Ultramarine Primaris covered by RobMac

[Plaguecaster]

I actually look forward to it who cares what damn chapter they are,  its going to be pretty awesome having a Primaris focused novel as I really want to see more fluff on them, I dislike Ultramarines like any good chaos follower but they have some of the greatest and most interesting novels out there which are simply great reads like Know no fear and  the ones about Uriel ventris etc i am really looking forward to finding even more about Rob's upcoming novel as it sounds intereting and cant wait to read more of his work :)

[RobMac]

I feel like some woods are getting missed for the trees here. Ultimately character comes before Chapter/Legion - when people talk about disliking a Chapter in a story or novel, what they're often saying is they dislike the characters involved. Don't worry, the novel wouldn't have been pitched if it didn't have its own slant. 

 

Also more just out of interest than anything else, if you keyword search the names of the First Founding on the Black Library website these are the numbers of returns you get for each one:

 

Space Wolves: 148

Ultramarines: 137

Dark Angels: 116

Blood Angels: 83

Imperial Fists: 81

White Scars: 63

Salamanders: 62

Raven Guard: 59

Iron Hands: 56

[Kelborn]

Sincerest apologies if I'd used the wrong words / terms which led to the assumption of me disliking the UM or the fact that you're writing about them!

 

I don't dislike the Ultramarines. To be honest, the Ventris series was (along Ghaunts Ghosts and Bills Ragnar novels) the first stuff I've read from 40K.

 

I was just hoping for another chapter (and those search results do proof the fact that others could've get some more spotlight :)). Nothing more, nothing less. I'm getting tired of defending myself as I don't wanted to offend someone.

 

As I said for several times before: I'm eager to read it and see what you will do with them.

 

Can we just go on and leave that topic to rest?

 

My assumptions for this novel:

Interactions between Primaris and their Astartes brothers, from a Primaris pov. New characters. Some culture bits. MAYBE a foundation of a Primaris chapter.

[Claws and Effect]

I feel like some woods are getting missed for the trees here. Ultimately character comes before Chapter/Legion - when people talk about disliking a Chapter in a story or novel, what they're often saying is they dislike the characters involved. Don't worry, the novel wouldn't have been pitched if it didn't have its own slant.

 

Also more just out of interest than anything else, if you keyword search the names of the First Founding on the Black Library website these are the numbers of returns you get for each one:

 

Space Wolves: 148

Ultramarines: 137

Dark Angels: 116

Blood Angels: 83

Imperial Fists: 81

White Scars: 63

Salamanders: 62

Raven Guard: 59

Iron Hands: 56

Is it coincidental that the 3 Dropsite Massacre Legions are the 3 least represented in the lore?

 

Did they get stomped so hard even their STORIES got massacred?

Edited August 23, 2017 by Claws and Effect

[Mellow]

I feel like some woods are getting missed for the trees here. Ultimately character comes before Chapter/Legion - when people talk about disliking a Chapter in a story or novel, what they're often saying is they dislike the characters involved. Don't worry, the novel wouldn't have been pitched if it didn't have its own slant.

 

Also more just out of interest than anything else, if you keyword search the names of the First Founding on the Black Library website these are the numbers of returns you get for each one:

 

Space Wolves: 148

Ultramarines: 137

Dark Angels: 116

Blood Angels: 83

Imperial Fists: 81

White Scars: 63

Salamanders: 62

Raven Guard: 59

Iron Hands: 56

Ah-ha!

 

I've figured out the plot twist.

 

All of the Primaris marines are Alpha-legion meaning that Chaos finally get their corrupted hands on the Primaris gene-seed.

 

Much evil cackling ensues! :)

[DogWelder]

I hope Robmac gives the poor Ultramar Auxilia some love. They have an annoying habit of being killed to show how evil/powerful the enemy is in Ultramarine books. I mean, come on, they are one of the best trained mortal troops this side of the Segmentum. They should have moments where they shine

 

I'd also like it if there was slightly less focus on the Ultramarines this time and a bigger spotlight on the culture/state of Ultramar. A big draw of Ultramar is that its a wholly different culture to the rest of the Imperium and seems to have its distinct set of practices/beliefs etc. This was highlighted in several juicy moments in the Ultramarines and Iron Warriors books where this cultural clash was shown. 

 

For example in 'Beast of Calth', a foreign Inquisitor is astonished that the local authorities and Ultramar auxilia isn't too intimidated by her status and treats her just like a high ranking official. Or when she discovered that a few hundred dead in an industrial accident is considered a great disaster in Ultramar which resulted in mining rights being denied to the Adpetus Mechanicus on that region of the planet. 

 

The clash between Ultramar's more practical and 'normal' culture, which is a result of a stable society with a meritocratic system, and that of the wider Imperium offers several great scenarios to explore.

 

I also wonder about how everyone is reacting to the re-establishment of the 500 worlds and Guilliman's intention to station 10,000 Marines from the Ultramarine and Ultramarine successor chapters. Is this treated with disdain by the rest of the Imperium which considers it an exhuberant show of favoritism by the Ultramarines and their Primarch? 

Edited August 23, 2017 by DogWelder

[Marcus Arias]

Whilst my allegiance in quite clear (see profile), I think its great the Primaris are getting some fleshing out, the great thing is that different authors will give you a different perspective on the Space Marine, even more so with Primaris. Additionally with RobMac doing Ultramarines I am expecting a different sort of character to be portrayed to say an Abnett or a McNeil Ultramarine. SO safe to say any and all content regarding Primaris, regardless of Chapter representation will be good.

 

Based on the keyword search above, I goes to show that more stories about RG, Hands and Sallies need to be written! Which should be good to see!

[Jarl Caldersson]

I feel like some woods are getting missed for the trees here. Ultimately character comes before Chapter/Legion - when people talk about disliking a Chapter in a story or novel, what they're often saying is they dislike the characters involved. Don't worry, the novel wouldn't have been pitched if it didn't have its own slant. 

 

Also more just out of interest than anything else, if you keyword search the names of the First Founding on the Black Library website these are the numbers of returns you get for each one:

 

Space Wolves: 148

Ultramarines: 137

Dark Angels: 116

Blood Angels: 83

Imperial Fists: 81

White Scars: 63

Salamanders: 62

Raven Guard: 59

Iron Hands: 56

 

I wouldn't classify this as very functional or remotely usable.

 

SW's have 148 entries but they also have a number of artwork for sale and books likes "Fatespinner" which is a 1ksons book, 12 entries which are a single book "Scars" a white scar book and doesn't have much to deal with SW's IIRC (this also hits the white scars mere 63 to be actually be less than 52), and I don't know how many short stories which are are then also a complete book in as separate entries. Then you have books like the Salamanders Trilogy which is 1 entry but 3 books. 

 

I get what you were going for that some are under-represented, the SW, UM, and DA being very well represented. Meanwhile the IH, RG, Sallies being very under-represented. Just looking up words in BL isn't a good approach is all.

[Jarl Caldersson]

 

I really wish GW would get over their love for UM and it's 9000 successor chapters.

Every time I see, or hear anything pertaining to the UM or it's successors, it turns me further away from anything BL. It's ridiculous because we all love WH40k because of the stories!

*Sgt Blue and Battle Brother blue bro'ed so hard when the xenos came, Sgt Blue has nightmares and all he sees is battle brother blue dying by the xenos, and he can never save baby blue. Courage and honour and blue and stuff. Blue bullets, blue guns, for the Emperor. I'm blue, if I was green I would die...for the Emperor I would cry.*

 

Let's hear more about other Chapters, other things in the Dsrk Imperium.

 

I have to admit i don't understand this attitude. Does a good story become a bad one because of the chapter chosen? Would Red Tithe have been a bad novel if you replaced 'Carcharodon' with 'Ultramarine'?

 

I think the quality of the story and writing is far more important and relevant. Change the chapter name and colours, and Red Tithe would still be a good book. Likewise, even if you replaced the cast of the Damnos novels with Blood Angels, they'd still be mediocre.

 

Like i said, after reading Red Tithe, i trust Rob will provide a new view of the Ultramarines and tell a good story. (No pressure Mr Macniven)

 

 

I think it more deals with with both they are very well represented in both the number of books, but also the tabletops. Such as the number of characters, relic weapons, in their index/codex (i don't have the codex). The UM have 9 entries of wargear, meanwhile the IF/CF/RG/WS/Sallies only have 1, and the BT have 2. UM have 10 entries of unique units, IF/CF/RG/LOTD/Sallies have 1, and BT have 5.

 

There is also the fact that you constantly see every piece of artwork or reveal being painted UM colors. So there is going to be hate simply because they are so focused on. There is hate on SW's because they simply have unique units that aren't codex compliant. There is hate on DG and 1ksons because they go their own codex. Reivers are shown in GW colors but I would never see UM reivers in force but rather RG would and BA's. Yet there the sit in UM colors.

 

GW needs to represent other chapters more. As a new comer I only knew the 18 legions, wanting a loyalist made it 9, wanting a melee based made it 4 (RG/BA/SW/WS) wanting something more brutal and not full of stealth or bikes reduced it to 2 (BA/SW). I didn't go BA because they seemed focus on being the artist warriors, so I went SW. Later on did I start to read about the Flesh Tearers through SW books. Had I known about the Flesh Tearers, choosing  between the SW and FT would have been much much more difficult. I also hold the Sallies in great esteem so to see them not have their unique firedrake termies or unique flamethrowers available to them makes me a little upset at GW for not supporting that. Meanwhile the UM get a plethora of items to them and then get the first loyalist primarch back.

 

Hopefully you can see where some of the resentment comes. Some is envy, some is want to be ride of  the UM presence that suffocates their chapter, and some of it is the sheer over-representation.

[RobMac]

I know the numbers from a simple wordsearch wouldn't match the reality exactly, but all Chapters mentioned would suffer from some of the results not actually being about them. I'm pretty sure if you counted out the number of stories actually about those nine Chapters the order they come in would be exactly the same.

[Mellow]

I won't lie. I don't care about the bloody Ultramarines but I'm going to buy the book because RobMac has written that other book and I enjoyed it and I do like the idea of authors exploring the new bits of GS. There's going to be lots of stories about "being stuck on the dark side of the galaxy" but there's (to me at least) a big opportunity to explore how characters (not just special ones but any characters) view the Primaris or engage with one another. I've always been a massive fan of the politics bit in TBA so character interaction in post GS is all good.

[Scribe]

I feel like some woods are getting missed for the trees here. Ultimately character comes before Chapter/Legion - when people talk about disliking a Chapter in a story or novel, what they're often saying is they dislike the characters involved. Don't worry, the novel wouldn't have been pitched if it didn't have its own slant. 

 

Also more just out of interest than anything else, if you keyword search the names of the First Founding on the Black Library website these are the numbers of returns you get for each one:

 

Space Wolves: 148

Ultramarines: 137

Dark Angels: 116

Blood Angels: 83

Imperial Fists: 81

White Scars: 63

Salamanders: 62

Raven Guard: 59

Iron Hands: 56

 

I had no idea Kyme has written 62 books.

[Claws and Effect]

Not so much that more books have been written about them.

 

The sheer overabundance of UM characters versus the rest of the chapters gets really tiresome.

 

Mentioned above is the fact that the Ultramarines get 10 unique characters.

 

Everyone else:

 

Lysander - IF

Kantor - CF

Shrike - RG

Khan - WS

He'stan - Sals

Helbrecht - BT

Emperor's Champion - BT

Grimaldus - BT

 

Assuming I haven't forgotten anyone, that is 10 Ultramarines characters and 8 for the other 6 Chapters *combined*.

 

All you have to do to see the bias is walk into a GW store and look at the section marked "Space Marines"

 

Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves have their own kits. But every last box labeled Space Marines has dudes in blue on the front and an Ultramarine transfer sheet inside.

 

Yes, the story IS more important than who it is specifically about from an objective viewpoint.

 

But from a more subjective stance, people groan when they see more stories about one of the 4 Chapters we've had shoved down our throats for decades.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Claws and Effect

[tgjensen]

"Black Library should focus more on the other chapters!" Good grief.

 

Can you guys imagine what it might be like to not even care about Space Marines, but wanting to read about Necrons, Sisters of Battle or Orks?

 

They write about Space Marines over other factions because they sell more. They write about Ultramarines over other chapters for exactly the same reason. If you want Black Library to be more egalitarian in their coverage, they could start by drastically cutting down on Space Marines across the board.

[Mellow]

Don't even get me started on how the Eldar (who won the war in heaven for goodness sake) seem to get their arse handed to them in every book because "Humanity is the finest" (book sales, army sales etc)

 

BL makes the same mistakes in the opinion of readers because we want varied stories not Ultramarines-R-Us.

[DogWelder]

Don't even get me started on how the Eldar (who won the war in heaven for goodness sake) seem to get their arse handed to them in every book because "Humanity is the finest" (book sales, army sales etc)

 

BL makes the same mistakes in the opinion of readers because we want varied stories not Ultramarines-R-Us.

 

Didn't the Krorks also fight in the war of heaven? I feel they are much more powerful than the Eldar and contributed more.

[Mellow]

You're probably correct. Krorks are brilliant too.

 

But then so are the Necrons. 64 million years old. Amazing technology but it's ok. "Humanity wins" *rolly eyes*

[Conn Eremon]

This thread is about the upcoming novel written by B&C brother RobMac, not about spread of topic material across all of Black Library works.

 

I understand the frustration of those looking for good books outside of the Ultramarines in particular or Space Marines in general, but it is off-topic and ends here.

 

=][=

Conn

Edited August 26, 2017 by Conn Eremon