Where do Space Wolf recruit from now?

[Jochteas]

So I was reading up on current changes in the lore since things are actually happening now in WH40k and after the Siege of Fenris I'm left wondering were do they even recruit from? Last I read the Grey Knights have killed all the human survivors on Fenris, and the Space Wolves didn't exactly diversify their chapter recruitment process. Of the hip it looks like the Space Wolves are sol and on borrowed Wolf Time.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The Grey Knights did NOT kill all the humans on Fenris, only those who witnessed Daemons manifesting on the planet. There should be many survivors for the Wolves to recruit from, and Primaris Marine gene-seed has a lower rate of rejection, meaning more recruits will survive the process of becoming Primaris Space Wolves.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Where did you read that? While I don;t have WoM for a first hand quote, the consensus when it dropped was that a chunk of Fenris' population got Inquisitioned (which is a different massive problem, granted), not the entire thing. The only places I've seen 'there's no more recruits for the Wolves, the Chapter's stuffed' is from Chinese whispers or hardline Wolf haters. There's no reason the Wolves shouldn't be fine, especially as the hundred year time jump is long enough for a great many of the Fenris/Cadia loses to be made good.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Where did you read that? While I don;t have WoM for a first hand quote, the consensus when it dropped was that a chunk of Fenris' population got Inquisitioned (which is a different massive problem, granted), not the entire thing. The only places I've seen 'there's no more recruits for the Wolves, the Chapter's stuffed' is from Chinese whispers or hardline Wolf haters. There's no reason the Wolves shouldn't be fine, especially as the hundred year time jump is long enough for a great many of the Fenris/Cadia loses to be made good.

 IIRC it was asked during a meeting with the writers and they said that yes there was chunk of population removed from Fenris it was nothing they shouldn't recover from. Most Fenrisians live in caves and such and were hidden during the invasion. Also good luck to the inquisition finding  majority of Fenrisians who are already difficult to find to begin with.

[Triszin]

Wolves recruitment is fine. Mainly due to the nomadic lifestyles fenris requires to survive. Very few tribes live on land while most tribes are sea faring. And since the only tea land mass on fenris is where the fang is located, which isn't huge yo begin with, means that the fenrisian human population might of only taken a 15-30% hit. Leaving up-85% oc the population alive

[NightHowler]

"The rumor's of Fenris' death have been greatly exaggerated."  - Torgen Runmark, High Priest of Wolves for the Night Howler's Great Company

[Wolf Guard Dan]

In the 100 or so years since Warzone Fenris I think the population of Fenris would have had plenty of time to bounce back to "normal" numbers. 100+ years is 5 generations of producing offspring. And with less population fighting over resources there is less impediments to growing. Lexicanum has our population at 3.4 million prior to Warzone Fenris. We are probably back to that number if that is our population cap.

 

I think we're okay. The big thing to take from that is that Logan allowed the Inquisition and Grey Knights access to Fenris's population to "process."

[Jarl Caldersson]

Another thing, Fenris used to support a full Legion tens of thousands strong. We are merely a couple thousand strong now, which means even if Fenris population was halfed it would still support our small force.

[Kasper_Hawser]

So I was reading up on current changes in the lore since things are actually happening now in WH40k and after the Siege of Fenris I'm left wondering were do they even recruit from? Last I read the Grey Knights have killed all the human survivors on Fenris, and the Space Wolves didn't exactly diversify their chapter recruitment process. Of the hip it looks like the Space Wolves are sol and on borrowed Wolf Time.

 

I should be angry at you listening and somehow wrongly interpreting that the Fenrisian population is totally gone. I've read the Wrath of Magnus books a few times, including the last few sad pages detailing the aftermath and utter MAULING the Wolves received, not to mention their "allies". But it'll be pointless, so I'll just reiterate that the Fenrisian population was NOT COMPLETELY ANNIHILATED. Just a sizeable chunk was taken by the Inquisition. How big that "chunk" is up to debate, could mean anything from as low as 10% all the way to 70%. I'm actually leaning towards greater than 50% just to be on the conservative grimdark side. So yes, the Space Wolves still have a population to recruit from Fenris.

 

The real danger is, as usual, the instability of the Space Wolves geneseed, recently made worse by the return of the Wulfen. They'll have to recruit hard and fast to recover their losses but they can't even if Fenris still had its original population. And as of Fall of Cadia, two Great Companies have fallen as well with no known survivors.

 

The best and fastest way the Wolves can replenish itself short of NOT fighting and spending all their time on recruitment (fat luck of that happening, if the Crimson Fists can still fight after losing half their chapter to a stray missile, the Wolves most certainly won't sequester themselves just to replenish numbers) is Cawl's magic Primaris marines.  As mentioned by Bulwuf or Calderson, there IS a Primaris Successor chapter for the Wolves called Wolfspear (oh the irony, if the Ragnar Blackmane novels are true about what Russ feels about spears)

 

However, these Primaris Space Wolves are a chapter in its own right now, equal to the Space Wolves in command structure. I don't know if they will send their marines to be fully incorporated into the original Wolves and even if they do, what are the Space wolves current feeling about the Primaris? I haven't read Dark Imperium but apparently there is a Primaris character who is decended from Fenris. No idea what is the reaction of the Space Wolves yet.

 

My personal opinion? Wolves accept honor from any side except Chaos, so as long as the Primaris fight with honor from Wolves perspectivve, they'll probably accept them as battle brothers. Whether they accept them as true Wolves befitting Russ legacy is an entirely different matter

 

Remember the old Space Marine saying common to ALL chapters.

 

 

He who sheds his blood with me shall be my battle brother eternal.

[Jarl Caldersson]

It's been 200 or so years, for all we know Grimnar, Ulrik and a few other Wolf Lords are dead. The non-codex chapters have been abandoned in the dark for right now, except the BA  whom have some idea of their tragedy to occur. I feel as though GW is breaking all the non-codex chapter knee-caps to make them accept the Primaris.

 

 

 

However, these Primaris Space Wolves are a chapter in its own right now, equal to the Space Wolves in command structure. I don't know if they will send their marines to be fully incorporated into the original Wolves and even if they do, what are the Space wolves current feeling about the Primaris? I haven't read Dark Imperium but apparently there is a Primaris character who is decended from Fenris. No idea what is the reaction of the Space Wolves yet.

 

 

We don't know how the SW's feel about the Wolfspear. The only thing we know is that the lone Primaris SW in the Dark Imperium book is rather bitter and angry that Guilliman commanded that he could not return to Fenris with his brothers. This individual also fought within the unmarked sons, which means he may have never seen a SW and they never seen him. So Logan Grimnar could be completely oblivious that there are Primaris SW's, and I doubt he would leave a brother behind even on a Primarchs orders. I believe he also made the remark to the UM that gave the order "Your Primarch is not my Primarch." which may give hint that Russ is not (and in the past has not) agreeing to splitting his sons apart.

 

 

So in short: We have no idea, GW has given us nothing about the Wolfspear. We do know GW was stating that they were listening to feedback about the primaris from all the chapters. I feel the general consensus among the SW is of displeasure with the Primaris. Whether that means GW will change things or not will be seen in the future.

[Karhedron]

Some Primaris Marines were sent to reinforce existing Chapters while others were formed into new Chapters as needed (ala Wolfspear). Old Man Logan could easily have been sent several hundred Primaris marines bearing the geneseed of Russ while still leaving enough to found the Wolfspear chapter (and probably a few others besides).

 

How will the Wolves react to the Primaris marines? My guess is cautiously at first but probably they will accept them. Remember that the Wolves themselves tried previously to cure the curse of the Wulfen and would have succeeded but for Magnus. Now they have been offered a solution to the problem that has bedeviled them since their founding. Provided the Primaris marines fight with honour and are willing to "fit in", all should be well. I can imagine that there could be friction if some of the new arrivals tried to enforce the Codex but Primaris marines don't follow the codex anyway and Guilliman seems to have decided it is past its sell-by date anyway so I don't see that being an issue.

 

If I understand correctly, the Primaris SW recruits were taken from Fenris anyway so should not have too much trouble fitting in. If the Wolves can accept the returned Wulfen, the Primaris Marines should be like long-lost brothers in comparison.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Some Primaris Marines were sent to reinforce existing Chapters while others were formed into new Chapters as needed (ala Wolfspear). Old Man Logan could easily have been sent several hundred Primaris marines bearing the geneseed of Russ while still leaving enough to found the Wolfspear chapter (and probably a few others besides).

This is all speculated as it hasnt been confirmed anywhere. I imagine you are right.

 

Remember that the Wolves themselves tried previously to cure the curse of the Wulfen and would have succeeded but for Magnus. Now they have been offered a solution to the problem that has bedeviled them since their founding.

Aye a Wolf Priest tried to "cure" the canis Helix before. Once Bjorn found out he straight smashed that project in one of the few times we have seem him angry. I doubt we are all happy and jolly. Also Cawl only stabilized the geneseed never curing the canis helix. This could be as simple as the SW having the same geneseed as 30k marines (with wulfen still) to leaving the canis helix alone and no wulfen.

 

I can imagine that there could be friction if some of the new arrivals tried to enforce the Codex but Primaris marines don't follow the codex anyway and Guilliman seems to have decided it is past its sell-by date anyway so I don't see that being an issue.

This is wrong, sorry. The unnumbered sons didnt follow the codex and were disbanded before the end of Dark Imperium. All Primaris have been shaped to the codex since then. Furthermore. Guilliman was in the process of rewriting the codex not abandoning it. This is kinda the lead into the SM codex 8th ed. as it dictates how the primaris are to fit in and their weapon options aka codex 2.0.

 

If I understand correctly, the Primaris SW recruits were taken from Fenris anyway so should not have too much trouble fitting in.

This is correct. The Primaris that Cawl made are from Fenris. This leads to the issue "where do the wolfspear recruit from?" IIRC the planet they are on is a desert-like habititual planet very unlike Fenris.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Caldersson

[Grimtooth]

 

Some Primaris Marines were sent to reinforce existing Chapters while others were formed into new Chapters as needed (ala Wolfspear). Old Man Logan could easily have been sent several hundred Primaris marines bearing the geneseed of Russ while still leaving enough to found the Wolfspear chapter (and probably a few others besides).

This is all speculated as it hasnt been confirmed anywhere. I imagine you are right.

 

Remember that the Wolves themselves tried previously to cure the curse of the Wulfen and would have succeeded but for Magnus. Now they have been offered a solution to the problem that has bedeviled them since their founding.

Aye a Wolf Priest tried to "cure" the canis Helix before. Once Bjorn found out he straight smashed that project in one of the few times we have seem him angry. I doubt we are all happy and jolly. Also Cawl only stabilized the geneseed never curing the canis helix. This could be as simple as the SW having the same geneseed as 30k marines (with wulfen still) to leaving the canis helix alone and no wulfen.

 

I can imagine that there could be friction if some of the new arrivals tried to enforce the Codex but Primaris marines don't follow the codex anyway and Guilliman seems to have decided it is past its sell-by date anyway so I don't see that being an issue.

This is wrong, sorry. The unnumbered sons didnt follow the codex and were disbanded before the end of Dark Imperium. All Primaris have been shaped to the codex since then. Furthermore. Guilliman was in the process of rewriting the codex not abandoning it. This is kinda the lead into the SM codex 8th ed. as it dictates how the primaris are to fit in and their weapon options aka codex 2.0.

 

If I understand correctly, the Primaris SW recruits were taken from Fenris anyway so should not have too much trouble fitting in.

This is correct. The Primaris that Cawl made are from Fenris. This leads to the issue "where do the wolfspear recruit from?" IIRC the planet they are on is a desert-like habititual planet very unlike Fenris.

 

Bjorn did NOT smash the Tempering, Magnus did that in Battle of the Fang.  Bjorn did say that had he known about it, he would have destroyed it because it was not as Russ intended.

 

As far as we know, the Wolfspear is not a creation of Logan in the slightest and is instead of RG's creation which means whatever command structure they happen to be is of RG's design and not that of Logan's or even Russ'.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Brother Ramses is right, damn straight.

 

Seriously Calderson that remark about Bjorn smashing the attempt to improve the Canis Helix is outright WRONG. It's bad enough that those who don't read Space Wolves fluff get their facts wrong without even reading the books, but even more embarassing when those who HAVE read the novels, Curse of the Wulfen and Wrath of Magnus wrongly state the story points. Sorry if I come across as a dick, but ... well, let's leave it at that. It is as Brother Ramses said, not what you said. If I was allowed to, I would paste a picture of that particular page on the post. 

 

To wrap up the thread before anyone else gets their facts wrong, Fenris is still populated, and the Wolves still recruit from it. I will refrain from saying anything about the Wolfspear as I have NOT read Dark Imperium.

 

Actually we can all blame GW for their shoddy attempt to shoehorn the Primaris marines into the setting without tying up the basic fluff loose ends like how the current Astartes would take them. So let's stop arguing and shake our fingers at GW instead.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Kasper_Hawser

[Jarl Caldersson]

Brother Ramses is right, damn straight.

 

Seriously Calderson that remark about Bjorn smashing the attempt to improve the Canis Helix is outright WRONG. It's bad enough that those who don't read Space Wolves fluff get their facts wrong without even reading the books, but even more embarassing when those who HAVE read the novels, Curse of the Wulfen and Wrath of Magnus wrongly state the story points. Sorry if I come across as a dick, but ... well, let's leave it at that. It is as Brother Ramses said, not what you said. If I was allowed to, I would paste a picture of that particular page on the post. 

 

To wrap up the thread before anyone else gets their facts wrong, Fenris is still populated, and the Wolves still recruit from it. I will refrain from saying anything about the Wolfspear as I have NOT read Dark Imperium.

 

Actually we can all blame GW for their shoddy attempt to shoehorn the Primaris marines into the setting without tying up the basic fluff loose ends like how the current Astartes would take them. So let's stop arguing and shake our fingers at GW instead.

 

 

I never said he smashed the the canis helix, just he lost his temper when he found out about it. I also never said Logan had any hand in the Primaris, and even stated for all we know Logan never meet a Primaris.

 

 

I can point out every point in Dark Imperium and the page number for my facts, because I already did on the forums. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334469-imperium-of-darkness-sw-and-primaris-fluff/?hl=%20dark%20%20imperium

 

I wrote my message at 0100 when I was rather tired, and I am also tired of the Dark Imperium book being constantly talked about with wrong facts. The constant ones being "Primaris don't follow codex" and "SW's have already accepted the Primaris." both of these need to die ASAP. One is completely wrong and the other is unknown. I know I have posted the topic and explained in detail, and I know other have done so too.

 

 

I will say all this stuff is simply a way for GW to shove Primaris down our throats and force us to accept them.

 

edit: now that I have had some for the first time in 24 hours, a cold bath and a even colder bitter alcohol. I can see where my wording did say "bjorn stopped the project, instead of "Bjorn stopped any future project". For that I apologize for any misdirection. I am still going to be angry about the rest of the stuff.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Caldersson

[Karhedron]

 

Some Primaris Marines were sent to reinforce existing Chapters while others were formed into new Chapters as needed (ala Wolfspear). Old Man Logan could easily have been sent several hundred Primaris marines bearing the geneseed of Russ while still leaving enough to found the Wolfspear chapter (and probably a few others besides).

This is all speculated as it hasnt been confirmed anywhere. I imagine you are right.

 

While it hasn't been confirmed as happening for the Space Wolves, we know that Primaris detachments were definitely assigned to join under-strength Chapters encountered during the course of the Indomitus Crusade.

 

Those Primaris Space Marines that were separated from the Unnumbered Sons, were usually assigned by companies, squadrons and even smaller numbers, to understrengthed Chapters encountered by the Indomitus Crusade.

While the Wolves are no specifically mentioned, that fact we can include Primaris units confirms it must have happened "off-camera". I am sure the events and their consequences will be covered once our new codex arrives.

[Jarl Caldersson]

 

 

Some Primaris Marines were sent to reinforce existing Chapters while others were formed into new Chapters as needed (ala Wolfspear). Old Man Logan could easily have been sent several hundred Primaris marines bearing the geneseed of Russ while still leaving enough to found the Wolfspear chapter (and probably a few others besides).

This is all speculated as it hasnt been confirmed anywhere. I imagine you are right.

 

While it hasn't been confirmed as happening for the Space Wolves, we know that Primaris detachments were definitely assigned to join under-strength Chapters encountered during the course of the Indomitus Crusade.

 

Those Primaris Space Marines that were separated from the Unnumbered Sons, were usually assigned by companies, squadrons and even smaller numbers, to understrengthed Chapters encountered by the Indomitus Crusade.

While the Wolves are no specifically mentioned, that fact we can include Primaris units confirms it must have happened "off-camera". I am sure the events and their consequences will be covered once our new codex arrives.

 

 

There is a rumored book between february and april for the SW's, I am going to guess that is when we get our codex. This book will hopefully explain some of the events that happened behind the scenes. IIRC, and I could be wrong, but i thought the new codex were less fluff more stuff. So we may not get that much info from the codex and more from the books.

[Karhedron]

There is a rumored book between february and april for the SW's, I am going to guess that is when we get our codex. This book will hopefully explain some of the events that happened behind the scenes. IIRC, and I could be wrong, but i thought the new codex were less fluff more stuff. So we may not get that much info from the codex and more from the books.

Interesting. I have heard a rumour that Leman Russ will be the next loyalist Primarch released (large pinch of salt obviously). A Spring 2018 SW release would be roughly 12 months after RG was released which would fit with GW's apparent pattern of 1 Traitor Primarch each autumn and 1 loyalist each spring.

 

I may be taking too big a leap here but wouldn't it be cool if Russ himself was the showpiece release to accompany our new codex?

 

I can but dream.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

There is a rumored book between february and april for the SW's, I am going to guess that is when we get our codex. This book will hopefully explain some of the events that happened behind the scenes. IIRC, and I could be wrong, but i thought the new codex were less fluff more stuff. So we may not get that much info from the codex and more from the books.

Interesting. I have heard a rumour that Leman Russ will be the next loyalist Primarch released (large pinch of salt obviously). A Spring 2018 SW release would be roughly 12 months after RG was released which would fit with GW's apparent pattern of 1 Traitor Primarch each autumn and 1 loyalist each spring.

 

I may be taking too big a leap here but wouldn't it be cool if Russ himself was the showpiece release to accompany our new codex?

 

I can but dream.

 

 

Frankly I don't want Russ to return anytime soon. With our luck, GW will make him into a giant furry instead of a giant viking.

 

I'm actually more for Lion to finally stop snoozing or playing 40K in his room and get out of the Rock. He's certainly politically savvy and intelligent enough to combat Guilliman's nerdiness. And if the Imperium gets further screwed up, we can blame Papa Smurf and Grand daddy Emo Knight rather than our own primarch.

 

sadly it'll be a battle of who is the bigger dick between those two. From what I hear, Guilliman is being almost as heartless and emotionless as the Emperor now rather than the charismatic but flawed primarch that everyone even non ultras respect.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Kasper_Hawser

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Not to be a smart aleck, but you hear wrong. Guilliman is a lot of things, but certainly not heartless or emotionless.

 

If anything, he may be MORE emotional than his 30k presentation so far

[the jeske]

how did they survive the long winters, since cadia blowing up? Long winters get harsher the more unstable fenris gets, and fenris gets more unstable by galaxy wide gravity shifts. With the scare poping up in the middle of the imperial space, the gravitational pulls should be so strong that at best there should be no safe sesons and at worse the land outside of mainland fenris should be totaly impossible for people to live on.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

The majority of the native Fenrisians likely wont survive. 

 

The survivors will be ripe for replenishing the Chapter's strength. 

 

As Fenris once supported a Legion, I dont see this as a massive loss. 

[shandwen]

Wow. I never realized how bad the fluff was on SW recruitment. 3.5 million people is not enough to recruit from, especially when you consider the distance, the failure rates, and the extremely small percentage that would make viable candidates anyways. Also, in such a small population the constant extraction of the most viable people from the breeding population would nullify any chance of recruitment within a few generations.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Wow. I never realized how bad the fluff was on SW recruitment. 3.5 million people is not enough to recruit from, especially when you consider the distance, the failure rates, and the extremely small percentage that would make viable candidates anyways. Also, in such a small population the constant extraction of the most viable people from the breeding population would nullify any chance of recruitment within a few generations.

 

Well math or logistics have never been a strong suit of GW's. 

[Jarl Caldersson]

Wow. I never realized how bad the fluff was on SW recruitment. 3.5 million people is not enough to recruit from, especially when you consider the distance, the failure rates, and the extremely small percentage that would make viable candidates anyways. Also, in such a small population the constant extraction of the most viable people from the breeding population would nullify any chance of recruitment within a few generations.

 

Fenris has a much higher recruitment rate than other chapters. IIRC in "Leman Russ" the blood claw was recruited with 14 other and of that 15 man group 12 made it. Not 100% sure but it was a rather large amount compared to the other chapters 500 to get 50 (like in Dante novel).