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Is there a place for drop pods in our armies with SFTS?

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#1
thewarriorhunter

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I've been mulling this topic around in my head for the past week or so. In 7th a pod could be a great way to get units where you needed them, now it's even better since there is no deviation. The drawback to that is your unit inside can't move after it's disembarked (obviously this is situational).

 

With SFTS we can now put a unit anywhere we want before the first turn and they can still move/advance/charge. If you want that first turn charge SFTS is a pretty good way to make sure you get it. We're essentially exchanging a single command point for 95 points or 5 PL. That's easily translated into another unit that's mobile such as a razorback or land speeder storm.

 

The only argument I can see for taking a pod is to deny part of the board to your opponent by blocking off lanes of fire/travel. You could put it on an objective to secure it and in both situations the enemy has to spend time shooting at it or go around. That being said I feel like inserting a unit of infantry where you want them and having mobile transports rushing up behind them is a better option. I don't feel the pod has the firepower it really needs to be a fire base that is inserted into the battle.

 

I realize this discussion is highly situational, but it's been something I think about as I contemplate finishing my pod or focusing more on mobile solutions for my list. Personally I'm leaning towards no drop pods for now, at least not until I start playing much larger games.



#2
Damo1701

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The only time I see a drop pod approaching usefulness is if you have a Dreadnought, and you use the over-priced Forge World one. That's if you can't fit a Storm Raven in your list.
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#3
SanguinaryGuardsman

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Short Answer: No, never.

 

Long Answer: Hell no!, never ever!



#4
Gulltramarine

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I'm just not sure there's a place for drop pods full stop. Rhinos are cheaper and better (and slower admittedly) delivery systems. SftS really is really a thing you would use with first turn, but I would always be weary of a seize


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#5
thewarriorhunter

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I'm just not sure there's a place for drop pods full stop. Rhinos are cheaper and better (and slower admittedly) delivery systems. SftS really is really a thing you would use with first turn, but I would always be weary of a seize


Don't you know who is going first before you place sfts? It says you place at the beginning of the first battle round but before the first turn begins. I read that as you've already rolled for who goes first because that happens before the movement phase. Core rules state the beginning of a round to be movement.

Do I have things out of order?

#6
Damo1701

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I'm just not sure there's a place for drop pods full stop. Rhinos are cheaper and better (and slower admittedly) delivery systems. SftS really is really a thing you would use with first turn, but I would always be weary of a seize

Don't you know who is going first before you place sfts? It says you place at the beginning of the first battle round but before the first turn begins. I read that as you've already rolled for who goes first because that happens before the movement phase. Core rules state the beginning of a round to be movement.

Do I have things out of order?
Nope. You are correct.

SFtS can be used defensively as well as aggressively.

Such as placing devastator with the best fire lines if your opponent deploys them after you have deployed everything else.

Edited by Damo1701, 13 September 2017 - 01:29 PM.

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#7
9x19 Parabellum

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I think people are crazy overlooking drop pods right now.

 

Imagine a drop pod with 2 units of devastators in them, probably with "short range" heavy weapons (like Grav Cannons and multimeltas).

Bring them down where they can do most damage (probably behind enemy lines), and fire away to full effect.  Drop a JP Captain near them for rerolls.


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#8
Damo1701

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I think people are crazy overlooking drop pods right now.

Imagine a drop pod with 2 units of devastators in them, probably with "short range" heavy weapons (like Grav Cannons and multimeltas).
Bring them down where they can do most damage (probably behind enemy lines), and fire away to full effect. Drop a JP Captain near them for rerolls.


At nearly 100 points per pod, there are other, more economic ways for those squads, such as striking from the shadows.

Can't speak for everybody, but I usually find those command points extremely well spent. And there is no movement penalty.
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#9
thewarriorhunter

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Can't speak for everybody, but I usually find those command points extremely well spent. And there is no movement penalty.

 

 

I think that's the sticking point, at least for me.

 

For a command point/unit I can insert a squad where I want and they can either move or fire at full effect. That hundred points or PL now translates into an additional unit or transport that I can field. That unit is mobile and even if it's just a boring tac squad it will output more firepower than a single drop pod.



#10
9x19 Parabellum

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OK, never mind. I just rechecked. For some reason I thought SFTS was 3 command points.  Huh. Yeah that makes Drop Pods pretty meaningless for RG armies.

 

Move along, nothing to see here.


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#11
NiceGuyAdi

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Having painted one and got two built ready to paint at the end of 7th, I was really hoping for some inspiration, here.

Ah well, paperweight it is, for now.

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#12
9x19 Parabellum

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Having painted one and got two built ready to paint at the end of 7th, I was really hoping for some inspiration, here.

Ah well, paperweight it is, for now.

 

Send it to me. I'll paint a red saltire over the RG Chapter logo and use it for my death company :-)


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#13
Claws and Effect

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The saving grace of drop pods is you csn bring them in after Turn 1.

It's the only way you can deepstrike a Devastator squad. Or two.

#14
Damo1701

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The saving grace of drop pods is you csn bring them in after Turn 1.

It's the only way you can deepstrike a Devastator squad. Or two.


That's true, but, unless they are rocking heavy bolters, their shooting isn't going to be as effective due to the movement penalty. Imo, anyway.
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#15
thewarriorhunter

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Hanging on a to a pod with a dev squad till after turn one seems like it would really limit the point of a dev squad. You want as much firepower for as long as possible. If they miss a turn or two those are valuable wounds you're leaving on the table. They'll suffer the -1 hit their first turn on the board. Yes you can drop a captain with them for rerolls, but it seems to me that placing them well on turn one gets a lot more use out of a dev squad that holding them till turn 2/3 in a drop pod.

 

I guess one situation that could make sense is a unit of SG in a pod dropping into the enemies back lines... but that's assuming the enemy moves up enough to give you that opportunity, where again a well placed SFTS accomplishes that and more. SFTS limits you to 9 inches away from an enemy but says nothing about their deployment zone.



#16
Gulltramarine

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I think one of the main problems will be area denial. I, and many others I play with, have started effectively creating large bubbles with scouts to exploit the 9 inch rule meaning useful deep striking zones will be at a premium for the first 2 turns. They're okay, just not very cost effective or versatile

#17
defl0

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The only think they offer is delayed deployment. Which is great, but their is nothing in the SM codex that is hyper efficient coming out of drop pod. Plasma Sciosn are basically better in every way. 


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#18
Pentharian

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In the games I run with Space Marines, the combination of Scouts plus SftS, there's nowhere for you to put a Pod except your own deployment zone. Since I can accomplish that with just Scouts and a pair of SftS CP, there's no reason for me to run a Drop Pod, either. I can see Non Raven Guard Marines having an argument for it, but it's still weak and loses out to Razorbacks and Rhinoss.

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#19
9x19 Parabellum

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In case it wasn't clear, you guys convinced me about 12 posts ago.  (Assuming you guys are still responding to me & my very weak defense/argument for drop pods). I capitulate.  Makes no sense for RG to be using a drop pod.


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#20
Race Bannon

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Although I'm swayed a bit as well, there is a place for them in lists where the narrative game is in play.

 

Maybe that's obvious to many, but I still wanted to spend time typing on my keyboard about it at work ^_^


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#21
9x19 Parabellum

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Although I'm swayed a bit as well, there is a place for them in lists where the narrative game is in play.

 

Maybe that's obvious to many, but I still wanted to spend time typing on my keyboard about it at work happy.png

 

That may very well be the most honest sentiment ever expressed over the interwebs.

 

"I wanted to say something about it. At work"


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#22
thewarriorhunter

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lol @ Race and 9x19 (great name BTW).

 

I wasn't continuing the discussion to sway anyone... more like I'm trying to find a reason to take one.

 

Penthariian brought up a great point about area denial with scouts and SFTS which I had thought about but not voiced. With scouts and a couple SFTS units you can effectively deny a huge section of board if they're spread out just right.

 

As race mentioned I can see using them in a narrative mission and I probably will build mine up eventually, but I think for now it's going to the bottom of my list, even behind my Ork boys that I bought (but haven't touched).


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#23
Race Bannon

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Ya. Although I have a Lucius, I also have a standard Pod NIB that is also at the bottom as there are clearly other priorities on the to-build list.

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#24
MajorNese

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Well, there are still a few points in which a single pod makes more sense than SftS. Not saying it's points efficient, but there may be uses if you have one anyway.

 

1. Delayed deployment. SftS counters unit positions before turn one, pods counter unit positions after 1 or 2 turns. You can wait for an opening, or maelstrom cards, and then decide where the content is deployed best. SftS places your units for a one-time surprise, from then on it's clear where they can be next turns.

 

2. If you don't have turn one. SftS may place units right in the opponet's face, but can be shot before they act. Pod units are immune until actually deployed.

 

3. Combine the drops of characters. Either you limit yourself to few characters (and thereby CP), or they increase the drop count as one drop each (unless Issodon). A pod can take any number of chars you want, plus probably a combat squad/combi weapon squad. SftS a nice gunline, opponent wants to rip them apart in CC, and in one drop there are enough guys for a heroic intervention, as well as any desired buffs.

 

4. Save CP. Fewer units to SftS, more place for CP-generating HQs.


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#25
9x19 Parabellum

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5. They are still, after all, frackin' cool, even if they are not points efficient. 

 

Rule of Cool.

 

RULE OF COOL!


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