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R&H army review and tactics


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#1
Hand_of_Than

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R&H ARMY REVIEW AND TACTICS

Read the rules, checked the faqs and played some games. R&H got the short stick from the pile, thats for sure. So we need to suck it up or go play IG/AM with R&H skins.

Overall the list is weak and suffers from design flaws in some unit datasheets. R&H get almost none buffing auras or really impacting faction special rules. Gladly some datasheets are good and the army in a whole is not in ruins. Lets take a closer look R&H army list and datasheets.

Army/faction abilities:

Uncertain Worth
-Still there to annoy us with the need to keep notes and write leadership values down.
-Effects can be minimized for Militia and Disciples, see Renegade Command Squad.

Chaos Covenant
Our army wide buff that affects most of the infantry units. Costs nothing but using a Renegade Commander as warlord.
-Covenant of Khorne(+1 st when charge) and Nurgle(6+ inv save to str 4 or less attacks) are the weakest ones and should be skipped for power purposes, fluff is another thing.
-Covenant of Slaanesh(2d6 advance and 3d6 charge, pick the highest dice) makes the affected units signically faster, so a solid rule for getting in to melee. Get this if your army goes for close combat.
-Covenant OF Tzeentch(+1 hit in overwatch fire) is the strongest ability as it doubles overwatch effect of infantry. Use this unless you have something special planned.

R&H Psychic Discipline
1. Warp Flux. Warp Flux has a warp charge value of 7. Choose an enemy unit within 12", it immediately suffers D3 mortal wounds. Against VEHICLES, it inflicts D6 mortal wounds instead.
-Short ranged but an aimed smite that does more damage against vehicles. Solid against vehicles that come near your lines like rhinos or walkers.

2. Creeping Terror. Creeping Terror has a warp charge value of 7. Choose an enemy unit within 12", if that unit takes a Morale test in this battle round, it subtracts D3 from its Leadership value.
-Havent used this yet. Why give the enemy more casualties in the morale phase if you can smite/warp flux them now instead? Maybe in a prolonged melee...too situational.

3. Unnatural Vigour. Unnatural Vigour has a warp charge value of 10. Every RENEGADES AND HERETICS INFANTRY unit (except this unit) within 6" re-rolls failed charge rolls and re-rolls failed hit rolls and wound rolls in the
Fight phase for the rest of the turn. At the start of the Morale phase, each affected unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
-I like the fact we have this power, event if its so hard to pull of. This makes u want to think around how to make a list working and using this. Power is certainly worth it
if you manage to buff those hordes of infantry or better yet big units of Ogryn/Spawn. Casting wont be easy, as u need like 2-3 Malefic lords or 1-2 Rogue Psyker Covens with command re-roll to get this cast.
Probably not worth the effort, but R&H army hardly is anyway so you might want to give it a try smile.png.

HQ
Renegade Commander
-Offers nothing but free Chaos Covenant rule, so always get one as the warlord. Pick "Inspiring Leader"(+1ld 6"aura) as warlord trait and go near a Renegade Command Squad(s).
-Pretty weak in stats and cc survival so dont upgrade those weapons and stay out of harms way so you dont give up "slay the warlord".

Malefic Lord
-Knows two powers + smite and can cast & deny once. Not bad for 30 points, actually really good. Fill remaining compulsory HQ slots with these or go beyond compulsory slots.

Rogue Psyker Coven
-Contains five psykers so it costs 100 points. Still it knows only one power + smite and can cast & deny once. Choir of Chaos rule allows casting with 3d6 and getting mortal wounds in exchange.
-Obviosly meant to cast Unnatural Vigour or smite with 3d6. But those points allow for three Malefic Lords that get you so much more casting and are characters...
-If your local meta allows under minimum size units you can buy less than five Rogue Psykers, get unit containing 1-2 so it stays cheap and choir away. Remember these arent characters so go inside a Chimera before coming out to cast.

TROOP

Renegade Cultists
-So R&H get their own cultist entry. Cheaper flamer and Champion options but now more expensive ppm cost than codex CSM cultists. Uncertain Worth.
-These guys aim and hit better than your Renegade militia soldiers, with one more point in cost you will generate 50% more hits compared to Militia or Mutants.
-You get no boost options to morale, so prepare to "melt" in CC. Either go for big squads with CC configuration with Enforcer or stay small and shooty. .
-Example units: 10 Cultists w/autoguns + Heavy stubber = 54pts or 30 Cultists w/pistol&BAW + 3 Flamers + Enforcer = 201pts...those 150 points are better spent elsewhere.

Renegade Militia Squad
-Really suffer for being ws/bs 5+. You got the weapon options to buy but no skill to aim them, thanks Forge World...grr! Gladly some weapons are cheap to buy and flamers wont fail.
-I suggest skipping sigil but buying a vox if you have a Renegade Command Squad with a command net vox.
-Example units: 10 Militia with two flamers and a vox = 59pts for moving and counter assaults or 10 Militia with Heavy bolter and a vox = 53pts for a gunline.

Renegade Mutant Rabble
-Like militia with less upgrade options and get Curse of Mutation. Get pistols but sadly no brutal assault weapons(BAW) with them. So change pistols to auto/lasguns or shotguns.
-With only one 5+ attack they lack melee punch badly so better to keep them in small and shooty squads with auto/lasguns. Shotguns get marginally better only if in 6" of enemy, so not worth halving your maximum range.
-Curse of Mutation is free so if dont want to spend any extra points on your troops, mutants are a strong candidate.
-Example units: 10 Mutants with autoguns = 40pts.

TACTICS on TROOPS in general

While is see taking horders of Cultists/Militia/Mutants with upgrades and Enforcers to keep them in line as the cool thing to...I dont see it working effciently with these rules.
Our troops are lacking in some critical place, like militia is bs5+ or mutants ws5+ and having one attack they are over costed at 4ppm(+upgrades) for what they bring. We got no buff auras to help them, Enforcers dont increase their sucky damage output.
Spending a lot of points on things to die wont generally help to win. So I suggest you buy minimum 10-man troops as tax in brigade/battalion. What to buy, theres no clear winner loser, that at least is a good thing so they all have their uses. Mutants are best if you want cheapest w/o any upgrades, Cultist are best but most expensive and Militia offers firepower & morale(vox) with additional cost.
My personal preference is currently Militia because they get two flamers per ten guys and best morale from vox network. Heavy stubber/bolter or a mortar are always cheap even with bs 5+. Troops might get more important in the future when/if GW will give them the OBSEC rule.

FAST
Chaos Spawn
-Now FAQ`d to beasts so dont get the Chaos Covenant -rule or to enter transports.

ELITE

Renegade Disciple Squad
-Change from troop militia to elite disciples is a big jump what comes to hitting things. You get twice the hits with bs/ws 3+ compared to militia 5+. They are fanatic(2d6 and choose better +3 for leadeship), so better significally morale and no need for vox(saves 5p per squad).
-Squad can get one of a special and heavy weapon. Only champion gets to upgrade close combat gear.
-use small squads of five men with one expensive heavy weapon like lascannon or missile launcher. Usually stay at long range and stationary so no special weapon for that reason.
-Example unit: 5 Disciples + Lascannon = 50pts

Renegade Command Squad
-Like Disciple Squad but four strong missing the champion.
-Banner of Hate(models slain in fight 6" do make an attack) might be worth it in middle of a infantry gunline.
-Command net vox is good, gives Command Squad LD to every other unit with a vox. So roll a good LD on Command Squad(re-roll if necessary with a command point) and keep Renegade Commander with "Inspiring Leader"(+1ld 6"aura) nearby. Might get up to LD 10.
-Keep out of LOS or add a hvy weapon and shoot far away out of harms way. Add some men or buy two squads if you have many militia/vox squads and enemy has indirect fire or you want redundancy.
-Example unit: 4 Disciples + Command net vox + Lascannon = 54pts

Renegade Enforcer
-Chaos "comissars" but they have 3" aura and slay 1-3 models. Not really helpful unless you play big squads of troops. With so small aura you might need one Enforcer per squad.
-Would be good if the troops available would be better or cheaper, but now only adds up their costs. Stats and protection not worth sending them to fight so no need to upgrade CC gear.

Renegade Marauder Squad
-These are quite good and versatile unit being ws/bs 3+, 2 attacks base and a free specialists -rule. Your best option for special weapons and close quarter shooting. In it for the money is good and you can re-roll the dice if you really want to keep the squad.
-Forgeworld did a sloppy job with the Brutes, not worth the 30pts so pretend they dont exist.
-Get access to sniper rifles. Stalkers with snipers sound fun but in practise these have not sold on me yet as you need on average 5 squads of two rifles to get one sure mortal wound.
-Example units: 5 Marauder Stalkers + 2 plasmaguns = 44pts or 10 Marauder Hereteks w/shotguns + 2 Meltaguns + Power fist = 94pts

Renegade Ogryn Beast Handlers
-One Ogryn and 3-6 hounds. Hounds have pretty good stats for 10pt models. They do get a lot of attacks if they charge and bonus to hit if Ogryn manages a wound with its goad.
-Can inflict serius damage for a unit of this point cost if you get the charge and target is lightly armoured.
-Example unit: Ogryn Pack Master & 6 Chaos Mauler Hounds = 94pts for 15 T5 wounds and 22 S5 attacks on the charge.

Renegade Ogryn Brutes
-AKA the meat train. Deadly charge with Avalanche of Muscle and Combat Stimms. Somewhat similar stats and point cost with Chaos Spawn. Boss with drill is a boss indeed.
-These and spawn are your maing big CC hitters. Ogryn can get inside Chimera and Valkyrie(unlike spawn that are beasts, check faq).
-Example unit: 4 Ogryn Brutes inc Boss with a pwr drill + Chimera w/two heavy flamers = 133 + 109 = 242pts.

Renegade Plague Ogryns
-Like Ogryn Brutes but with Scions of Nurgle and Shower of Bile. So they get Covenant of Nurgle that is a waste and cannot get other covenants(Slaanesh for speed) but they do explode smile.png.
-Plague claws are nice, S:5 ap:-1 D:1d3 with re-roll to wound against non-vehicles and these are cheaper than Ogryn Brutes. Only missing is the dentist boss with a drill.
-Example unit: 4 Plague Ogryns + Chimera w/two heavy flamers = 104 + 109 = 213pts.

Overall the Elite section is where our hitting power is located. Disciples and Marauders cost 6ppm and hit 3+ while 5+ hitting militia and mutants are 4ppm. Add other better rules and weapons that cost the same whoever buys them...you get some much more for a few more points.

HEAVY

Renegade Heavy Weapons Squad
-Militia fire support. Suffers from poor BS5+. Also no way around Uncertain Worth so they will die and flee to morale easily if targeted.
-Keep them cheap by using mortars or heavy stubbers/bolters.
-Example unit: 3 weapons Teams with mortars = 24pts.

End of the list. Having played some games with R&H they can do okay in a casual setting. Most hitting power comes from units outside of R&H army list. AM artillery and vehicles still work fine and hit with BS4+.
I am afraid that with time R&H will only get weaker compared to other factions who are getting proper codex books and updates from GW. Forgeworld seems to be really slow and lightly staffed what comes to 40K. And R&H are probably low on the priority list because the model range is around ten years old and not selling too much I presume. So be prepared to be stuck with this index army list for the foreseeable future...I really hope to be wrong.


Edited by Hand_of_Than, 30 August 2017 - 04:52 AM.

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#2
Trystram

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Nice write up! What about other heavies, artillery and tanks?


Edited by Trystram, 29 August 2017 - 01:17 PM.


#3
Akrim

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Im loving R&H in 8th. It might not be as strong as Astra with their orders and yes the Troops options are not great but Ive been finding success against codex armies.

I find Enforcers can support two large squads easily enough. Just have them in the middle between both. Not losing troops to morale is fairly significant in my experience.

Ogryn are fantastic assault units, esp with the drill to kill armoured / high T units. Throw them in a Chimera and go to work.

The artillery is really good, i think any list should have some. Quad Launchers and Medusas are my personal go-to.

There are a few good gems to be had in the FW indexes.

Overall, yeah its not top dog, more like Advanced Astra Militarum. But Im in it because Renegades are cool.

#4
micahwc

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My experience playing some Renegades with Alpha Legion is as follows.

 

Malefic Lords: These guys are awesome. I brought six to a tournament, they killed a Banehammer and Vendetta in one game, easily killing three times their point cost with smite and warp flux. To be fair, 2 krak missiles took 11 wounds off the Banehammer as well, but still. Against Grey Knights I had almost as many psykers and was able to shut down a lot of their psychic powers. Smite is I think one of the easiest ways to put wounds on hard targets since there isn't any defense against it other than deny the witch and FnP equivalents. Cons are that as individual units, bringing six of these guys gives you six extra placements, and you are basically going to go last every game.

 

Cultists: Completely outclassed by cultists from the Chaos Codex, who cost less points, have better stats, and access to Chaos Codex stratagems and Legion Traits. Even then in 2 of 3 games a blob of 30 cultists died in the first turn and gave up first blood, in the third game they survived until turn 2 before dying and giving up first blood.

 

Earthshaker Battery: In 2 of 3 matches where I brought three individual Earthshaker Batteries, all three were dead by turn 2, and I only got to fire once. In the third match 1 survived until turn 3. None of them were particularly effective against anything, but they are huge bullet magnets. You place these down and you know they will attract fire.


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The Codex Astartes no doubt has guidance that covers that kind of situation - long, detailed advice that would essentially boil down to "shoot the choppy ones, chop the shooty ones".


#5
Akrim

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Earthshakers dead by turn 2?!? Crazy, what did that damage?

Ive only lost a Quad gun once in all my games.

#6
Perigrin

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Our troops exist purely to die glorious deaths to protect the Malefic Lords and Marauders. Mutants are the best for this because shotguns and the potential +1T. I quite like this list in 8th, mostly because of Marauders and Malefic Lords. Marauders can do absolutely anything you need them too, and a squad of 10 with BAW is 30 attacks of GEQ mutilation hitting on 3+, really nice vs Eldar. Malefic Lords really are the best damage dealers for us though, and one of the best units overall. T4, 4 wounds, a 4+ Invuln, and being a character makes these little horrors incredably hard to get off the table for a 30 pt model. You can Alleviate the problem with having to drop them all one by one by sticking them in an Arvus Lighter, and zipping around the table like a maniac dropping off mortal wound dispensers wherever they are needed, which also gives them deep strike access, and can fit 12 models, either giving a retarded amount of smites, or some chaff to shield them. It's a solid list, not even close to the best, but solid.
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#7
micahwc

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Now I need an Arvus lighter, or a chimera. Or I guess I could use my Valkyrie, fit 2 lords and a large marauder squad.

 

What killed the Earthshakers? Game one it was a Vendetta and a Bane Hammer, Game two was a pair of Valkyries with special weapon squads full of plasma guns. Drop squad 9" away with grav chute deployment, squad walks up 6", rapid fires plasma guns with fun orders from the company commander that came with them, Valkyries shoot a multi-laser, 2 heavy bolters, and 2 multiple rocket pods each, and then the special weapon squads charge.


Edited by micahwc, 29 August 2017 - 04:28 PM.

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The Codex Astartes no doubt has guidance that covers that kind of situation - long, detailed advice that would essentially boil down to "shoot the choppy ones, chop the shooty ones".


#8
Akrim

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Bubblewrap those guns. 100 infantry and enforcers says nobody gets near my big guns. Banehammer is a different ball of wax tho whew

#9
Karinon

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You mention spawn get covenants but as they are now Beasts in the FAQ they don't benefit from it anymore.

#10
Perigrin

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Arvus Lighters are IMO better than Valkyries, because IIRC i dont think they have to be armed, if you do arm them they can take 4 heavy stubbers, which is nice, and 126 points for a mobile drop pod with significant heavy weapons is awesome. Even better, IT DOESNT HAVE SUPERSONIC, so it can maneuver like no other plane to get your guys exactly where they need to be.
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Azekai

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Arvus Lighters are IMO better than Valkyries, because IIRC i dont think they have to be armed, if you do arm them they can take 4 heavy stubbers, which is nice, and 126 points for a mobile drop pod with significant heavy weapons is awesome. Even better, IT DOESNT HAVE SUPERSONIC, so it can maneuver like no other plane to get your guys exactly where they need to be.

Not a huge fan of Valks, but I really like that the Arvus is effective. I love the image of re-purposed shipping craft being used by crazed heretics because it is all they have on hand. 

Kinda bummed that my vendetta gunship seems to be off the table unless I am using only Astra Militarum rules :L


Corruption is our armor. Infection is our weapon. Immortality is our reward.
 

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#12
Tamika

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Such a shame Arvus now OOP

#13
Perigrin

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I am planning on putting a couple together out of a couple of WW2 fighter kits and Plasticard.
==THE REST OF THIS POST HAS BEEN REDACTED DUE TO ME APPARENTLY BEING AN IDIOT AND FORGETTING THAT IT SAYS IT CANT HOLD OGRYNS==

Edited by Perigrin, 29 August 2017 - 11:43 PM.


#14
Akrim

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Such a shame Arvus now OOP

:cuss, I just noticed that. Finally people want to buy Arvus's and they scrap em. Oh well conversion time I guess. 



#15
Hand_of_Than

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You mention spawn get covenants but as they are now Beasts in the FAQ they don't benefit from it anymore.

Updated OP accordingly. Thanks for spotting the error.



#16
micahwc

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Valks have some advantages, namely that I already own two of them. Also grav chute insertion is pretty cool. Armed with multi laser, rockets, and heavy bolters they are decent against hoards.
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The Codex Astartes no doubt has guidance that covers that kind of situation - long, detailed advice that would essentially boil down to "shoot the choppy ones, chop the shooty ones".


#17
micahwc

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I think I need to find about 9 heavy quad launchers and buy 3 more earthshakers for a Vanguard Detachment. 36D6 strength 5 shots and 6D6 strength 9 shots per turn should hurt just about everything. Killing a conscript blob in one turn of firing sounds delightful. And at Strength 5 the Heavy Quad Launcher can wound anything up to toughness 9 on a 5+. With average roles you would hit 63 times, which would give you 21 wounds on anything from T6 to T9.

 

Add a Commander with the covenant of Tzeentch, a command squad with Vox network, and 3x20 man militia squads with vox and 4x flamers. Overwatch on 5s everywhere. 4D6 autohits when the militia are charged.


The Codex Astartes no doubt has guidance that covers that kind of situation - long, detailed advice that would essentially boil down to "shoot the choppy ones, chop the shooty ones".


#18
Akrim

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One tactic ive found to be a solid one particularly against units that can crank out extreme overwatch volume is leading assaults with Chimeras. They weather the storm far better than our lightly armored infantry.

#19
Azekai

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The problem of conscripts is that anything that will reliably kill them will almost certainly kill anything else. The amount of fire power (and points tied in bringing that fire power) required is way out of proportion to how little the blob costs to field. I won't say it is exactly game breaking, but it certainly makes the game unsatisfying when artillery can be shrugged off like nothing by massed infantry. 

Hopefully GW boosts blast damage specifically against hordes. Something like how knights get x3 attacks with their feet when stomping might work. 


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Corruption is our armor. Infection is our weapon. Immortality is our reward.
 

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#20
Akrim

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For sure, add another D6 to the attacks for every 10 models in the target unit.

It sounds like GW is aware of Conscript abuse and will address it. I think a simple fix would be they cannot utilize orders to reflect their rookie nature. Ive sampled Conscript heavy AM, its pretty gross and time consuming.

#21
Excessus

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2. Creeping Terror. Creeping Terror has a warp charge value of 7. Choose an enemy unit within 12", if that unit takes a Morale test in this battle round, it subtracts D3 from its Leadership value.
-Havent used this yet. Why give the enemy more casualties in the morale phase if you can smite/warp flux them now instead? Maybe in a prolonged melee...too situational.

 

I can see fun combo potential with nightlords/raptors. :)


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#22
Akrim

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Or a Decimator with a Butcher Cannon

#23
Excessus

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Or a Decimator with a Butcher Cannon

 

Or both? :D


"Deception IS the point. Any fool can calculate strength. That one has been doing it from the moment he saw us. Now, he has to calculate what he can't see. And fear what he doesn't know."

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#24
DiscipleOfTheWord

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A way to fix the fact that renegade troops are so bad is simply to use cultists from the CSM codex, as there is currently no reason to take a pure renegades detachment. Covenants are OK, but not really worth paying for such poor quality troops. A viable option is to use a patrol detachment of Word Bearers or Black Legion (for the leadership buffs) of cultists and a dark apostle (again for the leadership buffs) to act as your meatshield, using the tide of traitors stratagem,and then support that with vanguard and spearhead detachments of renegades to use their only good units, such as quad launchers, the guard tanks, and ogryns or marauders. This seems quite fluffy as well I think. On a side note, a really good tactic (although I haven't used it in games yet) seems to be using grav-chute insertion to deliver a load of ogryns for a first turn charge from a valkyrie, which seems brutal on paper. I'd be interested to know if anyone has tried it? I'm also wondering how good baneblades are in this edition, I've only used mine in one game but it got destroyed turn one by a load of T'au. And finally, does anyone use Leman Russ executioner's? I have two built but when I used them they seemed... underwhelming.

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#25
Azekai

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A way to fix the fact that renegade troops are so bad is simply to use cultists from the CSM codex, as there is currently no reason to take a pure renegades detachment. Covenants are OK, but not really worth paying for such poor quality troops.

As has been pointed out before, cultists only look good in comparison. In practice, both renegade troops and cultists both suck quite a bit. Doesn't matter if they are militia, mutants, or CSM cultists, they likely will not accomplish much of anything offensively. Troops serve to swamp the enemy with bodies, camp objectives, and bodyguard artillery.

I like renegades troops solely because I like my enforcers and the relative morale immunity they bring. I do not play Iron Warriors or Alpha Legion, I play Death Guard. My legion might not even get cultists when the new 'dex drops, so I feel like mutants and marauders are the way to go. 


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