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Preparing for Death Guard


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#1
Kasper_Hawser

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OK, the next level of cheese is about to hit us by end of the week. If you feel the current plague marines, poxwalkers, Typhus and other Nurgle units that first came out in 8th edition, and then reinforced by the Heretic Astartes codex are powerful enough as it is, the new Deathguard looks like it is going to dial up to 11. and I'm not even talking about Mortarion yet since I'm going to absolutely refuse to play against that until and unless I get some Forgeworld overpowered something to help counter Mortarion, like a Leviathan Siege Dreadnought or even a damn Caestus Ram to shove my Wulfen in Mortarion's face Turn 1.

 

That's the problem really. The Death Guard resilience to small arms is something we all can expect from crunch and fluff perspective. What irritates me is their ability to cause mortal wounds OUTSIDE of psychic abilities. If I'm reading the current revealed rules correctly, it looks like as long as Typhus, Mortarion or the Lords of Contagion is around, anybody fighting a plague unit is going to risk hurting itself. Unless its' a horde of cheap tarpits which our only alternative are the Fenrisian Wolves.

 

With the new codex, the ability to throw random mortal wounds is further reinforced:

 

http://www.belloflos...ems-relics.html

 

1) Nurgle's Rot Strategems - one which allows all enemy units within 7" of a chosen unit to get a mortal wound on 4+ dice roll. Very expensive at 3 Command points so its not like he/she can do it every turn.

 

2) Putrid detonation - make a vehicle automatically explode without needing to roll a six. Yikes, now they got incentive to shove their vehicles full speed. Although since even Rhinos aren't that cheap anymore, probably only a last minute desperate move

 

For relics there are 2 that boost the mortal wound spam

 

3) A relic armour of sorts which provides 2+ save. Every time the character makes a armour save, they can then inflict the 4+ mortal wound dice roll again after it's own attacks are resolved. Meaning if he charged, the defending unit might not be able to swing thanks to the last 4+ mortal wound

 

4) A super skaven bell relic that not only debuffs your morale tests by making you roll 2 dice and discard the lowest, but also inflicts a mortal wound to all units in 7" around it, but this time at 6+ dice roll so not so bad.

 

5) There's a Warlord trait which AGAIN inflicts a mortal wound on 4+.

 

OK, despite my disdain of ranged combat and my eagerness to always get into glorious combat, I think going anywhere NEAR these guys before some serious dakka is going to end badly even for our elite assault units like Wulfen, TWC and Terminators. I always thought that the ability to inflict and survive mortal wounds should be something special and not so widespread, but the Death Guard seem to at least have a chance to inflict it in quantities which is almost as bad as Daemons and Grey Knights, and at least those two only do it in psychic phase.

 

That being said, most of the rolls have to be made on 4+, but that's still a big chance of doing free damage that can't be saved unless you are Bjorn or Wulfen.

 

Damn, this will really put the Index Imperium 1 armies down. and we still don't know how powerful the new Death Guard tanks are. I'm guessing its a combination of a Whirlwind artillery with Predator sponsoons. If it's a Whirldwind weapon, I estimate it'll have a chance to inflict mortal wounds but hopefully has AP0.

 

Double damn, I'm now finally compelled to get Aggressors to deal with the inevitable tide of pox walkers.

 

Triple damn, I need more dakka and may have to get the Redemptor Dreadnought or Repulsor

 

negative one damn - Twin Assault cannons on multiple razorbacks should still wreck the poxwalker's day when combined with a batttle leader reroll 1s t wound.

 

Thoughts on the new upcoming Death Guard so far?


"The 6th Legion has a reputation." said Bear.
"All the Legions Astartes have reputations," replied Hawser.
"Not like ours," said Ogvai "We are known for our ferocity. We are thought to be feral and undisciplined. Even brother Legions consider us to be wild and bestial."
"And you're not ?" asked Hawser.
"If we need to be," said Ogvai. "but if that was our natural state, we'd all be dead by now."
He leaned down towards Hawser like a parent addressing a child.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous" he said.

 

Excerpt from "Prospero Burns" by Dan Abnett


#2
Caldersson

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All I can say is "Wolf Scouts with Sniper Rifles". DG rely on their HQ's to really bolster them.  I know some said it was dumb but after playing a couple games as DG it is the only way to deal with them. You can try to sit there and plink away trying to twiddle down their forces but by the time the poxwalkers are done they are on you. You can rush into melee and get hit with tons of Mortal Wounds. 

 

I know some people say wulfen for their FNP to ignore Mortal Wounds, but how long can they stand up to a couple squads of PM that won't stop and you can only stop 1/3 of those Mortal Wounds with a 5+FNP. It isn't cost effective.

 

Kill the HQ's and Psykers and watch the DG war machine slowly get stuck in the mud.


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#3
Fang_Guard23

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The space wolves, you can use a spearhead detachment to provide a set of long range support and loads of Dakka, basically they sound like the death guard explode when you get too close and try to kill them with close combat weapons. I would say employ the tactics of Bjorn Stormwolf, Long Fangs, Predators and vindicators  



#4
Bulwyf

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Njarl and his jaws psyker attack should help on slow units which is the whole death guard army
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#5
Garreck

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It's worth pointing out the Nurgle's Rot strategem can only be used once per battle.  So there's that.

 

But getting close to new Death Guard seems a quick way to lose.  They surely can crank out a prodigous amount of mortal wounds.

 

They seem a hard counter to wulfen and thunderwolf cavalry.  That said, we're well equipped to deal with the threat outside of our trophy assault units.  I think against death guard, our grey hunters in razorbacks will shine.  Wolf guard on bikes excel at kiting and shooting.  The mortal wound threat range is largely 7" or less.  Move and shoot as much as possible.  Ignore what you can, focus fire on units you can't.  Keep Bjorn close for the rerolls, charge him in against preferably softened-up characters.

 

Primaris would help here as well.  Aggressors are a particularly ridiculous screening unit, and the extra AP from hellblasters and intercessors is clutch. 


Edited by Garreck, 06 September 2017 - 07:08 PM.


#6
Bulwyf

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I can't help but feel GW is forcing all non death guard players with a SM army to stock up on Primaris and Aggressors just to deal with DG.


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#7
Wolf Guard Dan

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In general certain armies will be harder to play until their codex drops. Stratagems are pretty important to armies now (Imp Guard are the exception right now). So we are fighting a tougher fight until the dex drops or until we get something via Chapter Approved. It's just part of the process for NewHammer 40k. Luckily releases have been rapid.

 

Death Guard look like a really strong release. And Mortarion looks incredible. The increase in the opportunities to cause mortal wounds is harsher on elite power armor armies like us. I will hold judgement until the codex is dropped and we know point costs.

 

I don't think Wolf Scout snipers are efficient enough to take out their characters. They're pretty resilient and will still get to FnP against our mortal wounds. These aren't 3 wound Commisars. These are hulking resilient Death Guard. If anything Marine Scouts or Ratlings are the way to go but still probably not up to the task. Behind Enemy Lines is not good deployment for snipers (not very good for any scout build IMO... and they're elities.. agghhhh I digressed).

 

I think our best chance is to shoot them to pieces before they get close. If you get engaged with Suppurating Plate character don't engage him with units that don't have -AP. Hammers and Swords all day. And remember you are probably only facing one or two relics unless the enemy really invests CP.


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'It takes a vast amount of control to be this dangerous.' -Prospero Burns

#8
Wulfgar76

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Similar to other thoughts, I think long range, multi-damage shooting is the way to deal with DG. Mobility will also be a factor since we should be able to outpace them in most instances. Mortarion is probably the exception here.
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#9
Kasper_Hawser

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A lot of good ideas to help curb the feeling of doom and despair (?!?!?! I thought Nurgle wanted to spread happy thoughts via disease and miasma) that the upcoming Death Guard want to spread to the universe. Instead of fixating on their ability to inflict mortal wounds left, right and centre, we should be figuring out a way to either cut them down to size before they inevitably close the gap, or slow them down even further to maximise more dakka.

 

Strategy Number 1 by Calderson

 

All I can say is "Wolf Scouts with Sniper Rifles". DG rely on their HQ's to really bolster them.  I know some said it was dumb but after playing a couple games as DG it is the only way to deal with them. You can try to sit there and plink away trying to twiddle down their forces but by the time the poxwalkers are done they are on you. You can rush into melee and get hit with tons of Mortal Wounds. 

 

I know some people say wulfen for their FNP to ignore Mortal Wounds, but how long can they stand up to a couple squads of PM that won't stop and you can only stop 1/3 of those Mortal Wounds with a 5+FNP. It isn't cost effective.

 

Kill the HQ's and Psykers and watch the DG war machine slowly get stuck in the mud.

 

He suggested to focus on taking down their HQs. Sadly I disagree as 10 S4 sniper shots from a full 10 man squad isn't going to kill ONE character over the course of 3 turns let alone the three to four I expect in coming list. (Typhus, Bell ringer and a couple of corpulent sorcerers). Wounding against T5 is already difficult, but add in disgusting resilience.... not good.

 

and Wulfen only have two wounds, not enough to charge and shrug off the mortal wounds via death frenzy. Although the Wulfen will make nice suicide units assuming they don't get killed via plasma first which the Death Guard do very well now.

 

 

The space wolves, you can use a spearhead detachment to provide a set of long range support and loads of Dakka, basically they sound like the death guard explode when you get too close and try to kill them with close combat weapons. I would say employ the tactics of Bjorn Stormwolf, Long Fangs, Predators and vindicators  

 

Strategy 2: Massive gunline via Spearhead Detachment with every Long Fang with multi wound weapons, tank and flyer we got, bolstered by Bjorn who should be able to handle what's left. Actually this does seem like a hard counter to a foot slogging list, but it is not a TAC list so to speak. Also the more units we deploy, the less chance we have of going first and if the Deathshroud terminators become a thing, our gunline maybe vulnerable to deepstrikers who will most likely shoot first and potentially charge. Then again, that's what Bjorn will be for.

 

 


Njarl and his jaws psyker attack should help on slow units which is the whole death guard army

 

Strategy 3: Jaws of the World Wolf would seem tailored vs slow armies, except that the Death Guard will not be lacking in the psychic defence, and Jaws also cost a very hefty warp charge 7 to cast. Plus, Death Guard STILL get their Disgusting Resilience saves. Best used on the Plague marines or terminators, but it can be defended. And I guess with our cheap Rune Priests, we can potentially spam via supreme command detachment a number of priests on bikes to increase chance of casting successfully. Might be more useful to increase cover saves for the Strategy 2 gunline though, to defend against the inevitable Death Guard heavy support.

 

 

I can't help but feel GW is forcing all non death guard players with a SM army to stock up on Primaris and Aggressors just to deal with DG.

 

Strategy 4: Yup, Aggressors certainly seem tailored to fight hordes although I haven't really seen them on the board yet against hordes. But again, have to remind ourselves that the Death Guard WILL have their own heavy support or deepstrikers, who will most certainly try take out the Aggressors. Even the Redemptor Dreadnought and Repulsor's obscene amount of guns seem to take into account the Death Guard as their primary opponent in 8th edition. But again, not all of us have jumped the Primaris wagon, and of all the stuff I decided to buy, I chose Reivers and Inceptors first which are not exactly ideal for Death Guard although not completely useless either.

 

 

In general certain armies will be harder to play until their codex drops. Stratagems are pretty important to armies now (Imp Guard are the exception right now). So we are fighting a tougher fight until the dex drops or until we get something via Chapter Approved. It's just part of the process for NewHammer 40k. Luckily releases have been rapid.

 

Death Guard look like a really strong release. And Mortarion looks incredible. The increase in the opportunities to cause mortal wounds is harsher on elite power armor armies like us. I will hold judgement until the codex is dropped and we know point costs.

 

I don't think Wolf Scout snipers are efficient enough to take out their characters. They're pretty resilient and will still get to FnP against our mortal wounds. These aren't 3 wound Commisars. These are hulking resilient Death Guard. If anything Marine Scouts or Ratlings are the way to go but still probably not up to the task. Behind Enemy Lines is not good deployment for snipers (not very good for any scout build IMO... and they're elities.. agghhhh I digressed).

 

I think our best chance is to shoot them to pieces before they get close. If you get engaged with Suppurating Plate character don't engage him with units that don't have -AP. Hammers and Swords all day. And remember you are probably only facing one or two relics unless the enemy really invests CP.

 

Thanks Wolf Guard Dan, for reminding me that getting the relics will cost them CP, and therefore lessen the amount of mortal wounds can unleash. Nevertheless, I see a lot of ways to "farm CPs", either by having a few battlations with just pox walkers, or spamming elites or Heavy support via Vanguard and Spearhead detachments.

 

Nevertheless, I think its unlikely to see more than 1 relic on the table.

 

So I think the most reliable solution is one which isn't really Vlka Fenryka modus operandi but it looks like we have to change tactics if we want to not only survive, but utterly banish the servants of the plague god: a very heavy gun line with multi wound weapons. Every thing else in the list will have the job of slowing down or distracting the Death Guard.

 

Let's hope we don't see a "FAST" Death Guard unit..... oh wait, the Blight Drones. At least their far more vulnerable to heavy weapons. I think they will also be primary target for our alpha strikes.


"The 6th Legion has a reputation." said Bear.
"All the Legions Astartes have reputations," replied Hawser.
"Not like ours," said Ogvai "We are known for our ferocity. We are thought to be feral and undisciplined. Even brother Legions consider us to be wild and bestial."
"And you're not ?" asked Hawser.
"If we need to be," said Ogvai. "but if that was our natural state, we'd all be dead by now."
He leaned down towards Hawser like a parent addressing a child.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous" he said.

 

Excerpt from "Prospero Burns" by Dan Abnett


#10
Caldersson

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I agree Wolf Scouts aren't the best option, they will need support of heavy weapons. They are cheap though and can plink away while you clear swathes of poxwalkers to get to them.

 

I don't think Wulfen are the answer, they will just get tarpitted and die out to mortal wounds.

 

 

I think the key is a combination of multi-wound Long fangs, Scout Snipers, Bjorn & Plasma Dreads, Njal/Rune Priest to defend against their psykers, and maybe stormfangs to unleash helfrost on them and a decent sized area of damage. Maybe some combi/Shield WG to hold off the drones. The melee method we SW's are accustomed to may not work this time.


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#11
Kasper_Hawser

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I agree Wolf Scouts aren't the best option, they will need support of heavy weapons. They are cheap though and can plink away while you clear swathes of poxwalkers to get to them.

 

I don't think Wulfen are the answer, they will just get tarpitted and die out to mortal wounds.

 

 

I think the key is a combination of multi-wound Long fangs, Scout Snipers, Bjorn & Plasma Dreads, Njal/Rune Priest to defend against their psykers, and maybe stormfangs to unleash helfrost on them and a decent sized area of damage. Maybe some combi/Shield WG to hold off the drones. The melee method we SW's are accustomed to may not work this time.

 

That's why I needed more ideas other than just rush forward and play super aggressively. However, being a patient hunter might not work either as their slow inexorable advance will work against us unless we focus all our firepower unto one target instead.

 

One alternative to the long fang gunline is a Razorback line, but that's only good against pox walkers. Against what will likely be the Death Shroud or even the regular plague marines, we need multiwound stuff to multiply their Disgustng Resilience saves, having more chance for them to fail. Still, with a Wolf Lord and Battle leader nearby, 3 razorbacks with TW AC should be able to obliterate at least one blob a turn.


"The 6th Legion has a reputation." said Bear.
"All the Legions Astartes have reputations," replied Hawser.
"Not like ours," said Ogvai "We are known for our ferocity. We are thought to be feral and undisciplined. Even brother Legions consider us to be wild and bestial."
"And you're not ?" asked Hawser.
"If we need to be," said Ogvai. "but if that was our natural state, we'd all be dead by now."
He leaned down towards Hawser like a parent addressing a child.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous" he said.

 

Excerpt from "Prospero Burns" by Dan Abnett


#12
Karhedronuk

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So I think the most reliable solution is one which isn't really Vlka Fenryka modus operandi but it looks like we have to change tactics if we want to not only survive, but utterly banish the servants of the plague god: a very heavy gun line with multi wound weapons. Every thing else in the list will have the job of slowing down or distracting the Death Guard.

 

To be fair, I never bought into the TWC and Wulfen bandwagon. My Wolves stayed with their older style list with plenty of infantry backed up by tanks and transports. With the demise of deathstars and the ability to withdraw from combat in 8th, my vintage army has been doing very well with just a couple of new toys.

 

Shooty elements maneuver or hold their ground as required whilst whittling down the enemy. Once the enemy closes, the assault elements charge and do their thing. Grey Hunters are good in this edition as they can fulfill both roles decently well, they never feel like a Troop tax. DG need to close to do damage but are not a particularly fast army so that gives us opportunities.

 

8th edition requires us to be patient hunters, fortunately we have the tools for the job.


Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.


#13
Kasper_Hawser

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So I think the most reliable solution is one which isn't really Vlka Fenryka modus operandi but it looks like we have to change tactics if we want to not only survive, but utterly banish the servants of the plague god: a very heavy gun line with multi wound weapons. Every thing else in the list will have the job of slowing down or distracting the Death Guard.

 

To be fair, I never bought into the TWC and Wulfen bandwagon. My Wolves stayed with their older style list with plenty of infantry backed up by tanks and transports. With the demise of deathstars and the ability to withdraw from combat in 8th, my vintage army has been doing very well with just a couple of new toys.

 

Shooty elements maneuver or hold their ground as required whilst whittling down the enemy. Once the enemy closes, the assault elements charge and do their thing. Grey Hunters are good in this edition as they can fulfill both roles decently well, they never feel like a Troop tax. DG need to close to do damage but are not a particularly fast army so that gives us opportunities.

 

8th edition requires us to be patient hunters, fortunately we have the tools for the job.

 

 

Hope you are right on this. Will know soon enough, well, maybe next weekend as this weekend no time to play. The CSM players will need time to digest the codex anyway, (if such a thing is possible with Nurgle themed stuff. :P) , we wolves will have to patiently identify their weaknesses and avoid their strengths.

 

right now the biggest mystery is not Mortarion,but those strange tanks which look like cross between Vindicator and Predators. I'm hoping its AP is not too good but compensates with either high strength or multi damage.


"The 6th Legion has a reputation." said Bear.
"All the Legions Astartes have reputations," replied Hawser.
"Not like ours," said Ogvai "We are known for our ferocity. We are thought to be feral and undisciplined. Even brother Legions consider us to be wild and bestial."
"And you're not ?" asked Hawser.
"If we need to be," said Ogvai. "but if that was our natural state, we'd all be dead by now."
He leaned down towards Hawser like a parent addressing a child.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous" he said.

 

Excerpt from "Prospero Burns" by Dan Abnett


#14
Karhedronuk

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The good news is that most DG stuff seems fairly short ranged which means they will have to come to us. That gives us a good chance to thin the shambling hordes somewhat. The downside is that digging them out of cover when they dig near objectives is going to a be a PITA. Even our own Mortal Wound generators are less effective then normal in the face of DR.


Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.


#15
Bulwyf

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I love my Wulfen and TWC. I just don't see how an assault list (with any army not just SW) is going to beat a DG army. I will at least attempt some version of it against them. I have the benefit of having both armies so if nothing else I could experiment at home to see how it goes.


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#16
Karhedronuk

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I think the only assault armies that could challenge DG are ones that are very powerful and totally focused. World Eaters might pull it off with multiple units of Berserkers. Even against targets as tough as DG, attacking multiple times in a single combat phase with a blender unit like Berskers is going to force a fair bit of damage through. Also, multiple units of Berserkers are less vulnerable to Mortal Wounds than many of the more elite options (who tend to be tougher but have less wounds overall).

None of which helps SW massively. TWC and Wulfen hit hard but I am not sure they hit hard enough to force through the levels of damage necessary to drag down DG. Plus our reliance on Storm Shields counts for zip against Mortal Wounds and the units are pretty expensive to boot. I think TWC and Wulfen could work as counter-charge units. Rather than advancing them aggressively, hold them back and shoot while you can. Once the weakened DG get close, unleash the TWC and Wulfen as they should have sufficient punch on the charge to finish off units.

Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.


#17
Triszin

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I've been toying with the idea of having as much helfrost as possible.

 

2-3 helfrost dreads, HQ's all iron priests with helfrost, stormwulf and wulfen all kited with SS/TH.

 

have some initial ablative (geryhunters/wulfen) to delay them slightly and just batter them with as much helfrost as possible


Edited by Triszin, 07 September 2017 - 01:12 PM.

banana


#18
Wulfgar76

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Playing assault versus DG will require a solid positioning game on our part. I imagine DG will have pox walkers to tarp it and protect the quality units and rely on auras to inflict mortal wounds. I think you can mitigate some of that by using superior mobility to attack those blobs from an angle to minimize the models in contact and aura impact. There are some tricks that can be used in the assault phase. There was an article about it floating around on the competitive 40k FB page. I'll see if I can find a link.

http://ftgtgaming.bl...-moves.html?m=1

Edited by Wulfgar76, 07 September 2017 - 01:37 PM.

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#19
Karhedronuk

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I've been toying with the idea of having as much helfrost as possible.


Hmm, I am not sure that Helfrost cuts the mustard (at least in its current incarnation). A 1-in-6 chance to cause a Mortal Wound on a wounded-but-not-slain model is not particularly powerful. It is even less powerful against DG as Disgustingly Resilient can still be used to protect against those wounds.

I think spamming plasma is more efficient as we have more models that can take it. Also the 2D when overcharging means that even single-wound models have to make 2 DR saves to avoid dying.
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Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.


#20
Triszin

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New deathgaurd tactics are up...

 

ya, no penalty on helbrutes/infantry for advanced and firing heavy or any weapon. if its rapid fire or assault it gets to shoot twice.....

 

 

only thing I can think of to deal with them is to kill the characters and elites that give aurad bonuses but then im still scratching my head


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banana


#21
the jeske

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you should remember that more then a few DG army are going to run termintors, so not all DG is going to be slow.


"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


#22
Garreck

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Triszin, it's worded clumsily but it's not assault weapons and rapid fire get to shoot twice. It's just extending rapid fire range to 18" vice half the rapid fire weapon's range.
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#23
Triszin

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Triszin, it's worded clumsily but it's not assault weapons and rapid fire get to shoot twice. It's just extending rapid fire range to 18" vice half the rapid fire weapon's range.

ahh, I hope that gets errated quick. things should and need to be clear, no room for interpretation


banana


#24
Caldersson

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I read it how Garreck said. 18" Rapid Fire range, heavy weapons can move with no penalty, assault weapons can move+assault with no penalty.

 

This means that DG seem to be master of mid-range, and while not great at melee will cause sever Mortal Wounds by merely being near them. So we must play the long-range game, not the wolves greatest strength but something we can adapt to. Egil Ironwolf would have been a great Wolf Lord for this (new/evolved) enemy, may his spirit rest.

 

Another thing is that it seems DG lack Air support, something our Stormfangs seem great at. Knock down those drones and let the Stormfangs wreck havoc from afar. 

 

 

edit: I should explain why I keep stating Wolf Scouts. Its not for direct counter to the DG, but that they can hurt characters. This will draw fire away from expensive Long Fangs/Stormfangs/vehicles and toward the Wolf Scouts which are cheaper. Having a 2+ (not including any bonuses from cover) with their camo cloak and snipers is cheaper than a Long Fang with Plasma, plus they are rather resilient. The enemy can't ignore the Wolf Scouts as they will strip away wounds slowly, so they must allocate resources to kill them drawing the attention away from more expensive units.


Edited by Caldersson, 07 September 2017 - 11:45 PM.

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Kasper_Hawser

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Playing assault versus DG will require a solid positioning game on our part. I imagine DG will have pox walkers to tarp it and protect the quality units and rely on auras to inflict mortal wounds. I think you can mitigate some of that by using superior mobility to attack those blobs from an angle to minimize the models in contact and aura impact. There are some tricks that can be used in the assault phase. There was an article about it floating around on the competitive 40k FB page. I'll see if I can find a link.

http://ftgtgaming.bl...-moves.html?m=1

 

thanks Wulfgar, will be studying this article to get some refinement of tactics. At the moment, I just blindly move when assaulting, my only concern being in BTB with enemy units.

 

I read it how Garreck said. 18" Rapid Fire range, heavy weapons can move with no penalty, assault weapons can move+assault with no penalty.

 

This means that DG seem to be master of mid-range, and while not great at melee will cause sever Mortal Wounds by merely being near them. So we must play the long-range game, not the wolves greatest strength but something we can adapt to. Egil Ironwolf would have been a great Wolf Lord for this (new/evolved) enemy, may his spirit rest.

 

Another thing is that it seems DG lack Air support, something our Stormfangs seem great at. Knock down those drones and let the Stormfangs wreck havoc from afar. 

 

 

edit: I should explain why I keep stating Wolf Scouts. Its not for direct counter to the DG, but that they can hurt characters. This will draw fire away from expensive Long Fangs/Stormfangs/vehicles and toward the Wolf Scouts which are cheaper. Having a 2+ (not including any bonuses from cover) with their camo cloak and snipers is cheaper than a Long Fang with Plasma, plus they are rather resilient. The enemy can't ignore the Wolf Scouts as they will strip away wounds slowly, so they must allocate resources to kill them drawing the attention away from more expensive units.

 

I appreciate you mentioning Wolf Scouts and I think you are right that we should at least consider the option of one or two sniping units. However, I'm going to take your suggestion of using scouts slightly differently. Instead of using Sniper rifles, I'm going to load the Wolf Scouts to the teeth with plasma (a unit of 5 seem to be able to take 2 plasma pistols, 1 plasma gun, and a combi plasma if you take a Wolf Guard pack leader and only come up to a little more than 100 points) and see if I can catch the character behind enemy lines. And even if he is smart enough to keep this characters wrapped in bodies, I should at least be able damage his new DG tanks. 

 

http://www.belloflos...hic-powers.html

 

Oh joy, more goodies for the Death Guard. Increased range on rapid fire weapons and no hit penalties on both assault and heavy weapons whatsoever. Sigh, and I thought Space Wolves were supposed to be THE mid range army, but strangely enough, this is very much Death Guard Legion before their corruption, being able to tote lots of heavy and special weapons on the their infantry yet not suffering for it. The Death Guard WERE the premium foot soldier army after all. Ironic that their Primarch now has wings and won't be "marching" with his sons anymore.

 

Sigh, and now with a psychic spell, even their damn poxwalkers will be able to wound marines on 3+ AND inflict mortal wounds on 6s.

 

AND on top of that, we've yet another psychic spell, their toughness and strength gets boosted by 1. Can anyone say 20 + T5 Poxwalkers? (Typhus makes then T4, add the spell and they get T5 AND S5.

 

Somehow, I think even the Khornate heretics will be seething. The higher Toughness I can understand, this is the Death Guard we're talking about. But did they HAVE to get a higher strength and improved wounding chances?

 

In case your wondering, both spells cost very cheap of 5 and 6 respectively.

 

OK, my despair returns. GW, despite being far more customer receptive in past year, STILL don't know how to use the breaks when it comes to the crush train. At least until our codex comes in. Until then..... ALL LONG FANGS, VINDICATOR, LAND SPEEDER TYPHOONS, GET OUT OF THE BOX AND DUST YOURSELF OUT!

 

Can somebody push some damn perspective in me, because right now I'm back to calling the DG the new level of cheese not seen since 7th edition Eldar came out.


"The 6th Legion has a reputation." said Bear.
"All the Legions Astartes have reputations," replied Hawser.
"Not like ours," said Ogvai "We are known for our ferocity. We are thought to be feral and undisciplined. Even brother Legions consider us to be wild and bestial."
"And you're not ?" asked Hawser.
"If we need to be," said Ogvai. "but if that was our natural state, we'd all be dead by now."
He leaned down towards Hawser like a parent addressing a child.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous" he said.

 

Excerpt from "Prospero Burns" by Dan Abnett





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