Deathwatch in 8th

[6262]

I've been trying to wrap my head around Deathwatch in 8th recently; and I'm trying to decide what is a viable list currently.  My local area trends towards points over power points; which seems to be the better option for the Deathwatch in general.  So I'm aiming to paint a 2000 point list and then circle back for all the other units that are going to be on the side lines for a bit.

 

What I've been mulling over is using any vehicles that I take to try and chew through chaff massed infantry and using the Veteran squads to target tanks and monsters.  So  I'm currently trending towards painting a few squads like this.

 

Sgt - Bolter & Xenophase Blade

Black Shield - Bolter & Power Sword

Vet - Combi-Melta & Chainsword

Vet - Combi-Melta & Chainsword

Vet - Bolter & Chainsword

Vet - Frag Cannon

 

All in a Razorback with TL - Assault Cannons.

 

My list will most likely include a Knight and a Corvus Black star.  So I think I'd only be able to squeeze in ~24-30 bodies.  There will definitely be a Watch Master, but I'm not certain what other HQ to bring to the party.  I'm leaning towards Chaplain due to its price and sticking it in the Corvus.

 

But I'm having a hard time deciding what is too much for a squad.  I realize that I'm trending towards generalist squads, and I've seen several posts that argue against doing that.  As I haven't actually played any games with Deathwatch or even as marines this edition how specialized or equipped should I be looking to go?  How many combi-weapons are too many?

 

Is the previous amount of toys from 7th too much?  It feels like we really need to have bodies on the ground, and this edition makes that a little bit harder.  I used to run a squad of Storm Shields and Frag Cannons as my anchor point that would open up after deep striking and pull in another unit with the Beacon Angelis, so that I could establish a beach head.  With the index I'm just feeling that we're more of a motorized force; and have seen posts advocating to spam all the vehicles (Razorbacks) that we can. 

 

Is there a way to play a mostly fluff oriented list just to run the Deathwatch as vanilla marines with a bunch of Sternguard currently?  Thanks for any thoughts and opinions.  Do many people play their force as a combined Space Marine and Deathwatch force?  What have your experiences been like if you have? (Also do you paint them as two separate forces or just one cohesive one and then indicate that certain types of squads work one way or the other)

[Mobius0288]

Exactly man. The golden standard for 7th was a couple storm shield and a couple frags. It dealt with most things. We've certainly had to vary it a bit in 8th. I run mostly DW, allying in some assassins or a knight on the bigger games (no point in running a "Deathwatch" army right now since there's no added benefit from the codex yet. Enjoy imperium allies :) )

 

I agree a little with the razorbacks. They are strong transports for their cost and I don't expect to use more then 5 man squads of veterans. Any exceptions would be super specialized and probably needs a more reliable method of delivery (drop pod or blackstar)

 

I have a few standards I run now:

 

At least 1 Corvus Blackstar. It's awesome.

 

All squads that will be moving get transport.

 

My Alpha team, whether I fly them in my Blackstar or I use my drop pod, gets placed near the biggest, meanest stuff so I can remove it from the board. My Alpha has: 1 SS, 2 combi-meltas, 2 frag cannons. Usually the target dies. Due to the point cost and how fast they're targeted, I won't have more than 1 of these guys per list.

 

My ranged support team. Typically some stalker bolters and either 2 infernum heavy bolter or 2 missiles. There's potential to spread the firepower out across a couple squads but I'm more of the mobile assault type of person. Leaving the minimum amount in the back field to support is ideal so I can put more bodies on the front line.

 

Not getting to crazy, but combi-weapons are pretty awesome. I'd say no more than 3 in a squad of 5... which leads to my other standard, assume a couple casualties. If you deck out the whole squad with 4 frag cannons and a combi-melta, do you think it will live long enough to make it's worth back? I say probably not, and it's gonna hurt every time you lose a guy. Combi-plasmas could be of benefit but again, just kit out like 3 guys in the squad. Our SIA bolters are still good and handle many situations, AND can be used with the combi-weapons. Ideal range for most decked out squads is still going to be close to 12 inches. I prefer to be closer due to the frag cannon frag rounds / wyrmsbreath shotgun rounds.

 

A lot of tactics talk but my tactics dictate how kit out my squads.

[shandwen]

I am always a fan of a squad all with stalkers. The range bump and second shot at range makes them extremely useful, but they don't want to move (I don't give any heavies to them to keep costs down).

[6262]

Is using two Watchmasters something you'd consider strongly? I've got 7-8(?) Stalkers and I've been looking at splitting them into two squads of 5-6 with a missile launcher or two to fill out the numbers. With a baby sitting Watchmaster it seems like even on the move they'd be pretty reliable.

 

What do you use your knight to target? The heaviest armor on the board? Which variant do you recommend?

[Vel'Cona]

I'm wondering if the Corvus is still doing well with the recent Flyer nerfs (indirect though they may be) . . . 

[N00BST4R]

Just going to point out that the only Chaplain DW currently have available is the Primaris one which I believe can only be transported in the Primaris tank if you're looking to transport him.

[Moostick]

We get regular Chaplains. Just no jump pack, bikes or terminator armour. He also can't get a power fist for whatever reason.

[N00BST4R]

We get regular Chaplains. Just no jump pack, bikes or terminator armour. He also can't get a power fist for whatever reason.

That's right - I was thinking about the Apothecary.

[6262]

Would most people take the Corvus over a Landraider(Preferred Build for DW)?  I haven't picked up either of these kits and am trying to decide which one is most useful in day to day life.  I'm currently leaning to the Corvus because of its speed and ability to transport; but am open to both.  

[mjrwaud]

We get regular Chaplains. Just no jump pack, bikes or terminator armour. He also can't get a power fist for whatever reason.

I'm in the process of building up some more HQ models... but am unsure what gear to pick for another chaplain from their quizzically restricted list (pistols, combi-weapons). What's recommended? Stick to the stock pistol like the one I already have or go for something fancier like a combi-flamer?

 

 

Would most people take the Corvus over a Landraider(Preferred Build for DW)?  I haven't picked up either of these kits and am trying to decide which one is most useful in day to day life.  I'm currently leaning to the Corvus because of its speed and ability to transport; but am open to both.  

They really seem like different animals... I think you'll get more use from the Corvus at first and the landraider later (crusader seems best) if you really need something to carry more troops across the table. My question is how to equip that corvus, anti-troop dakka-dakka with assault cannons and rockets or anti-armour pew-pew with lasers and missles?

[6262]

Well,. I'm thinking that philosophically I should let my armor deal with hordes and my boys in black deal with armor/monsters. So I think the Corvus would be equipped with all the shots. Same for the Land Raider.

 

I'm not sure if that is ideal or not, but it's the way I lean initially.

 

What do you mean I'd get more use from the land raider later? Just that it will become more important to my plans over time?

[mjrwaud]

What do you mean I'd get more use from the land raider later? Just that it will become more important to my plans over time?

 

Just that if you were going to get one or the other the Corvus is probably more useful at first as it might be more flexible whereas the land raider probably needs a larger force to be effective in its more specific role.

 

Edit:  They're both great and either one would be a solid choice (which is probably why it's a difficult choice). More specifically, the corvus can carry any type of killteam (vets, vanguard, terminators, bikes) whereas the landraider can't carry bikes... so as a first choice the corvus might be a bit more flexible and fun to try new strategies. But of course your mileage will vary depending on what you find fun and who you're playing against.

Edited August 30, 2017 by mjrwaud

[Prot]

I'm not sure exactly what mjrwaud means but I can say the Corvus is cheaper, can be harder to hit, but inevitably is easier to take down. So while it's a better pillbox for multiple opponent unit types, the Landraider is a solid choice. It just can't run the typical Deathwatch team that the Corvus can.

 

I will say this... in my meta I've lost the Corvus in T1 far more often than I can count losing a LR in T1.

 

I'm on the fence about which variant of LR though. It's SO hard for me to drop the 4 lascannon variant. Vets with Missile launchers can take that role but really... I don't know anything else that poses an instant threat to super heavies... a Predator annihilator is close, but not as tough. Part of it for me is that 2+ save. T8 is great as well.

[6262]

Yeah. I usually play Nids and T8 is amazing these days.

 

For me the change in priorities in the two forces is hard to process. The sheer lack of bodies is a constant adjustment in my thinking. In other ways it's like I'm home. DW seems to be able to deal with infantry just like the Nids can, but vehicles are the same stumbling block I've always had in this game.

 

I thought that taking a knight would fix the problem but I think that the knight with a battle Canon is under performing and would be better served putting those points into another bucket.

 

I may have to play a few games with both to figure out a little better.

 

Is the old 5e vehicle wall the best way to protect our expensive Marines? Or do we have to clear the area?

[Moostick]

I haven't run a LR yet, but I see the Corvus as something that can deliver a unit anywhere T1, whereas the LR is a slower transport. Corvus, however, likely gets shot down T1 or T2, whereas the LR can be deployed a little hidden and more likely survive longer, but takes a while longer to deliver a unit.

 

Both can generally bring the same amount of fire power, but LR has no penalty. On paper, I'm not a fan of lascannons on LR as Razorbacks can take that role for cheaper, and I want it to deliver a kill team, so it's going to get up close. That and it costs so much more than the Corvus.

 

Crusader seems to be the best bang for buck in an assault scenario. I find it hard to justify Redeemer's extra cost for just 2D6 flamers.

[Mobius0288]

I am always a fan of a squad all with stalkers. The range bump and second shot at range makes them extremely useful, but they don't want to move (I don't give any heavies to them to keep costs down).

That's not entirely true. They can use hellfire ammunition which will be a 2+ hit even on the move :)

 

Is using two Watchmasters something you'd consider strongly? I've got 7-8(?) Stalkers and I've been looking at splitting them into two squads of 5-6 with a missile launcher or two to fill out the numbers. With a baby sitting Watchmaster it seems like even on the move they'd be pretty reliable.

 

What do you use your knight to target? The heaviest armor on the board? Which variant do you recommend?

Sorry for the late reply man. I don't think it's intended to use two watchmasters in a single army but sure, why not. Though in my opinion, I think I'd go with a watchmaster and Artemis. He's the same cost and is a bit better when it comes to fighting on the frontlines - Stasis bomb and combi-flamer. But... points is always an issue for me, so I usually sacrifice the 2nd HQ to be a chaplain or captain depending on if I run my melee team in the blackstar.

 

I've only brought my knight a couple of times but he is the distraction - standard paladin. He'll get targeted first so I assault the biggest armor, hoping to tear into it with my chainsword. Last game I went all out on a Baneblade variant. Lost the engagement, but lasted long enough for my blackstar, razorback and rhino to get in close. Wont the game however due to victor points.

 

Would most people take the Corvus over a Landraider(Preferred Build for DW)?  I haven't picked up either of these kits and am trying to decide which one is most useful in day to day life.  I'm currently leaning to the Corvus because of its speed and ability to transport; but am open to both.  

I favor the corvus over the landraider. I prefer my opponent having a -1 to hit against me plus the speed / transport. A landraider could be good but it doesn't fit my play style. Maybe if I used regular marines I'd grab a couple. I also second Moostick on the lascannons. The razorback is definitely a cheaper platform for a supporting anti-vehicle/MC unit. Might be beneficial to get the redeemer or crusader, but you'll have to be mindful of your intended targets.