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building a good fluffy word bearers list..here's what I have


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#1
Dardl

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So I have some Word Bearers. Even in 7th I never grasped how to properly play them. So I was hoping we could look at what I have, Build a list and maybe post some advice on how to build a solid fluffy Word Bearers list for people finding this post .I've made several lists but I just have no confidence on which direction to go with them.  Here's what I have and thanks! 

Hq's: 
Dark Apostle
Chaos lord with sword and bolt pistol
Chaos lord with power maul in terminator armour
Mamon
A great unclean one
4 nurgle heralds
1 khorne herald
exalted champion with power axe (he is actually modeled with two axes) 
Winged Slaanesh Daemon Prince

Elites:
7 possessed 
Helbrute armed with twin las cannon and missile launcher
Hellbrute with fist and multi melta
Hellbrute with plasma cannon and fist
dark vengeance chosen

Troops:
11 marines armed with just bolters, 2 with plasma guns, one with a lascannon, one with a flamer and 2 with melta guns 6 with chain swords and boltpistol and 2 champions one with power fist and one with power sword
about 50 cultists all mixed
80 plague bearers
20 bloodletters 

Fast attack:
13 chaos spawn
5 raptors armed with two melta


Heavy support:
2 soul grinders

No flyers

3 rhinos bare bones 
 



#2
Darnok

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I can not give advice on a "good list", but to put it bluntly: there is no way to build an "unfluffy WB list".

 

Word Bearer forces are lead by their Dark Apostles - and those implement their ideas no matter what they might be. Basically: whatever you list come up with, it could be the "divine inspiration" your Dark Apostle came up with.



#3
Dardl

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I can not give advice on a "good list", but to put it bluntly: there is no way to build an "unfluffy WB list".

 

Word Bearer forces are lead by their Dark Apostles - and those implement their ideas no matter what they might be. Basically: whatever you list come up with, it could be the "divine inspiration" your Dark Apostle came up with.

Really? Good to know! I must read that word bearers book....



#4
Panzer

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Unfluffy Word Bearers list? Refuse to take Dark Apostles. Ever. There, plenty unfluffy. tongue.png
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#5
MasterDeath

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I would advise for one Word Bearer Detachement and one Mixed. That way you can use the Demons as cheap troops to get some CP and the characters in the mixed Detachement can be Word Bearers as those donĀ“t need the Chapter Trait anyway. For example:

 

WB Detachement (The three Elite one)

 

Apostle

 

Possessed

Helbrute

Helbrute

+ Whatever needs the Legion Trait

 

Mixed Detachement (Battalion)

 

Lord

Exalted

 

Plaguebearer

Plaguebearer

Bloodletters

+Whatever you want and does not need the trait

 

That way you can use your demons if you want to and still benefit from all the WB stuff.



#6
TheMelancholic

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WB can make use of anything without being "unfluffy".

 

That said, I certainly feel that there are some units that are more distinctly WB in flavour:

  • Dark Apostles. Basically mandatory if you want to run fluffy WB. Fortunately he's a competitive choice.
  • Possessed. WB were the first legion to have Possessed marines and still have the largest numbers of them. Unfortunately not as competitive.
  • Cultists. WB are notorious for setting up cults with their zealous preaching. These guys will die to a still breeze, but run in a big horde (and making use of tide of traitors) WB can use them effectively.

Now let's look at what WB have going for them:

  • Voice of Lorgar (the Unique Warlord Trait) is pretty much made for Dark Apostles, allowing them to spread their useful command auras further. Okay on anything (barring sorcerers) really, seeing as most of the Chaos HQs have some nice buffs to hand out.
  • People say that Profane Zeal (Legion Trait) is bad, basically giving you ATSKNF which loyalists already have. I disagree somewhat. Profane Zeal is less situational than most of the other legion traits and always useful to have on hand. Excellent on cultists too, especially when backed up by a Dark Apostle.
  • Dark Pact (Legion Stratagem) is probably the biggest reason to play WB imo. World Bearers are without a doubt the best army at summoning in the game with this, able to reliably bring in big hordes of Lesser Daemons (or a few bigger ones). Being able to re-roll ANY dice (so keep the high ones) when summoning and ignoring the wounds that come with doubles/triples. For one CP this stratagem is great so make sure you can take advantage of it. Consider running multiple characters with Jump-Packs/Terminator Armour or maybe even a sorcerer on bike with warptime. Anything that can close the gap and allow you to start summoning turn two, right in their face.
  • The Cursed Crozious (Legion Relic) is also pretty good and arguably one of the better Legion Specific Relics. Good on a Lord or Dark Apostle, though you might be better picking something else if you aren't fighting Imperium (The Black Mace is also a good choice here).

As for a list, I'd lean heavily on Daemonic Allies. You can pull off all sorts of nasty combos, especially when you realise that many CSM units (Warp Talons and Possessed) have the DAEMON keyword and are thus able to be affected by buffs from Daemons. Some ideas:

  • Big Blob of Tzeentch Possessed around the Changeling (picking Boon of Mutation for his Power). Possessed are -1 to hit at range and melee and Boon buffs up their CC ability regardless of what you roll on the D3 chart.
  • Sorcerer on Bike with Warptime or DP with Warptime. Stay stationary in the movement phase and summon your choice of Daemons, conga-lining them back towards the Sorc/DP. Cast Warptime on the unit and move them up for an easy charge.
  • Warp-Talons with Mark of Tzeentch and a Sorc with Warptime drop out of deepstrike and get an easy charge without overwatch (assuming you get warptime off). Next turn the Sorc summons the Changeling to give the Talons -1 to hit.

Be creative, I dunno...they were just some off the top of my head.


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#7
Sheesh Mode

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Melancholic is on the money. 

Summoning forces Word Bearers to play aggressively to mitigate its limitations. We cannot afford to leave our characters in the back field unless they are purpose built to do so.

  • Terminator Chaos Lord/Sorcerers deepstriking alongside chaos terminators, summoning a suitable support unit next turn. (Blood letters, Daemonettes, Plague Bearers)
  • See previous, followed by Daemon engines, supported by a summoned herald to boost strength or, if named, for other benefits. (Ex: Changeling)
  • Summoning Fiends of Slaanesh, and warptiming them to ensure a successful charge and prevent characters, support, or another fragile unit from escaping
  • Summoning a Greater Daemon to either: Kill, Contest, or Support. Context dictates

This is my narrative voice.

My army is expendable towards achieving victory.

 

  The only way to truly lose is to take it seriously. After all, it's not even a real wargame.

 
gallery_63428_7083_6894.png


#8
DreamIsCollapsing

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I can not give advice on a "good list", but to put it bluntly: there is no way to build an "unfluffy WB list".

 

 

Agreed, World Bearer and Black Legion are the only two legion where you can put any chaos entry, whatever the god, whatever daemon or not. There is no unfluffy entry, and as they are rather balanced in their way of war you can be full dakka, full choppa, still fluff. 

 

If you really want to stick to the fluff you will need cultist, possessed, Dark apostle and Raptor with flamers. 

 

As for your liste we need to see how many point were are looking at. And you must remake it with (at least) one detachment with only Heretic Astartates and put your daemonic entry (great unclean, soul grinder) in another detachment. Otherwise you wont have stratagems, legions traits etc...


I looked down the sights of my rifle, my target looked back. It's eyes were all the eyes I'd ever loved. They promised everything I could ever want. Love, comfort, safety. An end to this nightmare. I felt my will draining out of me, entranced by those eyes.

 

Profil pic by Qsy draw a lot


#9
DoomulusPrime

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I really wish that with our rather lackluster Legion trait, us True Sons of Lorgar could take Daemons units (the four lesser Daemons) as troops and not have it stop us from getting our legion benefits...much like an expanded version of the Shadowy Allies rule.

Now, I don't think you **need** a Dark Apostle on the table, since in the Word Bearers Legion in particular, the person with the Dark Apostle role will more likely be analogous to a Chaos Lord oftentimes, where the Dark Apostle character could be used as merely First Acolyte. Add in a Chaos lieutenant or a secondary lord to act as Coryphaeus, and you're golden.

I have also found that Slaaneshi Possessed with the Banner and a Slaaneshi sorcerer babysitter tend to do work....d3x10 attacks that trigger Death to the False Emperor on a 4+? Yes please.

[edit]...though to be fair, I play almost exclusively using Power Levels...so this is probably a pretty hefty point sink in making an otherwise mediocre unit good...

Edited by DoomulusPrime, 02 September 2017 - 07:44 AM.

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#10
Sheesh Mode

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[edit]...though to be fair, I play almost exclusively using Power Levels...so this is probably a pretty hefty point sink in making an otherwise mediocre unit good...

I am skeptical of the board's assumption that Possessed are mediocre. Given that possessed benefit from Daemon and Chaos Marine auras it appears they can become quite deadly given sufficient support. Frankly a list of Daemonic hosts and Possessed vehicles would be well served by Word Bearer summoning.


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This is my narrative voice.

My army is expendable towards achieving victory.

 

  The only way to truly lose is to take it seriously. After all, it's not even a real wargame.

 
gallery_63428_7083_6894.png


#11
ChazSexington

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WB can make use of anything without being "unfluffy".

 

That said, I certainly feel that there are some units that are more distinctly WB in flavour:

  • Dark Apostles. Basically mandatory if you want to run fluffy WB. Fortunately he's a competitive choice.
  • Possessed. WB were the first legion to have Possessed marines and still have the largest numbers of them. Unfortunately not as competitive.
  • Cultists. WB are notorious for setting up cults with their zealous preaching. These guys will die to a still breeze, but run in a big horde (and making use of tide of traitors) WB can use them effectively.

Now let's look at what WB have going for them:

  • Voice of Lorgar (the Unique Warlord Trait) is pretty much made for Dark Apostles, allowing them to spread their useful command auras further. Okay on anything (barring sorcerers) really, seeing as most of the Chaos HQs have some nice buffs to hand out.
  • People say that Profane Zeal (Legion Trait) is bad, basically giving you ATSKNF which loyalists already have. I disagree somewhat. Profane Zeal is less situational than most of the other legion traits and always useful to have on hand. Excellent on cultists too, especially when backed up by a Dark Apostle.
  • Dark Pact (Legion Stratagem) is probably the biggest reason to play WB imo. World Bearers are without a doubt the best army at summoning in the game with this, able to reliably bring in big hordes of Lesser Daemons (or a few bigger ones). Being able to re-roll ANY dice (so keep the high ones) when summoning and ignoring the wounds that come with doubles/triples. For one CP this stratagem is great so make sure you can take advantage of it. Consider running multiple characters with Jump-Packs/Terminator Armour or maybe even a sorcerer on bike with warptime. Anything that can close the gap and allow you to start summoning turn two, right in their face.
  • The Cursed Crozious (Legion Relic) is also pretty good and arguably one of the better Legion Specific Relics. Good on a Lord or Dark Apostle, though you might be better picking something else if you aren't fighting Imperium (The Black Mace is also a good choice here).

As for a list, I'd lean heavily on Daemonic Allies. You can pull off all sorts of nasty combos, especially when you realise that many CSM units (Warp Talons and Possessed) have the DAEMON keyword and are thus able to be affected by buffs from Daemons. Some ideas:

  • Big Blob of Tzeentch Possessed around the Changeling (picking Boon of Mutation for his Power). Possessed are -1 to hit at range and melee and Boon buffs up their CC ability regardless of what you roll on the D3 chart.
  • Sorcerer on Bike with Warptime or DP with Warptime. Stay stationary in the movement phase and summon your choice of Daemons, conga-lining them back towards the Sorc/DP. Cast Warptime on the unit and move them up for an easy charge.
  • Warp-Talons with Mark of Tzeentch and a Sorc with Warptime drop out of deepstrike and get an easy charge without overwatch (assuming you get warptime off). Next turn the Sorc summons the Changeling to give the Talons -1 to hit.

Be creative, I dunno...they were just some off the top of my head.

 

I would make one change - Have loads of summoned Daemons. Otherwise, pretty solid. 


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Ceterum autem censeo Macragginem delendam esse.


#12
Dardl

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Honestly I just don't see the point in summoning. Can anyone sell me on Summoning? The only advantage I can see is that it lets you surprise your opponent. I suppose it also lets you keep your word bearer trait but honestly you could just run the daemons alongside your army no? Maybe even get more command points? 


Edited by Dardl, 05 September 2017 - 09:21 AM.


#13
the jeske

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you are right. summoning 9 out of 10 times makes no sense, as you could take the same demons and have them on the table turn 1. The suprise factor is also not so great. First of all your opponent, unless he doesn't know how to read/want to read, will see that your playing a X-Ypts list, and as much as I like demons their are not the case of this is 200-250pts this is 5-6 units/models that cost this much and are good. Most of the time you would be trying to buy somethin very specific for the situation, which means you are wasting points. Now if summoning was the only way to get demons if you played CSM [not that I would like something like that happening], then we could argue about stuff. Or if it let you get around relic limitations [be it CP cost or per army one]. then we could think about summoning as something maybe useful[in a very fring way]. As this is neither the case, it is better to just take a detachment of demons if someone wants demons.


"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


#14
Closet Skeleton

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Possessed are generally sub par compared to khorne berzerkers, that is far from being the same thing as 'non-competitive'. They also have a lot of advantages over khorne berzerkers that stop just short of making up for their point inefficiency.

 

Summoning isn't really any different to other forms of deep strike. If you need the extra bodies on the board at the start to attract fire then you're probably not playing with enough line of sight blocking terrain.



#15
MasterDeath

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Summoning gives you options beyond choosing the Units you want, after seeing what your opponent brings. It also increases your options of grabbing VP. Need to get that point 14" away? Summon something cheap on it. That squad of "Death on foot" will charge something you hold dear in their next turn? Put a Squad of something in their way, so they have to walk around. Your chaff just got wiped out? Summon something new to catch bullets. Need to get something into the opponents area? Use the movement of one of your chars in CC and summon behind them. Furthermore, you roll first and choose then. So you rolled really well on those 2d6? Soulgrinder to the Face!

Many people look at Summoning and compare it to deepstriking. The result is "Deepstriking is better in getting my stuff into CC" so a strategic choice you do while creating your list. But summoning is more about tactical choices that arise during the game. You still have to plan for it. A primary summoner like a Lord staying with your shooty units is needed, to get your points on the table.

 

Example:

 

Lord, Combi-Plasma (for Daemon Shell), Powerfist

 

He stays in the back in cover with your tanks/Havocs/Defilers to buff them. First turn he summons a Herald in a forward position (behind chaff of course) that serves as another primary summoner. All Sorcerors can if needed summon from turn 2 on (1 turn to get into smite range). Everything else can summon once locked in CC. You want to cover as much of the table as you can with your 12" summon bubble. Especially the VP.

 

Last hint: If you summon troop deamon, take the Instrument along. You need only an 8 to charge succesfully then, making it pretty reliable to charge directly after summon.

 

And about the "I could just take a Detachement for CP"- Argument. Just think of it as paying CP to let your Deamons Deepstrike. Everyone seems to fancy about the AL infiltration stratagem. Thats also paying CP for Setup Options. Not much different.


Edited by MasterDeath, 06 September 2017 - 07:12 AM.


#16
Dardl

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Hey guys Honest opinion what do you think of this Word bearers list? 

Battalion Detachment +3CP

Hq:
Chaos Lord: Mark of Khorne, power axe, bolt pistol
Dark Apostle: Cursed Crozious

Troops: 
40 cultists autoguns with two heavy stubbers mark of slaanesh
10 cultists
Chaos Space Marines mark of slaanesh x 10 with boltguns, a lascannon and a plasma gun inside a rhino powerfist on champ.

Elites:
Hellbrute with missile launcher and twin lascannon mark of slaanesh
Hellbrute with Melta gun and fist mark of nurgle
9 possessed to go with chaos lord in rhino mark of slaanesh icon of excess

fast attack:
Raptors: x 5 two melta guns

Battalion Detachment +3CP
Hq:
Herald of Nurgle
Mamon transfigured 


Troops: 
Plaguebearers x 10
Plaguebearers x 10
Plaguebearers x 10


heavy support 
soul grinder of nurgle

1995 pts. 

What do you think? 



#17
Sheesh Mode

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What's going on with the second battalion? Are you deploying those models are summoning them?


This is my narrative voice.

My army is expendable towards achieving victory.

 

  The only way to truly lose is to take it seriously. After all, it's not even a real wargame.

 
gallery_63428_7083_6894.png


#18
MasterDeath

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What's going on with the second battalion? Are you deploying those models are summoning them?

 

Models in a Detachement cannot be summoned. Points in Reserve can be summoned.



#19
Closet Skeleton

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Chaos Lord: Mark of Khorne, power axe, bolt pistol
9 possessed to go with chaos lord in rhino mark of slaanesh icon of excess

What do you think? 

 

What happened to fluffy?

 

Chaos marines would be better with two plasma guns. Lascannons are too expensive to throw in rhinos.

 

Cultists should probably be two equal sized blobs.

 

Marks are worthless on dreadnoughts unless you take a sorcerer with that mark.

 

One Assault deathstar is probably not enough. I'd give them some more close combat support.

 

Three units of 10 plague bearers aren't terrible at holding objectives but won't do much else.

 

But really you have to just take a list and play games with it to work out what needs fixing.



#20
Dardl

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What's going on with the second battalion? Are you deploying those models are summoning them?

Apologies for not replying gentlemen was very busy with work! 

The second battalion is for extra command points I don't really see summoning working in 2k games. 
 

 

 

Chaos Lord: Mark of Khorne, power axe, bolt pistol
9 possessed to go with chaos lord in rhino mark of slaanesh icon of excess

What do you think? 

 

What happened to fluffy?

 

Chaos marines would be better with two plasma guns. Lascannons are too expensive to throw in rhinos.

 

Cultists should probably be two equal sized blobs.

 

Marks are worthless on dreadnoughts unless you take a sorcerer with that mark.

 

One Assault deathstar is probably not enough. I'd give them some more close combat support.

 

Three units of 10 plague bearers aren't terrible at holding objectives but won't do much else.

 

But really you have to just take a list and play games with it to work out what needs fixing.

 

What's not fluffy about it? 

I disagree on the las cannon you are paying 72 points for the rhino nothing is too expensive to put in it, you'd foot slog it?

as for the mark on the helbrute can you not use a slaanesh stratagem to make it fire twice? apologies if i'm wrong :/

I'm honestly lost with word bearers I just can squeeze enough in in 2k points :/



#21
shiwan8

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I'm honestly lost with word bearers I just can squeeze enough in in 2k points :/


The problem with WB is that the legion trait does nothing and summonin as is does not do it's job in matched play. You are essentially playing index chaos with WB. Literally every legion does WB better than WB, BL and IW especially. There are no strategies that can be built around what WB offers. The good thing about it is that you really don't have to care about the unit's you use, because you can do anything the game allows and you are not going to have it worse than you would with mono codex. Mix any force you want and it's fluffy. Then again by playing anything else from the codex lets you benefit from playing fluffy armies so...yeah.....




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