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Liber Thought Experiments - Orks

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#26
Ace Debonair

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So far the entirety of the Silver Suns' personality can be summed up as "Two parts Arthurian Knights, one part Three-Kingdoms-era Ancient China, one part Grey Hunter Ydalir's Bloodsworn Chapter only don't make it too obvious".

 

So I think it's probably better if I develop them a LOT further before posting anything more. tongue.png

 

Also I generally find successor Chapters much more interesting than the original Legions, which I'm sure comes as a great shock to everyone.laugh.png


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#27
Conn Eremon

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The next experiment will be posted tomorrow morning PST.

 

Though the focus of the thread may shift along with it, all previous experiments are still valid to be explored in-thread at any time.


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#28
Kelborn

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Finally....I've finished it.

The following is just a short recap of what I've had in mind about potential differences between normal and Primaris Astartes. Most likely will I expand upon this scenario and implement it in my coming stuff like the Black Templar Tempestus Crusade and the reclamation (aka 8th edition update) of my Dominion of Storms project.

 

Hope you enjoy it. :)

 

The Tempestus Crusade

 

“Brothers, I am glad and proud to see you all again aboard the Eternal Crusader.”

 

High Marshal Helbrecht arose from his throne in the middle of his sanctuary, a vast hall, decorated and ornamented with countless battle honors and symbols of his chapter’s past. Cherubims flew high above him, orchestrating chorals. Their innocent faces rejoicing in their eternal duty. Right before him stood the highest-ranking members of the Black Templars, marshals, sword brothers, all of them champions of the Emperor thoroughly. He had summoned them in order to reassemble the chapter after the successful conclusion of the so-called Indomitus Crusade, led by none other than the returned Primarch, RobouteGuiliman himself. It was glorious being part of this venture. It felt like he had imagined the Great Crusade. It felt right.

 

Helbrecht approached his gathered elite. Grim faces of proud warriors, clad in the holy colors of their patron and ancestor, burning with the desire to fulfill their ancient oath of conquering the galaxy for man, stood next to him. He knew them well as he had fought at their side on more occasions than he could remember. He rested a hand on the shoulder of a close by brother.

 

“As you all know, the Indomitus Crusade has ended. However, our task remains. Countless worlds are still separated, calling for out for help. We will set sails and push forward. The galaxy is our birthright. For the Emperor!”

 

“FOR THE EMPEROR!”

 

Castellan Dargon joined his brother’s call. Young for a man of his rank, he had risen to the ranks of the sword brothers just a few years ago, serving under the Black Templars’ cross for about 40 years.

 

“Marshal Althar?”

 

“Yes, my lord.”

 

Dargon’s mentor, Marshal Althar stepped forward and kneeled before Helbrecht. His black armor still carried the scars and detriments of their last battle on the cursed wastes of Ultrevis against the foul legions of the dead.

 

“What is your bidding?”

 

“The Lord Commander asked for our support in another expedition into the dark realms of the Imperium Nihilus. I ask you of joining this crusade and recovering the region known as the Dominion of Storms.”

 

“I vow by my honor and by the holy Emperor on Terra, it will be done.”

 

“So be it. Rise, brother Althar. We will meet later on to controvert your new crusade. Others will join its cause and we have much to discuss. In the Emperor’s name. Praise be!”

 

“Praise be!”

 

Althar rose again and joined the ranks of his brothers.

 

“A new crusade? We just returned from the last one.” Dargon whispered.

 

He was known for his loose tongue but Althar, making him one of his closest advisors, welcomed this feature.

 

“Indeed. But it is what makes us, eternally crusading in the name of Terra. Besides, I have heard rumors of the Greyshields joining several chapters or founding separate ones. Some might even join our ranks. Further, there are other chapters, who desire to reclaim their lost homes deep within the Dominion like the Imperial Sons. Half of their chapter as well as their entire home sector is still lost due to the Great Rift. They would make formidable allies, as they are known to be as forward thinking as we are. As long as we are not joined by those, who would slow us down, I will welcome every new battle-brother.”

 

“You are referring to the empire-builders and the sons of Nocturne, aye?”

 

“Indeed. They would hinder us in fulfilling our mission. Let the Imperial Guard and the Administratum rebuild worlds. We were born for war and not for rebuilding. Now, be quiet. There will be enough time to discuss this further.”

 

A couple of days later did Dargon stand right next to Althar and the other castellans, acting as an honor guard for their master, of the newly declared Tempestus Crusade aboard their flagship, the Blade of Terra. Each and everyone bore the new signet of the Crusade, a red shield halved by a black sword and white crossed lightning. They were waiting for the delegation of their future allies, who would accompany them during the coming crusade. The massive doors, each depicting the last hours of the siege of Terra and the downfall of the traitorous scum before their ancestor Sigismund, opened. A group of representatives entered the hall. Proxies of all imperial institutions like the Astra Militarum as well as the Adetus Mechanicus were present. But the Black Templars attentions were caught by the four giants, which lead the lot. Each of them was taller than an average Space Marine, dwarfing their fellows like a man would dwarf a child.

 

One of them wore a massively ornamented grey Terminator armor and carried a mighty hammer, which rested on his shoulder. His knightly helmet was focused on Althar and his men. Its owner had no need to look around; he already scanned the room with his cursed abilities. He belonged to the only group of psykers the Black Templars accepted as battle-brothers: the Grey Knights of Titan.

 

Right next to him strode a being of phenomenal potency. Clad in an ancient, golden armor which surpassed even that of the Grey Knight right next to him, his former task was to guard the ancient halls on the throne world itself. Now, with Lord Commander Guiliman in charge of the imperial forces, forces of the holy Adeptus Custodes had joined his efforts.

 

 “A Custodes? Here? What does that mean?” asked castellan Dolvrid.

 

“It means that our mission is of importance for the Lord Commander. The Dominion is known to be a realm of resources and potency. It could become a nearly invulnerable bulwark within the Imperium Nihilus. Thus, its reclamation is nothing to trifle with. “answered marshal Althar.

 

The last two of the approaching Astartes were members of the newly introduced Primaris. Though they looked similar in their new Mark X armor, they had customized their appearance and differ from another like day and night.

 

One of them wore the same livery as the Dargon and his brothers. The black cross was shown off on his polished armor right next to the iconography of the Indomitus Crusade, a batch, which was worn proudly by all participants as it heralded the beginning of a new age. His helmet was attached to his belt, revealing a young but eager face, which did not disguised its owners astonishment.

 

The last member of the four was still clad in the grey painted armor of the grey shields. Most likely one of those Primaris, which were tasked to either found a new chapter or those unlucky ones, which haven’t had the time to reunify with their brothers. Still, this Primaris showed off more individualism than Dargon had ever seen by one of this kind. A heavy cloak of what seemed to be scales hung over his left shoulder. Bones and other small tokens were attached to the Primaris’ belt. Beginning from his right glove, subtle engravings decorated his right arm, which spoke of a masterful artisan.

 

The group halted right before marshal Althar, who welcomed them aboard the Blade of Terra. Etiquette dictated that each and everyone had to introduce themselves. When Althar introduced his castellans, he was interrupted by the grey clad Primaris.

 

“I once knew a Neophyte with the name of Dargon. We fought against the cursed greenskins on one of your recruiting worlds, Eftonia Primus. Tell me, are you the same one? If so, I congratulate you. A remarkable career, achieving the rank of a lieutenant within 40 years.”

 

Dargon stepped forward.

 

“Indeed, I am Dargon from Eftonia and I remember your kind helping us in our direst hour but I can’t recognize you. Tell me your name and from which Primarch you belong to, brother. I would like to know our saviors.”

 

“Of course. I am Val’kar, commander of the 26th Primaris regiment, informally known as the Ebonspears.”

 

His hands reached for his helmet, unlocking its seals. He pulled off his helmet. A tattooed bald head, coal black skin, a short trimmed black beard and red burning eyes were revealed.

 

“We are the heirs of Nocturne and the true sons of Vulkan.”

 


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Brotherhood of the Lost: XXth Legiones Astartes, the Predators http://www.bolterand...-the-predators/
Brotherhood of the Lost - The Icarion Insurrection: http://www.bolterand...od-of-the-lost/

#29
Conn Eremon

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EXPERIMENTUM PRIMARIS-bet

Is Blood Enough?


The Primaris Marines have been waiting for ten thousand years for their call to service. Ten thousand years of stasis and nothingness, intermittently disrupted by periods of training. Though the tech-craft of Magos Cawl may have altered them from the Astartes baseline by heavy genetic modification and refinement, they remain the gene-sons of the primarchs. When Guilliman finally gave the order, and the Primaris marched to war for the first time, many did so as a new organization of Space Marines, a Legion in all but name, for the Indomitus Crusade. Greyshields they called themselves, but officially they were the Unnumbered Sons, divided by gene-line. Others were incorporated into existing Chapters or formed new ones within the Ultima Founding. As the Crusade continued, more of the Unnumbered Sons were removed for the same purpose. By the Crusade's end, the Greyshields were no more, all surviving Primaris divided among the many Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes, new and old. Though they were born in ancient times, they are as yet young. Though they have been changed at a fundamental level, they still have a lineage that is as important to them as to any of the Astartes. They the sons of the primarchs, brothers to the Astartes, for blood does not lie. But is blood all there is?

This next experiment takes a closer look at the incorporation of the Primaris into our DIY Chapters. The Primaris Marines already have an indelible connection with our Chapters; they wear your colors and badge, and within their veins flow the blood of the same primarch. We all know that there is more to it than that. Each Chapter is, in essence, its own gene-line. While the Legions may have once considered each other cousins, now it's for those Chapters that share a progenitor. Depending on the Chapter's outlook, a Primaris Marine might not be of the same blood. In addition, a Chapter's identity is far more than just blood, important though it may be. The cultural imprint of their home world is a powerful influence the Primaris Marines will not be a part of, at least at first. Not to mention, they will be simply be from a different time. The Imperium has changed quite a bit in the intervening millennia, and Space Marine Chapters are not exempt from that. The sheer weight of history will be missing. So if wearing the same colors and bearing the same blood is not enough to call one brother, how then to bridge this gap? We've looked at how our DIYs might accommodate the Primaris during a short-term conflict, but now let's look over the long-term effects the introduction of the Primaris have.

This then is the second experiment: Consider the various differences that must surely exist between your DIY and the Primaris reinforcements, and how those differences may be reconciled.

There are a lot of different aspects of a Chapter DIY that we can look to for differences. Consider your basic Index Astartes layout; each section has an opportunity for variance. The Primaris Marines will not share the Chapter's history, and they may not fight according to the same combat doctrine. They will not have been inducted into the Chapter's cult nor been molded by the home world. Even their gene-seed will be different due to the modifications. This experiment is looking for ways in which these differences can be highlighted and noted, but still be overcome. As usual, this experiment is not confined solely to Space Marine Chapters. The Imperium is an intricate web of inter-connectivity by way of alliances, allegiances and oaths. In addition, it is not unknown for the Imperium to recreate Space Marine Chapters or bring them back from the brink of near extinction. How does your Forgeworld feel about the Primaris wearing the colors of a dead Chapter coming to collect on an ancient contract, for example? For the Heretic Astartes, this experiment is likely very familiar, for it must have been a common problem set before any Warband that recruits still. Any recruit to a Warband, whether it's a Chaos Marine joining or a hapless mortal going through the agonizing induction process, would be faced with similar difficulties of assimilation, though perhaps in a far less forgiving environment.

The final experiment of this group will be posted September 4th.

Edited by Conn Eremon, 21 August 2017 - 02:22 PM.

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#30
Conn Eremon

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I think my Imperial Dragons have the most interesting background with which to approach the long-term inclusion of Primaris Marines. Their existing lore is that the removal and implantation of gene-seed factors in their Chapter cult. The Apothecarion and Reclusiam keeps careful record of where each progenoid gland is removed from, whether it's the first or second developed gland, and which neophyte is implanted with gene-seed derived from which gland. This leads to an exceptionally complicated family tree of sorts, and each and every Imperial Fist is capable of reciting their own particular spot within the Chapter's lineage, and trace it all the way back to the foundation of the tradition.
 
More than simple record-keeping, the path of lineage has a very real impact on the Chapter. It's not just the fact of genetic progression they track, because tied up into each point on the tree is the very legend and story of each and every Imperial Dragon. Those branches and lineage lines that derive from high-ranking officers and champions are treated differently, with a sort of reverence. To be the descendant of a hero of the Chapter means something, and as such the process of recruitment and training also includes an additional layer of testing and judgment, to determine which lineage each neophyte is to be made a part of.
 
It's an immense responsibility, a mortal child's promise of radiance, and many will crack under the pressure rather than live up to the heavy expectation. Marines with the blood of legends are given priority and attention, while those of more common lineage may find themselves passed over in spite of their own accomplishments. It is a common practice for older Marines to show favor and provide tutelage to a younger Marine born from that older Marine's first removed gland. Though greater importance is placed on the second gland, for it is removed only upon death. To be implanted with gene-seed derived from the second gland is to be the inheritor of an entire lifetime; not just the continuation of the bloodline but a true heir.
 
This path of lineage is everything to the Imperial Dragons. When the modern identity of the Chapter became set, the tree became the most defined and well recorded. Prior to that, there are only vague myths. Now, any Primaris Marine that reinforces the Imperial Dragons is going to be completely removed from their ancestry. They may also be sons of Dorn, but it's not their lineage to the primarch that they place this reverence. They are all sons of Dorn, after all. The easy, shallow answer is to say the Chapter ostracizes the Primaris, excluding them as not being true Imperial Dragons.
 
Main option I'm considering is to simply create a new ancestry chain based off of the gene-seed of the Primaris reinforcements, that will be built up as more Primaris are created by the Chapter itself. Now, the Imperial Dragons don't consider each lineage to be equal, so to avoid the Primaris ancestry being given less prominence, we either need to create a Primaris hero or two, or have the Imperial Dragons recognize the greater proximity of the Primaris gene-line to their father primarch. If the Imperial Dragons feel like the Primaris Marines are somehow more Dornian than they are, it adds greater relevance to the Primaris lineage.
 
We don't really know (yet) how new Primaris Marines are made, though we do know that Chapters are given the ability to make them. So what follows here is basically me making something up about how that process might work in favor of the Imperial Dragons' existing ancestries. This may be contradicted by later lore, but perhaps I can still work with it as my headcanon. 
 
Okay, so what if what makes a Primaris Marine a Primaris is simply an adjustment of existing genetic stock. In other words, you don't need Primaris progenoid glands to make Primaris gene-seed to make Primaris Marines. By using the method and means provided by Cawl, existing stock can be used. If so, or if I just say that it's so for the sake of my DIY, then that would mean that each successive generation of Primaris Marines could originate from any of the Chapter's lineages.
 
This would take time, by the very nature of the process it would be multiple generations before a full conversion of the Primaris gene-line to the Imperial Dragon lineages can occur, but it's a process that can be started. And the beginning of such a process would be more interesting than its conclusion, in my opinion.
 
med_gallery_77459_13226_256940.png
 
Outside of the genetics, the Imperial Dragons would also have an organizational obstacle for the Primaris. The Chapter structure is very deviant, a legacy from an internal heresy and two centuries' worth of penitent crusades. Their 10th Company Captain holds the official title of Chapter Master as far as the Imperium is concerned, but in truth has no authority over any of the Chapter's Grand Captains. Each Grand Captain has his own company, but also holds rank over two others and their captains, creating an additional Grand Company layer.
 
The Grand Companies are also bound by genetic legacy. Each Grand Company sponsors a medieval nation on their home world, actively fostering a near-eternal state of war. Each recruit is eventually forwarded to their patron Grand Company, a mortal blood legacy. In addition, the Chapter's gene-lines are divided into three great branches. Greatest of all are the first Grand Captains, those three officers who between them led the Chapter through its darkest period and back into the light.
 
Pictured above is a Primaris Marine wearing the black helm of the 10th Company (and thanks to Thorn for the image). Until the Chapter's gene-lines can be merged with the Primaris gene-seed, the Imperial Dragons would find it inappropriate to include them in any of the Grand Companies. So the initial load of reinforcements would find themselves part of the scout company simply because that's what's left. No new company, because they have no legacy to build one upon.
 
It would certainly mean a changed 10th Company though. This Captain holds the rank of Chapter Master, but his authority is not over the Chapter but in managing the Chapter's relations with the outside world. And the Chapter's future, which would certainly place him in high esteem. Certainly the highest position one could reach in the Imperial Dragons, outside of commanding a Grand Company. I'd like to see the officer leading the Primaris reinforcements to take this position, soon after their arrival. It would further cement their place within the Chapter, and can lead to other changes down the line.
 
For example, these Primaris are at this time creating their own Imperial Dragon legacy, new and separate from any previous legacy. In time, mortal children will be brought into that legacy. Tying that legacy to the Chapter's outward face as well as to the recruitment and training of future generations would be an interesting way to keep them distinct but relevant.

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#31
Kelborn

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You really nailed my thoughts about implementing Primaris in a chapter. I'll stick with my Tempestus Crusade as the BTs might be a really fitting example of how a Primaris force can differ from its progenitor / brothers.

 

While the Primaris resemble the idea of the Great Crusade and further, the Imperial Truth, the BTs are anything but this ancient ideology of a rational system.

 

Is it ok when I write my thoughts about it like you did or shall it be embodied in a story / fanfic situation?


tn_gallery_87379_12273_68539.jpg  tn_gallery_87379_12273_193556.jpg  tn_gallery_87379_12273_86064.png
 
Brotherhood of the Lost: XXth Legiones Astartes, the Predators http://www.bolterand...-the-predators/
Brotherhood of the Lost - The Icarion Insurrection: http://www.bolterand...od-of-the-lost/

#32
Conn Eremon

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How you tackle these experiments is up to you. You can post rewritten sections of your DIY article, a short story with a related narrative, or even just a stream of consciousness as you ponder the experiment and your DIY.

I'm not the fanfic narrative type of writer. Less BL, more GW/FW, quality of writing notwithstanding. :wink:

So you guys just get to see my thought processes that will, eventually, make it to an article format.
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#33
Kelborn

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:tu:

 

By the way...don't you mean 4th of September instead of 4th of August? :)


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Brotherhood of the Lost: XXth Legiones Astartes, the Predators http://www.bolterand...-the-predators/
Brotherhood of the Lost - The Icarion Insurrection: http://www.bolterand...od-of-the-lost/

#34
Conn Eremon

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Yes, yes I did. :tu: :P

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#35
Ace Debonair

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Well now, that is an interesting one.
 
Time for some pondering; how would the Silver Circle take to the Primaris marines? I imagine each chapter has their own views on the matter, so I'll tackle them one at a time.
 
 
 
The Champions of Athlum:
As my nephew's Chapter, he gets the final say on this, and the Primaris marines get a big thumbs-up from him. (Especially Reivers, those skull hats really swung it)
 
What that means for the lore: The Chapter that likes to specialise its' warriors and is often forced to fight smaller battles due to recruitment issues is going to embrace the heck out of the chance to provide their own reinforcements for a change. Primaris-centric battle lines reinforced by devastators, sternguard, vanguard and other specialised units will be the order of the day, where the older marines behave more like special forces within their own Chapter while the Primaris form the bulk of the line infantry.
 
The Champions like to think of themselves as having a strategy and a weapon for every occasion - so the chance to expand their options and their armoury is going to be gladly received by these sons of Guilliman. I can see them integrating quite smoothly, although doubtless some divisions would still remain.
 
The White Hawks:
 I imagine the Primaris would suffer a little bit in this Chapter. Bear in mind, these guys are glory-hunters extraordinaire. They have (or will have, can't remember if it was in the current version of their IA) an ingrained belief that death in battle is only a noble end if you are facing a foe who can be considered stronger than you, which means some of the grimmer Space Marines will raise the stakes - choosing to do things like forego the use of firearms in favour of glorious knife battles, so that when they die The Emperor will know they died with honour and valour.
 
So when you have a bunch of Space Marines who are naturally bigger and better than their brothers, if they're not doing proportionately greater deeds to go with their enhanced stature, then the other Hawks are probably going to be insufferable, saying things like "Well I expect it's easy when you're a foot taller and packed with a hundred extra pounds of muscle" every time the Primaris do something that would have your typical Hawk boasting forever.
 
Which in turn is probably going to lead to an awful lot of Primaris marines killing stuff in spectacular fashion with knives to make themselves seem cooler to their older brothers.
 
 
The Brotherhood of Crows:
Let's see. The Brotherhood is merciless and known to think of themselves as weapons rather than heroes or soldiers. The Primaris marines, therefore, would simply be more weapons to the Brotherhood, and ones that they could soon find a use for.
 
They also like to think of themselves as the most powerful Chapter in the Circle, so they would happily adopt Primaris marines simply so the other Chapters don't have something the Brotherhood doesn't.
 
I'm not certain if BA Primaris suffer from the Red Thirst and Black Rage, or at least with the same frequency of their pre-Primaris brothers, but in any case I can totally see the Brotherhood augmenting their Death Company with Primaris marines, just to add a little extra awe to their 'shock-and-awe' approach to attacking targets.
 
The Warminds:
I can't think of another Chapter, canon or DIY, that would embrace Primaris marines with the same absolute, unconditional, All-our-Christmases-at-once joy that the Warminds would.
 
This is a Chapter doomed to a slow but inevitable death. Their geneseed is a catastrophe, working only on recruits from one world, and even then suffering all the usual implementation issues common to the Raven Guard. Even fresh stock brought in from the Raven Guard directly is quickly mutated by the radiation from the Glastheim Rifts.
 
Sure, the high chance of psychic powers is a boon, but even they are tied to proximity to the Rifts, and the low recruitment rate coupled with constant, endless war, is killing the Chapter, bit by bit.
 
Then along come the Primaris marines, who have, by all accounts, none of the issues previously associated with Raven Guard geneseed, opening up dozens of potential recruitment worlds and giving the Warminds a chance to finally thwart their previously inevitable extinction-by-attrition.
 
Even if the Primaris geneseed proves to be as mutable as the regular stuff,  eventually mutating and causing the same outbursts of organ failure and/or psychic powers, the Warminds have a new lease on life for the moment, and that is surely a cause for celebration within the Chapter.
 
I think they'd literally have an annual Primaris Celebration Day.
 
 
The Silver Suns:
 
Uh... they're an Ultima Founding Chapter, so I guess they're probably pretty OK with Primaris marines. laugh.png
No self-loathing or existential angst issues to be found here, although they would like all the old guard to maybe give them a little more respect, given they did kind of roll up and save the day...
 
 
The Abyssal Host:
Oh yeah, these guys. Much like the Silver Suns, the details for these guys are still very much in development. So I'm not sure quite how much to say about the Abyssal Host just yet.
 
I daresay they'll be quite interested in Primaris reinforcements, though. Having their recruitment world besieged by the Hatecrowned will certainly leave the Chapter with less recruits to draw from than they'd like, and the Abyssal Host will certainly be glad to bring their numbers back up to something resembling a proper, functioning Chapter again.
 
 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 
As a separate note though, I'd like to add that the existence of the Reivers is something that most of the Circle would really relish, and might even be a deciding factor on their stance towards Primaris marines.
 
* The Champions of Athlum see a specialised infiltration and ambush unit, well-suited for close-up work, complete with their own fancy grenades.
* The Brotherhood of Crows see a useful tool to terrify renegades and heretics, beyond that having utility for chasing or baiting enemies into killing grounds.
* The Abyssal Host see a plethora of interesting goodies, grav-chutes, shock grenades, sonic-projector masks, heavy bolt pistols and especially the customised armour, and say to themselves "I wonder how much tinkering with these we can get away with".
* The White Hawks see Space Marines with knives the size of Chainswords and a way to finally get knife kills on tanks without taking all day about it, for maximum glory.
 

Of course, the Warminds see their future, as in all Primaris, and the Silver Suns just see (for example) Battle-Brother Belevaunt, but my point is that everyone in the Circle endorses the Reivers heartily.
 
Which is fine by both me and my nephew, since the models are AWESOME and just crying out for us to paint them.laugh.png



#36
Conn Eremon

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I'm not certain if BA Primaris suffer from the Red Thirst and Black Rage, or at least with the same frequency of their pre-Primaris brothers, but in any case I can totally see the Brotherhood augmenting their Death Company with Primaris marines, just to add a little extra awe to their 'shock-and-awe' approach to attacking targets.

 

Here's what I know, per the Dark Imperium novel.

 

According to Cawl (through his not-quite-AI secondary self), genetic mutation has a 0.0001% deviancy rate. All gene-lines can now make use of the full suite of Space Marine organs, and both the Blood Angels and Space Wolves are noted for showing no signs of regression towards previous unstable states.

 

That said, idiosyncratic traits were intentionally retained. Examples shown include an Unnumbered Son of Ferrus Manus having a dour demeanor and extensive bionic replacements, a hirsute Unnumbered Son of Leman Russ being exuberantly excited about battle, and an Unnumbered Son of Sanguinius having notably lengthened eye teeth.

 

Take that as you will.


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#37
Ace Debonair

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Most interesting. ph34r.png

 

Either way, I figure putting Primaris in the Death Company is very much a Brotherhood of Crows thing to do. Either you add some giant frenzied vampires to your company of frenzied vampires, or you add some perfectly sane and rational tactician vampires to your company of frenzied vampires.

 

It's a win-win situation, really. laugh.png



#38
Conn Eremon

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It also doesnt help that Cawl's sources of data might not be as comprehensive as we're led to believe.

A Primaris Chapter, descended of Sanguinius himself, might not be the most forthcoming when asked for genetic test samples. Not after what happened. May it never happen again.

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#39
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My Supernovas lore in the fiction section has been exploring this idea quite a bit already. I'm sure I can put together something else along these lines.

"Taekar!" - Supernovan motto, battle cry, insult and general-purpose word.

 

gallery_48988_11572_4635.png gallery_77459_13226_2824.png


#40
Conn Eremon

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EXPERIMENTUM PRIMARIS-dalet

Coexistence

 

Chapters formed during the century-long Ultima Founding have been scattered across the galaxy, shoring Imperial defenses or crusading through enemy lines. Eight Primaris Chapters are stationed within the reformed Greater Ultramar alongside the Ultramarines and Scythes of the Emperor, and most remain unnamed. That great rift that was torn across the galaxy is watched over by a host of watchers, such as the Wolfspear who guard the Crusade's final triumph. Though the Indomitus Crusade may only have gone from major conflict to another, the original Primaris Chapters and those calved from the Crusade have spread to every shadowed corner. Few in number are those who have not encountered the newest scions of the primarchs.

 

The exact number of Chapters founded is not yet known, but may number well over a hundred. The intent behind the Indomitus Crusade and Ultima Founding is such that the majority of the Imperium has been in some way affected. Though the galaxy is vast, the Imperium can often feel very tightly packed as the scope of it and its denizens are taken into account. Subsectors, sectors and segmentums are simply administrative divisions, but crossing these lines are uncountable, overlapping domains and petty fiefdoms. A Space Marine Chapter will often have more than just a world in its possession, they will have claimed for themselves a zone of responsibility. Few will be as official or consolidated as Ultramar, but they will often exist nonetheless. A forgeworld's reach can be defined by the path of its output, a crusade its conquests and targets. Any of these can have a new Chapter placed suddenly within it. An ally probably, but also potentially a rival.

 

This then is the third experiment, to create a new Primaris Chapter stationed within your DIY's sphere of influence.

 

How much depth you go into for the new Chapter is entirely up to you. Creating a new Chapter is not the purpose of this particular experiment, your existing DIYs remain the focus. These are not Primaris reinforcements, but a completely separate force. The purpose here is to introduce the Primaris as an active player in your DIY's figurative backyard, and to explore what that means. The interaction between your DIY and this new Chapter. The impact this Chapter has. What does it mean to your Space Marine Chapter, that a Primaris Chapter stations itself next door? What if your regiment was raised from a world now claimed by the Adeptus Astartes? In a perhaps more dire situation, a Primaris Chapter could be tasked with reclaiming worlds your Chaos warband had conquered.

 

This experiment concludes the set introducing new lore into our existing DIYs. The next set, creating new DIYs within the new lore, will begin September 18th.


Edited by Conn Eremon, 30 September 2017 - 05:03 PM.

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#41
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I'm curious how the "founding" of the Primaris Acolytes of Zeal impacted their neighbours. Anyone in the galactic north, feel free to borrow them for your own ends.

"Taekar!" - Supernovan motto, battle cry, insult and general-purpose word.

 

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#42
Conn Eremon

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Took me a bit to post this up. Had something ready to go, but it was kinda a mishmash of both narratives showing the ‘truth’ of events. Since I intend to use the Primaris Chapter for the next set of experiments, I rewrote the following to be just from the perspective of the existing Chapter.
 
=+=
 
So! The Honored Brethren (not yet posted to the B&C) are an ancient Ultramarine successor of indeterminate age. As their name implies, the Chapter goes to any number of lengths for the sake of glory and unmatched feats of heroism, abiding by a strict code of honor that has at times run counter to Imperial designs. The Brethren’s reputation precedes them wherever they go, placing them in leadership roles over many joint operations. More than simple awe for being in the presence of the Angels of Death, or the practical assessment of their capabilities, a form of hero-worship often builds among Imperial commanders who fight alongside them.
 
The Chapter does nothing in half-measures, and often deploys to large, multi-theater campaigns in full Chapter strength. So it was that the Brethren were a welcome sight to the commanders forming the Archein Crusade. Since the close of the 41st millennium and the burst of warp activity across the galaxy, there has been a rash of uprisings and cult activity. The Archein Crusade had formed among remaining loyalists to retake their fallen sector on the galactic edge of Segmentum Pacificus, yet the Brethren were the sole responders to their petitions for aid. Granting the Brethren overall crusade command was an easy sacrifice to make for the Chapter to formally involve itself.
 
The crusade, even with the full weight of the Brethren behind it, got off to a rocky start. The enemy cults were not inclined to meet the Imperial forces in conventional warfare. Though the Brethren and Militarum met and annihilated all traitor guard armies that dared to meet them in open combat, the cult leaders would slip from Imperial fingers and disappear once more among the populace. More than few taken worlds would erupt once more into violence thanks to these instigators. Voices that spoke in favor of taking a sterner hand against the people of taken worlds were quickly silenced by the Brethren, who refused to countenance underhanded tactics no matter the antics of the enemy.
 
News from the rest of the Imperium came on the heels of the freshly formed Crimson Specters, a so-called ‘primaris’ Chapter sent from an Imperium-wide Indomitus Crusade to augment war efforts in the Archein Sector. The Specter leadership met with that of the Brethren and the rest of the mortal forces to be debriefed on the current state of affairs. It being as an amiable debriefing, tensions rose when the Specters criticized the crusade efforts for failing to adapt to the enemy. The primaris did not accept Brethren command, and vowed that they would bring the crusade to a swifter close with the more subtle strategies of their gene-father Corax.
 
Initially, the Specters did attempt coordination with the Brethren, committing interdiction units among the population to weed out fleeing cult leaders while nearby battles are waged in the traditional way. A series of guerilla battles ensue across many Archein worlds, to the dismay of the Brethren. More than one of the Brethren’s battles were unceremoniously interrupted by hidden Specters. The primaris chapter announced their efforts to have met incredible successes, and many cult leaders were remanded to Brethren custody. However, upon interrogation they were revealed to be nothing more than lowly cultists or even innocents caught by a wide net, though they were executed together all the same.
 
Sightings of these cult leaders instigating further rebellion on other worlds proved the Specters’ mistakes. This became a pattern, and soon all worlds of the sector were once more erupting with rebellion, corruption and heresy. As each cult was uprooted, more would take its place or it would be found once more upon another world. Each cult was distinctive, and often even at odds with each other, yet always well placed to resist Imperial efforts. It was as if some twisted patron flitted beyond the curtain of reality, from world to world, lending power to all who would just use it.
 
It was the Specters who first brought their grievances into the open amid the council of commanders, insisting that the Brethren were somehow allowing prisoners to escape, and hampering crusade efforts by failing to coordinate properly with the Specters. They brought before them damning evidence in the form of captive cult leader Pasual Calazar of the glyph-builders, a cult that had spread to three systems and previously captured. The Brethren countered with pict-records of Calazar’s interrogation and subsequent execution. Incensed by the accusations, the Brethren leveled their own complaints at the inglorious tactics of the Specters, citing multiple battles the Brethren had failed to fight to full conclusion thanks to the primaris hiding among the shadows and mud.
 
The veteran status of the revered Brethren lent their words greater weight, and the Specters found their words fall on deaf ears. The crusade rages on, though the relationship between the chapters soured greatly. As both chapters expected, the difficulties of coordination and mistrust between them continued. Matters once more come to a head when the Brethren refuse to stand down or alter tactics when their frontlines encounter Specter skirmishers. No more battles will be lost because of the disreputable antics of the Specters. The Specters are quickly forced to retreat lest they are caught in the crossfire. Once more insults and accusations let fly. The Brethren are accused of harboring heretics and fostering cults, a base deception that further proves the Specters false.
 
And no longer will the Brethren allow their name to be so dishonored.

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#43
Ace Debonair

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So, given that I'm already working (slowly) on the Silver Suns, do they count for the purposes of this experiment?

 

If they do, then I'm in a fairly good place.

 

If you want a different perspective, I can tackle how the malevolent, secretive Chaos force known as the Blades of Atracia (and by association, their vassals and attendants) look at the arrival of the Silver Suns (and the rest of the loyalists' Primaris marines in general).



#44
Conn Eremon

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I'd save your Silver Sun perspectives for the next set of experiments, like I am with my Crimson Specters.

 

The Blades of Atracia would be a great perspective to serve as a replacement.


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#45
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*cracks knuckles* Right then. Let's get down to business!

 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

They called it the Long War.

 

But the truth is that the downfall of the Imperium is inevitable. Time is the key, the knife that inflicts the gravest wounds. The weapon that only the patient can wield.

 

If ten millennia of warfare, sustained by the power of the Great Gods, has taught Firstblade Maluk, Master of the Runefaust, Speaker for Atracius and Lord of the Glastheim Rifts anything, it is the power of patience.

 

Admirable though the Warmaster's goal is, the Imperium is too large to shatter with a single strike, no matter how well-placed.

 

But with time, and with patience, a hundred, a thousand tiny cracks in that great, impenetrable defence begin to appear. Alone, they are insignificant victories - a shallow, nigh-unnoticeable mark on the perfect armour of the Imperium. But, with enough time, enough patience, those cracks can grow and become fractures - a great and destructive web of wounds that lacerate the carcass of the Corpse-God's domain.

 

Each victory, each step forward, each mind or heart swayed to the side of the Gods - can become a fracture that sunders the armour of the hated Emperor. That is the lesson of the Long War.

 

When the Black Crusade came, it changed everything. The Sword of the Gods struck at the armour of the Emperor, and it rang the death knell for billions of lives. The Glastheim Rifts, home of the Blades of Atracia and their sworn subjects, was the battleground that heralded the coming of the Gods, and their most faithful servants. The Blades of Atracia sought to claim what was rightfully theirs.

 

The Silver Circle - that thrice-cursed pack of delusional, misguided, bloody-minded hounds, fought with the ferocity of wounded animals, tearing apart the disposable cults and vassals alike with fury and hatred, never once pausing to realise the lives they took were from those who had, once, also called the Corpse-God their master.

 

But with each loyalist dog put down by the Faithful, a further crack appeared in the Circle. At Maluk's bidding, his vassals attacked. The Hatecrowned, the Twisted Carnival, the Storm Princes, and a dozen others, all waging war in the name of the Gods, turning those cracks into fractures.

 

And then, at the breaking point, something unexpected.

 

For as the armour of the Imperium held against the Warmster's Crusade, despite the fractures, the Silver Circle did not break. Their salvation was borne into battle on unfamiliar wings - giants clad in polished armour that shone bright in the light of the dawning day.

 

And these silver giants - and others like them - fought back against the Blades of Atracia, their victories undoing plans hundreds, thousands of years in the making, scourging away the cracks and fractures, and making whole the armour of the Silver Circle once more.

 

 

But Maluk is nothing if not patient. Even as his Riftmarks rage against these upstarts, and look to act rashly against them, Maluk watches the Glastheim Rifts impassively. And part of him welcomes the challenge - a test by the Gods, Atracius calls it. The Daemon's wisdom is welcomed by the Firstblade. The Blades of Atracia will weave their web of wounds anew, and this time, there will be no salvation.

 

Let the Imperium have its day. Let them see, by the cold light of their Corpse-God, the horror of the wounds they have suffered. Let them have the day, knowing full well that no power exists in the galaxy that can stop the night from coming again.

 

The Long War continues. When a thousand cuts is not enough, then inflict a thousand more.

 

This... setback... is nothing to one who has learned patience.



#46
Conn Eremon

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Experimentum Ultima-gimel

The 27th Founding

 

Chapters formed from the most recent Founding, the second Founding done at Lord Guilliman's direct order, have taken shape very differently than those of many other Foundings. First among the Ultima Founding are those whose brotherhoods were forged in a near-forgotten age, then held in stasis for millennia. Chapters were restored wholesale, the primaris pulled from that ancient time to fight familiar foes. The Unnumbered Sons were a temporarily assembled force, and many of the primaris within were assigned not to reinforce older Chapters but to form new ones around themselves. And so were all those primaris held in stasis for ten thousand years distributed, but that  does not account for all primaris. Along with their awakening came the widespread dissemination of the practice of creating more of the augmented Astartes breed, and surely more Chapters still were founded in the traditional manner utilizing the primaris augmentation. More so still, all 18 strains of gene-seed accepts the primaris augmentation, erasing flaws while retaining character traits. Only two restrictions on gene-seed use exist: that the Wolfspears may have been both the first and last Space Wolf successor since the ill-fated Wolfbrothers and that, in spite of Cawl's insistence, Guilliman flat refuses use of traitor gene-seed. As ever, it is difficult for the Imperium to keep perfect record and it is unclear how many Chapters were formed in the Ultima Founding. Contradictory evidence suggests that they may have ranged from dozens to hundreds.

 

At the moment, there are very few Ultima Founding DIYs. A lot of this is because it's new and not yet fully developed in canon, so there's a hesitation to create a DIY that depends too much on lore that Games Workshop hasn't yet produced. Doesn't stop us from having ideas however, so think of this as a safe place to develop them without worry of what GW hasn't yet elaborated upon. This is a sandbox within which you can play with and explore your ideas, and nothing need be set in stone if you want to wait until the lore stabilizes.

 

This then is the fourth experiment, to develop and expand upon a newborn Primaris Chapter.

 

The Ultima Founding is not a normal founding, and the primaris Chapters can have quite a few different origins that can affect their history and character quite a bit. Some of these Chapters existed in their current form from as far back as during the Scouring. Though they've been kept in stasis during the intervening years, their identity was formed quite a bit further than nearly any other Chapter founded since then. Other Chapters were created around Unnumbered Sons formations, giving the Chapter the Indomitus Crusade as part of their history, much like how the 2nd Founding Chapters may include the Great Crusade as their history. In addition, some of these crusader Chapters may have been Founded as little more than a Company in strength. More Chapters still will have been formed from scratch, the primaris marines having neither been in stasis or the Unnumbered Sons. Even the oldest of these Chapters will be half as young as those Chapters formed during the 26th Founding when the timeline ended at the close of the 41st Millennium. There are many elements to consider for these Chapters, such as home worlds. No worlds were pre-selected a century prior, no monolithic efforts to construct fortress-monasteries. Perhaps this means that most primaris Chapters will be fleet-based, and yet only one of the canon Chapters is given to be fleet-based, though half remain unknown.

 

This experiment will run through to October 2nd.


Edited by Conn Eremon, 30 September 2017 - 05:04 PM.

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#47
Conn Eremon

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This is kind of a repeat of my last submission, to be told from the perspective of the Crimson Specters. I|Both narratives are based around events I'm still coming to grips with, so there are changes. I've already posted this Chapter once before, as a 26th Founding Chapter that pretty closely tied to more of a group effort creation. I've always meant to distance them from that original creation, keeping only those ideas I had contributed (which to be frank was most of it). They were always meant to come across as young, so shifting them to the Ultima Founding seemed like the obvious choice.

 

 

CRIMSON SPECTERS

 

The Crimson Specters Chapter was formed around a company of the Unnumbered Sons of Corax following victory at the Pit of Raukos. Though the primaris space marines had gained experience during the Indomitus Crusade, even the eldest of them had only been waging war in the Emperor's name for a mere handful of decades. Therefore comparably young and inexperienced, none would be so foolish as to think them weak, friend or foe. The Crimson Specters were formed with simple orders. Though the Indomitus Crusade had concluded, the Imperium remained gripped by war upon all sides and at every corner. The Crimson Specters were to lend their strength to one such warzone, the Archein Crusade.

 

Small in numbers and lacking a recruitment stock of their own, the Crimson Specters stopped upon a feral world along the way. Simply designated as CVF-52 on Imperial astral maps, or Tarre in the tongue of its native peoples, there was no Imperial authority claiming dominion that could deny the Specters their needs. Tens of thousands of Tarren were taken from their world, men, women and children. Most were indoctrinated into serfdom, while promising youths were put through the hunter trials to become primaris space marines. Though this influx was great, and the Specters were delayed and tested frequently en route, their numbers had only barely doubled when their ships finally broke Archein space.

 

ARCHEIN CRUSADE

 

The Crimson Specters arrive to a subsector riddled with cults fermenting sacrilege and rebellion, Imperial forces valiantly uprooting and stamping them out. It was clear upon their debrief however that the Crusade's efforts were not enough to end the war. The Honored Brethren, an ancient and revered Chapter, had focused the Crusade on treating the symptoms of rebellion only. The Specters pointed out that the rebellious forces so readily annihilated by the Brethren and other Crusade forces showed all the hallmarks of hidden ringleaders far removed from the field of battle. These shady figures were escaping to foster further unrest, causing cults believed to have been purged to rise once more. To fully erase these cults, these unknown factors would need to be rooted out first. The Crusade accepted the Specters, but were clearly irritated when the Specters declined to accept the Honored Brethren as in overall command. The Honored Brethren, in turn, declined to accommodate the Specters' tactical recommendations.

 

Nonetheless, the Specters were certain of the need for a more subtle approach as their earliest battles would attest. The Crimson Specters spread their smaller numbers not along the drawn battle lines but within population centers, tracking vox traffic and surveilling the darker recesses of human society. As the heretics were slaughtered among the killing fields, the Specters conducted pinpoint raids against suspected ringleaders. Though their efforts were met with disdain by the Brethren, after a few short years many of the reclaimed worlds showed true compliance and peace, the first since the crusade began. It did not always go as smoothly however, and more than once the Brethren interfered with the Specters by unleashing full assaults directly upon locations concealing the sons of the Raven.

 

The Crimson Specters were not content to remain low in number either, and were on the constant lookout for potential recruitment stock. This was eventually found on the Imperial world of Hana'dia. Its population was civilized, advanced, but not so large and burdensome as to be classified a hive world. What drew the attention of the Specters was their resolute nature. Twenty-four documented cases of cults attempted to take root on the world, and yet it was just as often the efforts of the native Hana rather than the crusaders that saw rebellions quelled. Many youths that fought in the Hana guerrilla militia were taken by the Specters. Far fewer of the Hana were taken than the Tarren, but here the Specters were looking solely for potential recruits not just to supplement the veteran Unnumbered Sons but to bring the Crimson Specters to full Chapter strength.

 

The scouts and neophytes of the Specters outnumbered the full battle-brothers by an order of magnitude, which suited their methods of war. The Archein Crusade instilled within these newest Specters the virtues of patience and observation, and the Chapter began to accumulate a log of of the intricate, seemingly disparate network of cults and their shadowy leaders. Armed with such knowledge, the Specters were able to more quickly locate and eradicate them within their dens and hideouts. Captured cult leaders were given over to Crusade command for interrogation and execution, and even the Brethren began to quiet in the face of their success, though it proved to be short-lived.

 

FAILURE OF BROTHERHOOD

 

It began on Hana'dia, of all worlds. Two cults arose simultaneously, and at their forefront were, fully exposed, heretical men and women the Specters had previously claimed eliminated on a distant world of the Archein Subsector. Crusader forces returned to Hana'dia to squash the cults with overwhelming force, and while the Specters confusedly reviewed their mission logs the Brethren were quick to denounce them for their mistakes. The incident on Hana'dia proved not to be an isolated event, and many worlds rendered compliant began to stir again to rebellion. Once more, those heretics that had previously clung to the darkness for safety now openly made themselves known as if to deliberately prove lie to the Specters' efforts. The primaris Chapter ceased giving over capture heretics, choosing instead to execute the traitors themselves. This earned them ire from the rest of the Crusade, and even the Brethren questioned if the Specters had simply stopped a charade that had proven false.

 

Angered at the claim and made suspicious by their own findings, the Specters called for a meeting among the Crusade's leadership. There the Specters threw before them the evidence of their investigation. Blood-samples of the returned ringleaders were compared to those taken upon their original capture or extermination. Few were matches, and each match was a captive whose custody had been handed to the Honored Brethren for questioning. The Specters asked for the Brethren to provide proof that they had carried out their disposal. The Brethren were livid at the accusation, and reminded their audience of generals and admirals that the Specters have been inducting recruits from the very world that had first shown signs of returning corruption, pointedly wondering if the same corruption may have found its way into the newborn Chapter's ranks. Bristling, the Specters leveled their unspoken accusation clearly, declaring that the Honored Brethren have been providing safe harbor for heretics and are actively involved in the further fostering of cult activity in the Archein Subsector.

 

The council of officers exploded into shouting and angry gestures, the majority of which directed at the Specters. Seeing that for all the evidence and logic supporting their conclusion, it was the history and charisma of the Brethren that lent their word more weight among the mortal commanders, the Specters departed with one last word.

 

med_gallery_77459_13226_203666.png

 

"No matter the foe or ally, we will do the Emperor's will. All opposed shall fall."


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#48
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I'm curious how the "founding" of the Primaris Acolytes of Zeal impacted their neighbours. Anyone in the galactic north, feel free to borrow them for your own ends.

With regard to my Void Reavers

Without writing anything in particular I can say it wouldn't end well. The Void Reavers are basically reviled by the Imperial Cult and are at the time of the Indominus Crusade in the midst a siege by a coalition of worlds, and attendant Imperial fleets united by their faith and their hate of the chapter... Given your chapter's close ties to the imperial cult it is quite likely that they'd join in. Probably seeing the Void Reavers as heretics (basically true) and traitors to the Imperium (not even close)


17.jpg

*Due note that I'm a fan of the fluff, not the Table Top game.*


#49
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OK, so here's what I've got for the Silver Suns so far.

It's VERY incomplete, and still in the slightly-expanded-bullet-points stage, so everything is subject to change, but here it is:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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* Colours not yet finalised, consider this an 'artist's impression' of the Silver Suns for the time being *

The Silver Suns were the Indomitus Crusade's gift to the Glastheim Rifts.

Though they were young and inexperienced by the standards of Space Marines, they spent their earliest years fighting across the galaxy in some of the bloodiest conflicts of the Crusade, continuously honing their craft as they were called upon again and again to slay the enemies of mankind.

Entrusted by Guilliman to restore the Glastheim Rifts to Imperial control, the Silver Suns swore to honour the wishes of their gene-sire and immediately hurtled towards the Glastheim Rifts, arriving in time to turn the tide of the Battle of Athlum, and later the Siege of Drakon Primus and the fall of Warboss Gorspit.

The Silver Suns have, since those early days, taken the world of Prontera as their homeworld. A hive world that has proven to be something of a prize target for pirates and heretics over the centuries, Prontera is now perhaps the best-defended world with any proximity to the Glastheim Rifts. The Fortress Monastery of the Silver Suns is a sprawling building, combining the traditional home of a Chapter with a military academy. In a rough emulation of Macragge, recruits are trained from infancy and put through a series of increasingly difficult tests as they grow old enough to become Space Marines. Those that fail the tests without significant injury are often seconded to one of several regiments around the system, further contributing to the defence of the Rifts.

The Chapter believes themselves to be a new breed for a new age - hand picked by the Primarch to succeed where all others failed. Since their days in the Indomitus Crusade, the Silver Suns have been frontline soldiers, engineered from the ground up to be beyond the strength of any possible foe.

The Silver Suns say this not as a matter of pride, however, instead seeing it instead as a huge mantle of responsibility to live up to. Every other Chapter in the Circle represents a benchmark that must be passed in order for the Silver Suns to truly live up to their Primarch's wishes.

Through their utter devotion to their mission, the Silver Suns have come to believe that only in war are Space Marines truly complete, and continuously study combat techniques, tactics and strategy, alloying combat practice even with their other duties, such as forging weapons or daily meditations. They shy away from ambush tactics and other 'underhanded' approaches, feeling that to fight in a manner unworthy of Primarch and Emperor is the greatest shame.

In combat the Silver Suns fight in the straightforward, focused and effective manner typical of Primaris marine formations, although their Reivers typically eschew the 'terror tactics' common to their role in favour of acting as pursuit and support units, chasing down any foe unwise enough to flee the wrath of the Silver Suns.


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Still to do:

1] Work on expanding and integrating the homeworld's culture some more (that's where the Arthurian/Ancient China/Other influences will come from)

2] Identify how the censored.gif Primaris Chapters are supposed to be considered anything like as tactically flexible as regular marines and make the Silver Suns combat doctrine more well-rounded and solid

3] Figure out how the Suns feel about the Codex Astartes, Guilliman (the-once-and-future-Primarch angle is one I'm considering strongly) and The Emperor, not to mention regular Space Marines.

4] Figure out how the rest of the Circle view the Suns

5] Figure out how the Suns see the rest of the Circle and give some examples of interaction

6] Probably a hundred other things
  • Machine God likes this

#50
Kelborn

Kelborn

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
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  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: BotL: XXth Legion - Predators

How did I miss this?

 

Maybe I got some spare time later on for uploading my current Warbeasts. Though it's nothing more than notes and some ideas, this might be a got time to revise these and expand upon.


tn_gallery_87379_12273_68539.jpg  tn_gallery_87379_12273_193556.jpg  tn_gallery_87379_12273_86064.png
 
Brotherhood of the Lost: XXth Legiones Astartes, the Predators http://www.bolterand...-the-predators/
Brotherhood of the Lost - The Icarion Insurrection: http://www.bolterand...od-of-the-lost/





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Liber, Liber Astartes, Liberites

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