Chaos Space Marines Champion Equipment

[ChaosReigns]

Hey guys,

 

So I was drafting up a list in Battlescribe and the program gave me an error message saying that I had taken too many weapon selections on one of my Aspiring Champions who has a power fist and combi-plasma. I looked at the Chaos Space Marines codex and sure enough, depending on how you parse the sentence on the wargear page, it may very well be that it is only possible to take either a combi-weapon or a melee weapon. I would say though that the intended meaning is not entirely clear based on the way the sentence is written. Have we received official confirmation of this from Games Workshop, one way or the other?

[Quixus]

It is rather clear. You can either take one of the ranged weapons or up to two from the other list. Unfortunately there is no ambiguity there. Combi weapon plus power fist is forbidden.

It gets even worse. No matter from which list you choose you have to turn in both basic weapons, meaning a champion with a combi weapon has neither a boltgun nor a bolt pistol

[Gothical]

To me, it reads that you can have EITHER two choices from the first list, OR one choice from the second - so you cannot take Power Fist and Combi-Weapon. This is rather annoying, but it does raise the value of the Plasma Pistol somewhat, and means for a shooting unit you actually have to decide what you want your Champ to specialise in.

 

Note that, unlike the Sergeant Equipment list in Codex: Space Marines, the Champion Equipment list says "Alternatively [to taking up to two weapons from the above] the Champion can...". This means that Marine Sergeants can have 3 upgrades (Pistol, CCW, Combi-Weapon) whilst a Champion is limited to just 1 or 2.

 

It is rather clear. You can either take one of the ranged weapons or up to two from the other list. Unfortunately there is no ambiguity there. Combi weapon plus power fist is forbidden.

It gets even worse. No matter from which list you choose you have to turn in both basic weapons, meaning a champion with a combi weapon has neither a boltgun nor a bolt pistol

 

OK, that I hadn't noticed - I assumed it was and/or like... oh, Codex: Space Marines has the same wording as CSM. This appears to be the new standard wording, completely replacing the old "trade one weapon for" style (on Sergeants - characters, thankfully, still get greater choice). In some ways I like the new wording, it means you can't dual-wield Combi-Weapons (applies to Loyalists and Traitors), but it is weird the CSM are more heavily restricted than normal Marines - perhaps to emphasize the more melee-centred nature of the army (but at the same time many models have a moulded-on Combi-Weapon plus Pistol/CCW/both)?

[Gothical]

Since my last post, GW have produced an FAQ for Codex: Chaos Space Marines, allowing them to take Combi-Weapons in addition to the other gear.

 

However, I am now unsure how many weapons a Champion can take (see bit in previous post about C:SM Sergeants getting 3).

 

Post-FAQ the two headers combined now say: "The Champion can take up to two weapons chosen from the following list... One if the Champion's weapons can be chosen from the following list..." To me this implies you can only take 2 weapons maximum (one of the previously referred to "up to two" can be a Combi-weapon).

 

Thoughts?

 

For reference, the wording in Codex: Space Marines that makes me believe they can take 3 weapons says "Up to two weapons can be chosen from the following list... One weapon can be chosen from the following list...", a subtle difference to the Chaos wording.

[totgeboren]

I read the new FAQ as the intent being that the Champ starts with two weapons, and then you can switch each weapon for one weapon from either the close range weapon list or the bolt-gun-weapon list. So the idea is that he can have two weapons, and starts off with two weapons.

 

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/40K_8th_ed_Update_Codex_Chaos_Space_Marines_ver_1.0.pdf

Edited August 21, 2017 by totgeboren