian Watson (the pain glove, for one). Writing fluff every few weeks on various themes for Inspirational Friday has really helped me envision and expand on the warband, their characters, aims, tactics, foes, etc.

 

Join us :D

[BitsHammer]

Digging this back up because I feel like I've got an example of something you can do for Renegades that I haven't seen done often: take a loyalist chapter and convert that directly into chaos. I was inspired by a Renegade Lamenters army to do that and now I've started work on Renegade Marines Malevolent (and considering how that chapter has been told off by the Inquisition for their wanton collateral damage and civilian casualties you know these guys weren't that nice to start with).

 

Really like the Doom Eagles but want to see them with spikes? Nothing is stopping you from doing it. Just think about what could push your ragtag group of heretics over the edge and run with it like a Nurgling with scissors*.

 

 

*Don't actually run with scissors though.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Eventually I'm going to go that with the Emperor's Swords, the Chapter that was infiltrated and turned/destroyed on Ghostangrad by the Alpha Legion.

 

I call them the Broken Blades.

[BitsHammer]

Eventually I'm going to go that with the Emperor's Swords, the Chapter that was infiltrated and turned/destroyed on Ghostangrad by the Alpha Legion.

 

I call them the Broken Blades.

I approve of this plan!

 

I'm starting to wonder how much Slaanesh I'm channeling on my project since the skin of my Helbrute's flesh and the Daemon Prince are both purple. I went that route because I didn't want a warm skin color and something dark makes the yellow pop more while keeping it purple ties it to the armor trim and thus the rest of the model (and is now my spot color for cloth or topknots for the rest of the army) but dang if I'm not wondering if I should just devote the army to Slaanesh now.

[Backslide]

Well I finally ran my lads as renegades, damm... run and charge is more fun than I thought...

 

That said my army consisted of 72 cultists an aposile and exaulted.. and 3 knights

 

But they complemented each other well I thought cultists were fun before!

 

Vs tau they got off some great charges and killed alot of fire warriors just because the managed to close that much faster

 

Only one of the knights actually had guns fun was had all round

[BitsHammer]

I've actually kind of hit a roadblock on my Renegades. Mostly because the army I could see in my head doesn't quite work on the table.

 

Then Kill Team started singing it's Siren Song and I ended up selling my soul to Tzeentch.

 

On the plus side I'll never run out of down for my pillows!

 

Joking aside, I feel like the starter box CSM work better as the basis for a unit of Chosen, but that leaves me needing to build Cultists (partially for CP because CP generation is really important in this edition, and partially because CSM need something to feel more effective on the table and basically there is not right answer on what their missing, but it's definitely something (my vote still goes to needing the ability to run Chainswords and Bolters though)). Trying to build a half melee/half shooting focused army has proven a bit challenging for me. 

 

If I wanted to be this specialized in all my units I'd just play poncy knife ears to be honest.

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

Does anyone run Red Corsairs by painting their Marines in any established Chapter or Chaos Space Marine scheme and then marking a red X over their previous icon? Also, how is Huron Blackheart this edition?

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

What are good Forge World choices for Renegade Chapters?

[ChazSexington]

Does anyone run Red Corsairs by painting their Marines in any established Chapter or Chaos Space Marine scheme and then marking a red X over their previous icon? Also, how is Huron Blackheart this edition?

 

 

What are good Forge World choices for Renegade Chapters?

 

Huron's a ghetto Abaddon, basically.

 

I'm considering doing something similar with regards to the red cross, or alternatively used chipped paint mediums to show previous Chapters.

 

Renegades don't really benefit from much Forge World stuff - maybe a close combat Contemptor. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

Does anyone run Red Corsairs by painting their Marines in any established Chapter or Chaos Space Marine scheme and then marking a red X over their previous icon? Also, how is Huron Blackheart this edition?

 

 

What are good Forge World choices for Renegade Chapters?

 

Huron's a ghetto Abaddon, basically.

 

I'm considering doing something similar with regards to the red cross, or alternatively used chipped paint mediums to show previous Chapters.

 

Renegades don't really benefit from much Forge World stuff - maybe a close combat Contemptor. 

 

 

They benefit mostly from the various CC-capable flavors of Helbrute/Dreadnought and from the transport vehicles. There is also the Sicaran, which can Advance and still fire its main weapon, keeping pace with the rest of the army.

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

Cool thanks. I'm burnt out on the traitor legions so I'm thinking of making my army my own Chapter.

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

The Red Corsairs, Crimson Slaughter, The Purge, The Flawless Host, and the Scourged have been announced to be getting stratagems and relics in Vigilus Ablaze. What are you hoping to see for each?

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

Also Fallen are getting a specialist detachment in Vigilus Ablaze.

[Panzer]

I'm curious what the Flawless Host will get. I was half expecting them to get rolled into an EC Codex but apparently not lol