Ideally...how many HH books to cover the Siege?

[Scribe]

 

 

If there's an opportunity to make money you can bet said money that the Siege will be strung out and flogged like a flogged thing being dragged through flogged-ville by a flogger.

Naw. This is coming to an end a lot faster than many people think.

Please write the final scenes.

 

Angron and the Angel.

Horus and the Angel.

Horus and the Emperor.

 

Between you, French and Wraight, nobody respects the setting AND writes as well as you guys.

 

Others may have one, or the other, but not both.

 

I will not accept any other presentation of the E vs Horus unless it comes from you. :(

[Marshal Loss]

I really, really hope ADB gets to do the final fight. That would be the dream. Close second would be Wraight.

 

5 books sounds good for the siege though. So long as I get to see Khârn vs. Morty, EC gallivanting around the world harvesting an entire planetary population, Sigismund being epic on the wall, and hopefully some Abaddon action, I'll be a happy chap.

[Roomsky]

So long as I get to see Khârn vs. Morty

 

Well, that sounds a little one-sided.

[HeritorA]

Tymell

Yeah. 'That sounds very much like a statement of fact, whereas the above detailed post sounds more like what you think might happen, which is really all any of us can say at this point.' - I think that's the statement, I did explained why I think so.

If they simply chop half of stuff I mentioned for FW books etc. - they could rush it a year or 2. But in that case HH will never end. We all know how long it take to do '1' HH Forge World book.

 

As for the

'Regarding the above, do you have any sources on John French doing a Titan Death novel and a second novel being done covering Beta-Garmon? To my knowledge, nothing is confirmed there.'

- chat with some guys from GW/BL during event. That could be a wishful thinking or truth for all I know.

But comparing that to the fact French told in veterannoob podcast with French that he is doing unnamed HH novels with a big battle scene and 'TitanDeath' - yeah I could figure out that John French is doing Beta-Garmont.

 

As for the 'Recent years have also seen an increase in the release rate from BL, with this year falling into a general 2 month pattern as mentioned by others.'  - probably, but I do no see that. And let me explain why. How many HH releases did you have this year? Post-poned MOM to hide the fact that it was a 2016 release, Garro - re-release. Shattered Legions reprint, Crimson King - first new novel for real, Tallarn again same re-released stuff.  And now only we will have 'Ruinstorm' new stuff for October and 'Old Earth' for December.

So the usual BL release schedule - nothing changed. Number of old stuff = number of new stuff. Number of new stuff = 4-5 new book per year.

 

1. How long does the Siege of Terra take? A siege implies sustained pressure against a fortified position over a protracted period. I don't usually think of a punctuated battle when I think of a siege.

 

I'm assuming the Siege of Terra is at least a weeks long affair, if not months long. Feel free to correct me.

 

2. I think they have to cover how the Traitors break through the Rings of Iron of the Sol system. I think that could be enough for a novel.

 

Point 2 well said. If they simply forget that and slingshoted to Terra - that would be a major cheat.

 

 

1. How long does the Siege of Terra take? A siege implies sustained pressure against a fortified position over a protracted period. I don't usually think of a punctuated battle when I think of a siege.

I'm assuming the Siege of Terra is at least a weeks long affair, if not months long. Feel free to correct me.

2. I think they have to cover how the Traitors break through the Rings of Iron of the Sol system. I think that could be enough for a novel.

Will have to locate the fluff but pretty sure the siege lasts months and as you say there is the "siege" of the Sol system not just Terra.

 

I reckon the HH series will end up having 60 books in the numbered series. Why? Just a gut feeling. So Old Earth is 47 so we have 13 to go. I reckon it is safe to say 3-4 of those will be anthologies so that leaves 9-10 novels. I suspect 3-5 of those will be in the Sol system/Terra.

 

 You have the same gutter feeling as me brother :) I too think they will have 60 numbered books in the serie. 

 

"So Old Earth is 47 so we have 13 to go. I reckon it is safe to say 3-4 of those will be anthologies so that leaves 9-10 novels. I suspect 3-5 of those will be in the Sol system/Terra." - EXACTLY!

Marshal Loss

For obvious reasons the last book for the Siege should be written by Abnett.

Roomsky

He thought about  Khan

[Tymell]

Tymell

Yeah. 'That sounds very much like a statement of fact, whereas the above detailed post sounds more like what you think might happen, which is really all any of us can say at this point.' - I think that's the statement, I did explained why I think so.

If they simply chop half of stuff I mentioned for FW books etc. - they could rush it a year or 2. But in that case HH will never end. We all know how long it take to do '1' HH Forge World book.

 

As for the

'Regarding the above, do you have any sources on John French doing a Titan Death novel and a second novel being done covering Beta-Garmon? To my knowledge, nothing is confirmed there.'

- chat with some guys from GW/BL during event. That could be a wishful thinking or truth for all I know.

But comparing that to the fact French told in veterannoob podcast with French that he is doing unnamed HH novels with a big battle scene and 'TitanDeath' - yeah I could figure out that John French is doing Beta-Garmont.

 

 

Great news about French doing another HH book, but the only mention I recall is that he's done -a- novel, not that there is a second one. Could be I missed something though.

 

With FW, they've already stated they plan to do a lot of books, their series will almost certainly go on beyond BL doing the Siege. We've already seen plenty of events on their timeline covered only by FW books: Paramar V, Cyclopcs Cluster/Manachea/Coronid Deeps, Xana, Bodt, the journey of Xiaphas Jurr, and potentially upcoming from Angelus, Sarum and the Siege of Baal. The point is, just because an event is shown on that FW timeline, doesn't necessarily mean it will be covered in a BL book. It might, it might not.

[JH79]

 

Horus and the Emperor.

 

I will not accept any other presentation of the E vs Horus unless it comes from you. 

 

I cannot even imagine the pressure that any of BL's authors would feel if they were spotlight nominated to handle this... one thing is for certain though, AD-B laid the foundations for how I think the confrontation should be handled with his masterful clash between good and evil toward the end of Black Legion.

 

Sometimes the best way to show something is by not showing it at all 

[R_F_D]

 

I will not accept any other presentation of the E vs Horus unless it comes from you.

 

 

I was actually going to mention this in @b1soul's thread on A passage capturing the essence of your fave legion... but the premonition (I think it is) that Oll Pearson has in No Know Fear for the big show down is possible my favourite passage in the HH.  So I'd be happy for Dan Abnett to do it.

[bluntblade]

I like the idea of just using Dorn (or a Fist) and Ollianus' perspectives

[Mellow]

I don't want to see Khan and Mortarion fight. I don't care. They both survive according to existing lore so what does it even matter what they do. Other than help out with "sweeping aside dozens of foes" and "decapitating all within their swords reach" blah blah. Terribly boring. We know they are awesome and we know they survive. The only way they could spice it up is be Khan getting killed but that would involve tears all round. Probably some of them belonging to the big crybaby Sanguinius.

[HeritorA]

 

Tymell

Yeah. 'That sounds very much like a statement of fact, whereas the above detailed post sounds more like what you think might happen, which is really all any of us can say at this point.' - I think that's the statement, I did explained why I think so.

If they simply chop half of stuff I mentioned for FW books etc. - they could rush it a year or 2. But in that case HH will never end. We all know how long it take to do '1' HH Forge World book.

 

As for the

'Regarding the above, do you have any sources on John French doing a Titan Death novel and a second novel being done covering Beta-Garmon? To my knowledge, nothing is confirmed there.'

- chat with some guys from GW/BL during event. That could be a wishful thinking or truth for all I know.

But comparing that to the fact French told in veterannoob podcast with French that he is doing unnamed HH novels with a big battle scene and 'TitanDeath' - yeah I could figure out that John French is doing Beta-Garmont.

 

 

Great news about French doing another HH book, but the only mention I recall is that he's done -a- novel, not that there is a second one. Could be I missed something though.

 

With FW, they've already stated they plan to do a lot of books, their series will almost certainly go on beyond BL doing the Siege. We've already seen plenty of events on their timeline covered only by FW books: Paramar V, Cyclopcs Cluster/Manachea/Coronid Deeps, Xana, Bodt, the journey of Xiaphas Jurr, and potentially upcoming from Angelus, Sarum and the Siege of Baal. The point is, just because an event is shown on that FW timeline, doesn't necessarily mean it will be covered in a BL book. It might, it might not.

 

 

Totally true. But I didn't mentioned every event from the timeline. Only the major one. Which should be described in novels - cause they are too important to miss.

 

I like the idea of just using Dorn (or a Fist) and Ollianus' perspectives

It would be good - I think they will do the penultimate and half of the last book from the IF point of view. After all it's their time 'to shine'

I don't want to see Khan and Mortarion fight. I don't care. They both survive according to existing lore so what does it even matter what they do. Other than help out with "sweeping aside dozens of foes" and "decapitating all within their swords reach" blah blah. Terribly boring. We know they are awesome and we know they survive. The only way they could spice it up is be Khan getting killed but that would involve tears all round. Probably some of them belonging to the big crybaby Sanguinius.

WELL - I thought so too, while reading all that Curze vs everybody duels. But then I did read Scars 'Prospero' duel and I'm hooked for more. Point is not in what we know. Point is - how Wraight masterfully described it (especially that lovely 'one strike' opportunity)

[Indefragable]

I like the idea of just using Dorn (or a Fist) and Ollianus' perspectives

I have to admit there is something incredibly appealing about that idea. All we know is what Dorn finds when he enters the bridge if the Vengeful Spirit. He is the only one that can tell what he saw because even the Astartes' heads blow up at the sight of what they find. And Dorn, stalwart, unshakeable, unflinching Dorn, is shell shocked to the point of coma by what he finds. He is so effected that only Khan's underrated abilities hold things together just long enough for Russ and El'Jonson to arrive and restore order.

 

*******

 

...the above being said, I feel that at this point we have to see everything in cinematic fashion. My personal biggest concern is that showing the events helps prevent even more retcons. Secondly, not to play a broken record, but the series--whether intentional or not--has essentially been "saving" certain characters for these big moments. So if they are not shown off then, when will they ever be?

 

So I agree with your idea and point, but I think this is not the series (as it stands) for that type of literary maneuver.

[HeritorA]

 

I like the idea of just using Dorn (or a Fist) and Ollianus' perspectives

I have to admit there is something incredibly appealing about that idea. All we know is what Dorn finds when he enters the bridge if the Vengeful Spirit. He is the only one that can tell what he saw because even the Astartes' heads blow up at the sight of what they find. And Dorn, stalwart, unshakeable, unflinching Dorn, is shell shocked to the point of coma by what he finds. He is so effected that only Khan's underrated abilities hold things together just long enough for Russ and El'Jonson to arrive and restore order.

 

*******

 

...the above being said, I feel that at this point we have to see everything in cinematic fashion. My personal biggest concern is that showing the events helps prevent even more retcons. Secondly, not to play a broken record, but the series--whether intentional or not--has essentially been "saving" certain characters for these big moments. So if they are not shown off then, when will they ever be?

 

So I agree with your idea and point, but I think this is not the series (as it stands) for that type of literary maneuver.

 

It's not even that dependant on the setting, as on authors and build up hype

[Scribe]

 

 

Horus and the Emperor.

 

I will not accept any other presentation of the E vs Horus unless it comes from you. 

 

I cannot even imagine the pressure that any of BL's authors would feel if they were spotlight nominated to handle this... one thing is for certain though, AD-B laid the foundations for how I think the confrontation should be handled with his masterful clash between good and evil toward the end of Black Legion.

 

Sometimes the best way to show something is by not showing it at all 

 

 

I think ADB puts more pressure on himself than I ever could from the other side of the planet, on my increasingly wet island. :p

[b1soul]

The only way they could spice it up is be Khan getting killed but that would involve tears all round. Probably some of them belonging to the big crybaby Sanguinius.

Well...they could spice it up in a number of ways. The duel could yield a definitive winner without a death...

 

1. Khan almost dies a la Curze in Prince of Crows

2. Mort almost dies a la Curze in Prince of Crows (the loss spurrs him to take more of Nurgle's gifts)

3. If Mort has become a Daemon Primarch, Mort gets banished

 

I agree that a duel is not necessary

[HeritorA]

 

 

 

Horus and the Emperor.

 

I will not accept any other presentation of the E vs Horus unless it comes from you. 

 

I cannot even imagine the pressure that any of BL's authors would feel if they were spotlight nominated to handle this... one thing is for certain though, AD-B laid the foundations for how I think the confrontation should be handled with his masterful clash between good and evil toward the end of Black Legion.

 

Sometimes the best way to show something is by not showing it at all 

 

 

I think ADB puts more pressure on himself than I ever could from the other side of the planet, on my increasingly wet island.

 

I do appreciate being a fan of some particular author. But in this case A D-B is a bit overrated. I do like his books - but do not think that he should be the one to finish the HH, or write the main books further on. Sure - he or Haley can do Sanguinius part.

 

For the sake of consistency and good prose - Abnett should finish it all in my humble opinion. Wraight should do WS counterattack at Lions spaceport. Haley/A D-B should do Sangy and Eternity gate. Swallow/French could do Mortarion/Horus for the other side during the siege.

[JH79]

 

Well...they could spice it up in a number of ways. The duel could yield a definitive winner without a death...

1. Khan almost dies a la Curze in Prince of Crows

2. Mort almost dies a la Curze in Prince of Crows (the loss spurrs him to take more of Nurgle's gifts)

3. If Mort has become a Daemon Primarch, Mort gets banished

 

I agree that a duel is not necessary

It may not be necessary, but it would be awesome to have this covered!! 

 

 

 

 

 

Horus and the Emperor.

 

I will not accept any other presentation of the E vs Horus unless it comes from you. 

 

I cannot even imagine the pressure that any of BL's authors would feel if they were spotlight nominated to handle this... one thing is for certain though, AD-B laid the foundations for how I think the confrontation should be handled with his masterful clash between good and evil toward the end of Black Legion.

 

Sometimes the best way to show something is by not showing it at all 

 

 

I think ADB puts more pressure on himself than I ever could from the other side of the planet, on my increasingly wet island.

 

I do appreciate being a fan of some particular author. But in this case A D-B is a bit overrated. I do like his books - but do not think that he should be the one to finish the HH, or write the main books further on. Sure - he or Haley can do Sanguinius part.

 

For the sake of consistency and good prose - Abnett should finish it all in my humble opinion. Wraight should do WS counterattack at Lions spaceport. Haley/A D-B should do Sangy and Eternity gate. Swallow/French could do Mortarion/Horus for the other side during the siege.

I think Aaron would be the first to agree that he doesn't want to finish the series, he's already said on here that it should be Abnett and that if he could write anything to do with the siege it'd be about a certain Primarch with big wings protecting a big door behind which the big man sits in his big chair... official synopsis right there for my predicted release of HH: 54 lol 

[HeritorA]

 

 

Well...they could spice it up in a number of ways. The duel could yield a definitive winner without a death...

1. Khan almost dies a la Curze in Prince of Crows

2. Mort almost dies a la Curze in Prince of Crows (the loss spurrs him to take more of Nurgle's gifts)

3. If Mort has become a Daemon Primarch, Mort gets banished

 

I agree that a duel is not necessary

It may not be necessary, but it would be awesome to have this covered!! 

 

 

 

 

 

Horus and the Emperor.

 

I will not accept any other presentation of the E vs Horus unless it comes from you. 

 

I cannot even imagine the pressure that any of BL's authors would feel if they were spotlight nominated to handle this... one thing is for certain though, AD-B laid the foundations for how I think the confrontation should be handled with his masterful clash between good and evil toward the end of Black Legion.

 

Sometimes the best way to show something is by not showing it at all 

 

 

I think ADB puts more pressure on himself than I ever could from the other side of the planet, on my increasingly wet island.

 

I do appreciate being a fan of some particular author. But in this case A D-B is a bit overrated. I do like his books - but do not think that he should be the one to finish the HH, or write the main books further on. Sure - he or Haley can do Sanguinius part.

 

For the sake of consistency and good prose - Abnett should finish it all in my humble opinion. Wraight should do WS counterattack at Lions spaceport. Haley/A D-B should do Sangy and Eternity gate. Swallow/French could do Mortarion/Horus for the other side during the siege.

I think Aaron would be the first to agree that he doesn't want to finish the series, he's already said on here that it should be Abnett and that if he could write anything to do with the siege it'd be about a certain Primarch with big wings protecting a big door behind which the big man sits in his big chair... official synopsis right there for my predicted release of HH: 54 lol 

 

Good point. And nice prediction - totally what could be. The only point I do not agree is the time of 'predicted' release - we wouldn't see it till 2020 ;)

[Arkangilos]

 

 

 

If there's an opportunity to make money you can bet said money that the Siege will be strung out and flogged like a flogged thing being dragged through flogged-ville by a flogger.

Naw. This is coming to an end a lot faster than many people think.

Please write the final scenes.

 

Angron and the Angel.

Horus and the Angel.

Horus and the Emperor.

 

Between you, French and Wraight, nobody respects the setting AND writes as well as you guys.

 

Others may have one, or the other, but not both.

 

I will not accept any other presentation of the E vs Horus unless it comes from you. :(

I could strongly get behind Guy Haley taking the Blood Angel portions.

[Marshal Loss]

 

So long as I get to see Khârn vs. Morty

 

Well, that sounds a little one-sided.

 

 

Whoops. Yeah, wouldn't want to see Morty get embarrassed

 

On a serious note, I do want to see the Khan and Mortarion fight, but not to see who would win - I don't care. The duel in Scars wasn't notable for the combat, but for the dialogue between the two. It's ominous and foreshadows what we know will come. I want to hear what they have to say to each other, one last time. Primarch duels may have been done to death in places, but that doesn't mean they don't have a place. The duels where something worth saying is said - Khan v. Morty, Angron/Lorgar v. Guilliman etc, are extremely memorable.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Marshal Loss

[Scribe]

After Unremembered Empire (the clown show that was Nighthaunter's Comic book romp through a world) and especially Prospero Burns...I just dont trust Abnett to end the series well.

 

Unpopular opinion I guess, but I dont.

[R_F_D]

Fair dos.  I've only read it once, and in one sitting at that, so the comic book feel doesn't ring a bell with me.  Although I totally accept that it is a common criticism of it.

[HeritorA]

After Unremembered Empire (the clown show that was Nighthaunter's Comic book romp through a world) and especially Prospero Burns...I just dont trust Abnett to end the series well.

 

Unpopular opinion I guess, but I dont.

Unremembered Empire - is not an Abnett fault. He got that absolutely empty filler setting and done what he could. Abnett deserve to finish it all cause he should be judge not by stupid IS plotline or 'wet leopard growl' - but by Horus Rising and Legion - which are both an amazing read.

 

Arkangilos

With all respect to Haley - Sanguinius should be done by A D-B or Abnett or (Gods forgive me - McNeil).

[Scribe]

Its Abnett's name on the book, who else are you going to blame for turning Haunter into a stereotypical super villian?

 

The book was bad, and thats his last work.

 

I dont know, to me its a moot point. I dont pick the writers. I know who I want, why I want them, and what I want out of the conclusion, but I'm ready for disappointment as well.

[b1soul]

I don't think the book is bad...it has questionable elements, but I remember reading it in 2 or 3 sittings and enjoying most of it.

 

I think Abnett is a very strong writer...and he introduced Imperium Secundus in decent fashion. Pharos was serviceable and AoC was bad.

 

I think Imperium Secundus itself is hard to fashion into a multi novel story arc. It's essentially the story of how Guilliman declares a second Imperium based on anassumption and finds out he's wrong.

 

It's also strange that he'd want to call it the second Imperium. Why not just say he's preserving the same old Imperium?

[rendingon1+]

I think Abnett is a very strong writer...and he introduced Imperium Secundus in decent fashion. Pharos was serviceable and AoC was bad.

 

You should reverse it to be true lol.