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[WB] 3k - Veterans Orbital Assault

Word Bearers XVII

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#1
okonomiyakimarine

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Hi all,

 

i am interested in expanding the small number of pre-heresy/heresy era Word Bearers. I painted three and a half squads grey so far, have the characters and true to my core interest in the Word Bearers and Horus Heresy – belief, strife, ambivalence etc. – I aim at portraying the Word Bearers as being on the edge to chaos and its mutating powers.

 

 

 

Ideas:

 

So fluff-wise it is clear that it cannot be an all Dark-Brethren or Daemon-Allies force. It should have a solid base of units that are used among all Legiones Astartes. Yet there need to be some units that lean towards the corrupting forces (that are on the edge) or already have stumbled into the oh so powerful darkness.

 

So i decided to go with Chosen Duty plus a number of supporting/standard space marines, a good but not especially big number of tanks and throw in a small number of Gal Vorbak.

 

Gameplay-wise the idea is to use the Leviathan and Vindicators aggressively to deploy the Veterans (re-actively to what the opponent does) and have the standard marines run ('hurried' by the chaplain) and drive the supporting flamers where needed to help clear/grab objectives. Lorgar, the diabolist and Gal Vorbak levitate and (try to) get the big fish.

 

Questions:

 

So it is pretty clear by now i guess that i do not play tournaments. Still I want a list that is not tabled every day. Or rather: I want to have a very fluffy and strong list.

 

What are the list's weaknesses? Any legal issues i missed? Any units you think i will need, but that I left out, because I am even worse with military strategies than Lorgar? Should I re-distribute the characters somehow or do they fit well where they are (fluff/gameplay).

 

The one change I thought of was flamers -> Gal Vorbak. I like the Support Squad (flamers) for fluff reasons, but it could be thrown out in favor of doubling the number of Gal Vorbak, if that makes a terrible list much better. Point wise that is pretty efficient and it would grant me the points to give Dark Channeling to the big blob of marines plus beef up vehicles. Yet this takes the number of scoring units down a little bit or quite a bit depending on the roll.

 

List:

Spoiler
 
Looking forward to your feedback. Thanks!
 

Edited by okonomiyakimarine, 24 October 2017 - 05:50 PM.


#2
mechadryad

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Chosen Duty is exclusive to the Delegatus and stops you from taking a LoW.



#3
Spiritual Liege

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I have no idea why would one need to take Tacticals in a Pride list.

#4
okonomiyakimarine

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Chosen Duty is exclusive to the Delegatus and stops you from taking a LoW.

oh, ofc. totally forgot. good you mention it.

 

I could run the same list as Pride of the legion ROW though as i do have two veteran squads as compulsory troops in the mandatory slots 1 and 2. Or do i have this wrong? Actually I could technically go without a ROW...

 

what about the list in general? cheers!

 

 


I have no idea why would one need to take Tacticals in a Pride list.

 

for a potentially scoring 20-marine blob with the chaplain and extra ccw?


Edited by okonomiyakimarine, 28 August 2017 - 10:49 AM.


#5
ChainMachete

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A 10 man tactical support unit with flamers is nice, but you'll often struggle to get all 10 flamers to shoot because you can't place a template over the base of one of your own models. I find 6 models is probably optimal, any more just being extra ablative wounds, which is fine, but it's one of the first places to cut points. Also a 5-6 man squad attracts a lot less attention than a full 10 man squad, so they may end up lasting longer anyway.

 

At 3k points, I'd really consider increasing your Gal Vorbak to 10 models. At that point level you'll regularly be coming across death-star style units that a 5 man squad will simply bounce off. I'd also give the Dark Martyr a power fist (5 S10 attacks on the charge) rather than a power weapon. Power weapons are fine on the squad members, but not the Dark Martyr. I prefer a couple of power mauls for the S7 since rending partially makes up for the AP4, but any power weapon will be pretty decent. Shame only characters can take tainted weapons, since I'd love to give them to Gal Vorbak squad members and the power fist is simply too good to consider taking anything else on the Dark Martyr.

 

If you really want a big blob of tacticals and don't want to put them in a transport, then you definitely need an Apothecary to keep them alive. And since you'll be using the sergeant to tank non-AP1&2 shots, I wouldn't bother giving him anything other than Artificer Armour (and possibly melta-bombs). I'd also think about giving them Dark Channeling - it's well worth the points on big 20 man blobs (though less so on smaller units).

 

I've never really seen the point of a Diabolist. Zardu Layek or Erebus also give you access to Dark Channeling, but bring a lot more to the table for their points. Particularly Zardu, who can sit in a tactical squad and summon heralds and lesser daemons all game long, or can run with your Gal Vorbak and boost them with Cursed Earth. And since both of them have Zealot, you have the option of saving a few points by downgrading your Chaplain to a Centurion. Or run Zardu with the Gal Vorbak and Lorgar and keep the Chaplain with the tacticals. Also with the Chaplain, you're paying for a power maul in his upgrade cost, so paying even more points for a power fist seems excessive (though I can see it looking pretty cool on the model). If you do keep the Chaplain to run with the tacticals and you give them Dark Channeling and you put Zardu/Erebus with your Gal Vorbak, consider dropping one of your vet squads down to 9 models, freeing up a slot in their Rhino. You have a 50% or 33% (with Zardu) chance of your tacticals getting zealot from Dark Channeling, so your Chaplain would then be wasted staying with them. The squad with plasma guns probably makes the most more sense since it's likely to be operating closer to the enemy than the one with missile launchers, and because you'd have to drop one of the plasma guns, it may be worth swapping the sergeants powerfist for a combi-plasma.

 

Apart from the rule rule-of-cool, I wouldn't bother with a Combi-grenade launcher. Combi-volkite looks cooler and combi-plasma or combi-melta is usually a lot more effective. Personally for a squad with missile launchers, I wouldn't bother with a combi-weapon at all. And I'd be tempted to  give them Marksmen rather than Machine Killers, though this probably depends on what you're facing - remember you don't need to put which veteran tactics you want to use in your list, you can choose before the game.



#6
okonomiyakimarine

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Spoiler

much appreciated! some very good points here! I am not yet sure how to adjust my list, but here is a few thoughts in reaction:

 

A 10 man tactical support unit with flamers is nice, but you'll often struggle to get all 10 flamers to shoot because you can't place a template over the base of one of your own models. I find 6 models is probably optimal, any more just being extra ablative wounds, which is fine, but it's one of the first places to cut points. Also a 5-6 man squad attracts a lot less attention than a full 10 man squad, so they may end up lasting longer anyway.

True. I might go with a smaller squad, but probably with heavy flamers. I could drop them in as a tarpit unit.

 

At 3k points, I'd really consider increasing your Gal Vorbak to 10 models. At that point level you'll regularly be coming across death-star style units that a 5 man squad will simply bounce off. I'd also give the Dark Martyr a power fist (5 S10 attacks on the charge) rather than a power weapon. Power weapons are fine on the squad members, but not the Dark Martyr. I prefer a couple of power mauls for the S7 since rending partially makes up for the AP4, but any power weapon will be pretty decent. Shame only characters can take tainted weapons, since I'd love to give them to Gal Vorbak squad members and the power fist is simply too good to consider taking anything else on the Dark Martyr.

I have to see if and how i can fit in 10 Gal Vorbak. Power fist makes sense. In addition to Lorgar the diabolist could join them and provide tainted weapon and boarding shield.

 

 

If you really want a big blob of tacticals and don't want to put them in a transport, then you definitely need an Apothecary to keep them alive. And since you'll be using the sergeant to tank non-AP1&2 shots, I wouldn't bother giving him anything other than Artificer Armour (and possibly melta-bombs). I'd also think about giving them Dark Channeling - it's well worth the points on big 20 man blobs (though less so on smaller units).

i have them partly painted and also i think big blob marines are fluffier than veterans-only. do not see how to fit in a Spartan as a transport. So they need to run and the chaplain should be helpful to be effective if/when they get in close combat. Dark Channeling is a must. I meant to include it.

 


I've never really seen the point of a Diabolist. Zardu Layek or Erebus also give you access to Dark Channeling, but bring a lot more to the table for their points. Particularly Zardu, who can sit in a tactical squad and summon heralds and lesser daemons all game long, or can run with your Gal Vorbak and boost them with Cursed Earth. And since both of them have Zealot, you have the option of saving a few points by downgrading your Chaplain to a Centurion. Or run Zardu with the Gal Vorbak and Lorgar and keep the Chaplain with the tacticals. Also with the Chaplain, you're paying for a power maul in his upgrade cost, so paying even more points for a power fist seems excessive (though I can see it looking pretty cool on the model). If you do keep the Chaplain to run with the tacticals and you give them Dark Channeling and you put Zardu/Erebus with your Gal Vorbak, consider dropping one of your vet squads down to 9 models, freeing up a slot in their Rhino. You have a 50% or 33% (with Zardu) chance of your tacticals getting zealot from Dark Channeling, so your Chaplain would then be wasted staying with them. The squad with plasma guns probably makes the most more sense since it's likely to be operating closer to the enemy than the one with missile launchers, and because you'd have to drop one of the plasma guns, it may be worth swapping the sergeants powerfist for a combi-plasma.

Zardu can do a lot, but is expensive and I would still need another HQ. So Diabolist, Lorgar with the Gal Vorbak. Chaplain: Rule of cool and already built.
 

Apart from the rule rule-of-cool, I wouldn't bother with a Combi-grenade launcher. Combi-volkite looks cooler and combi-plasma or combi-melta is usually a lot more effective. Personally for a squad with missile launchers, I wouldn't bother with a combi-weapon at all. And I'd be tempted to  give them Marksmen rather than Machine Killers, though this probably depends on what you're facing - remember you don't need to put which veteran tactics you want to use in your list, you can choose before the game.

 probably melta for the missile-squad and plasma for the plasma-squad.

 

 



#7
Fangbanger

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Just a quick 2 cents after skiming over..

Drop p.o.t.l and just go with 2 large tac squads and use your elite slots for vets. saves you giving up points when they all get slain.

Machine killer I'd only bother with combi melta vets, maybe 5. 10 with MB is a waste as you can only use 1 per combat round and they are not in an assault vehicle either.

You've got nothing really to handle av14/flare shields.

Where do Lorgar and the Gal go? walking is a big no no..

Edited by Fangbanger, 14 September 2017 - 08:40 PM.

I done a space Wolves plog......http://www.bolterand...ngers-of-fenris
I done a world eaters plog.........http://www.bolterand...ld-eaters-plog/
zRUl07j.jpg

#8
ChainMachete

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Just a quick 2 cents after skiming over..

Drop p.o.t.l and just go with 2 large tac squads and use your elite slots for vets. saves you giving up points when they all get slain.

Machine killer I'd only bother with combi melta vets, maybe 5. 10 with MB is a waste as you can only use 1 per combat round and they are not in an assault vehicle either.

You've got nothing really to handle av14/flare shields.

Where do Lorgar and the Gal go? walking is a big no no..

 

He's got two Vindi Laser Destroyers for AV14. And a Dark Martyr with a power fist is pretty handy against AV14 too. Ditto the Leviathan once he gets it into close combat.

 

I assume he must be planning on giving Lorgar levitation (with Lorgar Transfigured you get to choose your powers). Levitation works even better if you get an Imperial Bunker with an escape hatch - it's pretty much a poor man's Spartan. Downside is no lascannons and a capacity of 20 rather than 25, so you can't run Lorgar with the full 10 Gal Vorbak, but it's a third of the points. But with careful placing of the escape hatch, you can probably get further into enemy territory than you could with the Spartan.



#9
okonomiyakimarine

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First thanks for your remarks to my list and the additional ideas. I found it a bit difficult to fit in all the suggested changes and use all the infantry units that i want to fit in. So i had the idea to leave out the vehicles and just deploy everything via drop pods and use the Orbital Assault RoW plus the Deathstorm Drop Pod Assault special rule to get five units deployed first turn.

 

edit: Lorgar with Gal Vorbak, Diabolist and Chaplain with Flamer Squad; first turn situational if i mainly drop elites and Leviathan or also Deathstorms.

 

thoughts?

 

+++ WB with Lorgar (Warhammer 30,000 - The Horus Heresy) [2998pts] +++

 
++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [2998pts] ++
 
+ HQ +
 
Centurion [120pts]: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, None, Power Fist
. . Consul: Chaplain
 
Diabolist [150pts]: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Burning Lore, None, Refractor Field, Tainted Weapon
. . Consul: Diabolist
 
+ Elites +
 
Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren [350pts]: 8x Dark Brethren, Power Weapon
. . Dark Martyr: Artificer Armour, Power Weapon
 
Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [305pts]: Dark Channelling, Legion Drop Pod, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen
. . Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Power Fist
. . . . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Meltagun
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web
 
Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [285pts]: Dark Channelling, Legion Drop Pod, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen
. . Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Power Fist
. . . . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Meltagun
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Plasma gun
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Plasma gun
 
+ Troops +
 
Legion Tactical Squad [210pts]: Legion Drop Pod, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines
. . Additional Wargear: Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades, Bolters
. . Legion Tactical Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Chainsword/Combat Blade, Melta Bombs, Plasma Pistol
 
Legion Tactical Squad [210pts]: Legion Drop Pod, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines
. . Additional Wargear: Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades, Bolters
. . Legion Tactical Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Chainsword/Combat Blade, Melta Bombs, Plasma Pistol
 
Legion Tactical Support Squad Flamer [168pts]: Legion Drop Pod, 5x Legion Space Marines
. . Additional Wargear: Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Entire Squad may exchange their Flamers for:: Flamer
. . Legion Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Flamer
 
+ Fast Attack +
 
Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod [115pts]: Frag Assault Launchers
 
+ Heavy Support +
 
Deathstorm Drop Pod [115pts]: Drop Pod Assault special rule, Five Deathstorm Frag Launchers
 
Deathstorm Drop Pod [90pts]: Five Deathstorm Frag Launchers
 
Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon [430pts]: Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod
. . Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Leviathan Siege Drill, Phosphex Discharger
 
+ Allegiance +
 
Legion and Allegiance:   XVII: Word Bearers, Traitor
 
Rite of War: Orbital Assault
 
+ Lords of War +
 
Lorgar [450pts]: Lorgar Transfigured
 
Created with BattleScribe

Edited by okonomiyakimarine, 17 October 2017 - 12:43 PM.


#10
okonomiyakimarine

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I just realized a mistake in my OA list. Anvillus instead of the Kharybdis cannot transport the Gal Vorbak with Lorgar and Diabolist.

 

So I have to save some points here and there. As I see it I could either take squad-wide Melta bombs for the Veterans OR go with Dark Channeling, which I find way fluffier.

 

In this light I look at everything to save up points: Is it correct that I need the Deathstorm Drop Pod with the Assault special rule to guarantee half my drop pods (rounded up) first turn? I mean deploying 4/8 is decent for 25 points. Or should I use 115 points (Deathstorm+drop rule) in another way?

 

The idea is to deploy Kharybdis with Lorgar, Diabolist and Gal Vorbak as well as both Veteran-Squads and the Leviathan first turn. Afterwards I try to get both Tactical-Squads down where needed (NuncioVox). Chaplain with Flamer-Squad to take out softened up targets. The Deathstorm drop pod could be nice for the area denial?

 
+ HQ +
 
Centurion [130pts]: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, None, Power Fist, Refractor Field
. . Consul: Chaplain
 
Diabolist [150pts]: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Burning Lore, None, Refractor Field, Tainted Weapon
. . Consul: Diabolist
 
+ Elites +
 
Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren [330pts]: 7x Dark Brethren, Power Weapon
. . Dark Martyr: Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist
 
Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [315pts] with NuncioVox and 2 Missile Launchers: Dark Channelling, Legion Drop Pod, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen
. . Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Power Fist
. . . . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Meltagun
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Nuncio-vox
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web
 
Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [290pts] with NuncioVox and 2 Plasma Rifles: Dark Channelling, Legion Drop Pod, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen
. . Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol
. . . . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Meltagun
. . . . Power Weapon: Power Sword
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Nuncio-vox
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Plasma gun
. . Legion Veteran Space Marines W/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Plasma gun
 
+ Troops +
 
Legion Tactical Squad [210pts]: Legion Drop Pod, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines
. . Additional Wargear: Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades, Bolters
. . Legion Tactical Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Chainsword/Combat Blade, Melta Bombs, Plasma Pistol
 
Legion Tactical Squad [210pts]: Legion Drop Pod, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines
. . Additional Wargear: Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades, Bolters
. . Legion Tactical Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Chainsword/Combat Blade, Melta Bombs, Plasma Pistol
 
Legion Tactical Support Squad Flamer [135pts]: Legion Drop Pod, 4x Legion Space Marines
. . Entire Squad may exchange their Flamers for:: Flamer
. . Legion Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Flamer
 
+ Fast Attack +
 
Deathstorm Drop Pod [115pts]: Drop Pod Assault special rule, Five Deathstorm Frag Launchers
 
+ Heavy Support +
 
Legion Kharybdis Assault Claw [235pts]
 
Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon [430pts]: Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod
. . Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Leviathan Siege Drill, Phosphex Discharger
 
+ Allegiance +
 
Legion and Allegiance:   XVII: Word Bearers, Traitor
 
Rite of War: Orbital Assault
 
+ Lords of War +
 
Lorgar [450pts]: Lorgar Transfigured
 

 

Created with BattleScribe

Edited by okonomiyakimarine, 26 October 2017 - 07:22 AM.


#11
Spiritual Liege

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Why take heavy weapons with podding Veterans? 2x melta or plasma and ~5 combi weapons would be much better for devastating alpha strike.





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