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Is there a place for drop pods in our armies with SFTS?

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#26
SanguinaryGuardsman

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I think people are crazy overlooking drop pods right now.

 

Imagine a drop pod with 2 units of devastators in them, probably with "short range" heavy weapons (like Grav Cannons and multimeltas).

Bring them down where they can do most damage (probably behind enemy lines), and fire away to full effect.  Drop a JP Captain near them for rerolls.

There really arent any closer range guns that would be clearly superior to longer range options.  Would 8 multimeltas be superior to 8 lascannons?  Maybe... but certainly not if you include the 100 point tax.  Also, your multimelta or grav cannon devs wont live beyond first turn whereas lascannon/heavy bolter devs do if you have a decent firebase.  



#27
Damo1701

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Keep on mind that you can use SFtS as a defensive/alternate deployment method for units you want in optimal positions.

For example, I burned a CP to have a devastator squad deploy after my opponent had f8nished deploying, as he failed to seize the initiative, and had deployed some lovely armour for 4 lascannons to snipe at.

It could be considered a dirty trick, but, way I see it, it's Raven Guard doing what they do best. Distract with deployed units then hit with hidden units.

Advantages there are that there is no movement penalty, and you get an oft denied chance to deploy key infantry units where they can do the most good.

Just because our stratagem allows us to get right in the face of the enemy doesn't mean we have to for every use.

How can we use it with assault units if we lose the first turn?

How about 19" away from an enemy, in cover, ready to strike at the most opportune moment, and do what you need them to.

Defensive, offensive, or even just area denial. The possibilities are out there, we just need the imagination to find the best possibilities.

For now, at least, drop pods are very much in the hands of the players, and whether their meta means they are valuable or worthless. Personally, it's worthless here, though I might look at the Dreadnought drop pod, that could be amusing.
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#28
ltvyper

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I feel given their durability and armaments, Pods need to be at least 30 points Cheaper (something like 55 with SB, 60 with Deathwind maybe - Also deathwind needs a slight buff, maybe 2d3 hits

 

Not to further beat this to death, but the only strengths of Pod vs SFTS is: Consolidating drops and in turn getting a higher concentration of Weapons (Special or Heavy). The ability to run 2 Dev Squads (or more likely) 2 Company Veteran squads to fill a pod with 8 Plasma Guns and 2 Combi-Plasma (as an exmaple) is definitely a choice. However, the cost is just very prohibitive.

 

I think the comparison of 95 pts v 1 CP is valid. I'm sure there are Raven Guard lists that would consider the 95 points a value when they are running a non-battalion list (Vanguard Detachment spam, as an example), but I think that's far and few between.

 

The ability to provide delivery on demand (in later turns) is not to be underestimated, but as the meta lately has been so alpha/beta intensive, I find most games very hard to consider holding a significant chunk of your forces in reserve beyond Turn 2.

 

Honorable mention goes to Sternguard x 10 in a pod dropped at 13-15" away, using the CP to give them +1 to W, and having them still claim our -1 to hit on the counter punch.

 

All comparisons lead towards "its sub optimal, but not awful"

 

edit: Also, of note: Pods in terms of deployment are identical to Jump Packs. 1W Infantry (Vanguard Vets) pay 2pts a model for Packs. Meaning transport cost for 10 models is 20 points. Pack is superior not only in cost, but also in every subsequent turn (eg: movement).

 

Maybe something clowny/cheaper is worth considering: 10 Devs with 8x Heavy Bolter in a pod, or 10x Shotgun Scouts in a pod, something like that.


Edited by ltvyper, 13 September 2017 - 09:50 PM.

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#29
SanguinaryGuardsman

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Keep on mind that you can use SFtS as a defensive/alternate deployment method for units you want in optimal positions.

For example, I burned a CP to have a devastator squad deploy after my opponent had f8nished deploying, as he failed to seize the initiative, and had deployed some lovely armour for 4 lascannons to snipe at.

It could be considered a dirty trick, but, way I see it, it's Raven Guard doing what they do best. Distract with deployed units then hit with hidden units.

Advantages there are that there is no movement penalty, and you get an oft denied chance to deploy key infantry units where they can do the most good.

Just because our stratagem allows us to get right in the face of the enemy doesn't mean we have to for every use.

How can we use it with assault units if we lose the first turn?

How about 19" away from an enemy, in cover, ready to strike at the most opportune moment, and do what you need them to.

Defensive, offensive, or even just area denial. The possibilities are out there, we just need the imagination to find the best possibilities.

For now, at least, drop pods are very much in the hands of the players, and whether their meta means they are valuable or worthless. Personally, it's worthless here, though I might look at the Dreadnought drop pod, that could be amusing.

 

I have a regular opponent that runs hellblasters... Im really tempted to paint up a 5 man squad of grav cannon devs and alpha strike his stupid hellblasters.  Really tempting (>.<)


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#30
thewarriorhunter

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or 10x Shotgun Scouts in a pod, something like that.

 

I'm not nitpicking since it seems we're all in agreement, but wouldn't it be better to deploy the scouts forward rather than waste the pod on them? Seems like you're giving them a delivery system they don't need (unless I'm missing something, which I might be).



#31
ltvyper

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or 10x Shotgun Scouts in a pod, something like that.

 

I'm not nitpicking since it seems we're all in agreement, but wouldn't it be better to deploy the scouts forward rather than waste the pod on them? Seems like you're giving them a delivery system they don't need (unless I'm missing something, which I might be).

 

You're 100% correct and I am an idiot. The only thing a pod would provide is the ability to avoid the table edge restriction.


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#32
Alcyon

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I agree with a lot of this, especially what MajorNese listed. I think Drop Pods are one of the units most likely to see a points drop when Chapter Approved comes out; it's very difficult for me to understand why they'd be more expensive than Rhinos, considering similar armament and the fact that they're stationary and useless after one turn. Maybe they could compromise by preventing them from being able to hold objectives? 



#33
ltvyper

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I've always felt that if they had a rule that made it so you could hold and objective with a pod but not contest an objective, effectively making them null in terms of board control once your opponent gets on top of them (and allowing your opponent the ability to move onto them, etc).


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#34
thewarriorhunter

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I can't recall right now and I'm at work so I can't reference the book, can pods hold an objective?



#35
9x19 Parabellum

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I can't recall right now and I'm at work so I can't reference the book, can pods hold an objective?

 

Um...can't *everything* in 8th edition hold an objective?

 

In 7th edition everything except zooming flyers and, i think, monstrous creatures, super-heavies and units falling back could claim objectives, so I believe drop pods could as well.


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#36
ltvyper

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I can't recall right now and I'm at work so I can't reference the book, can pods hold an objective?

They can. Model count matters though and they are only a unit of 1 so....


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#37
thewarriorhunter

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I can't recall right now and I'm at work so I can't reference the book, can pods hold an objective?

 

Um...can't *everything* in 8th edition hold an objective?

 

 

 

Flyers can't, or once chapter approved comes out they won't be able to.

 

I wasn't sure if they could since they were immobile.






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