Armoured company, fieldable?

[noigrim]

I might upgrade my two russes into a full blown company, but won't it be a bit difficult to grab objectives with them?

 

The plan is use punishers as antihorde with pask and a marine superheavy bringing the antitank.

[Captain_Krash]

Possible yes. At all effective no. Infantry are the winners of 8th edition. Imperial Guard tanks are kinda rubbish durable as all hell, but damage out put is kind of lacking.

 

 

Krash

[Tirak]

It's not optimal, but I wouldn't say it's not effective at all. I use Pask in a Poster Russ in most of my for fun lists and he always earns his points back. I played a game last night were I was able to gun down 3 different units on the same turn with him. I'd likely not run him in tourney if I expected to get too far, but neither him or Tank Commanders are trash tier.

[NatBrannigan]

They would get swamped in combat though, even with a Heavy Flamer overwatching all it takes is a small squad to get a charge in and you're falling back for the rest of the game...

[Tirak]

They would get swamped in combat though, even with a Heavy Flamer overwatching all it takes is a small squad to get a charge in and you're falling back for the rest of the game...

You don't take them as assault vehicles, you bring them as fire support. So they're sitting behind an infantry screen shelling away. Though rereading the OP, it seems he's talking about Heavy Support choice Russes, and those are indeed trash tier. 4+ to hit, a worse BS progression and only 35 points cheaper than a Tank Commander? Awful. TCs or Go Home.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

8th edition really demands a higher level of combined arms play. Because tanks are bad for Crowd Control now. The Heavy support Russes seem to have a place, so I'm not sure I'd just call them garbage and forget about them. 

 

I only have 5 Russes though, and I'm more a combined arms player anyway so...

[Tirak]

For only 35 more points you get a BS3+. If you're investing in tanks, you can't go only half way. Tank Commanders are a must, otherwise you waste too much shooting. Trying to bring super cheap Russes is an act of futility because there are other cheaper options. A stock russ with BC and HB is more expensive than 2 Earthshaker Batteries, yet they have the same BS, and the Earthshakers roll 2d6 take the best for shots, and the gun has +1 strength. Once you start mounting sponsons and upgunning to a hull mounted lascannon, the russ costs more than 2 Basilisks, which again would do more damage at the end of the day.

 

Heavy Support russes are not cost effective at all and are too easily neutralized due to their bad BS. Tank Commanders and Pask are at least usable.

[noigrim]

I see that russes aren't that good, guard can fall back from combat and shoot but tanks no.

Also what are your oppinions on the manticore? Seems the antitank to go now with 2D6 shots each turn.

[Guardsman Bob]

Good instinct there. Yes Manticores are da bomb. Not just for anti-tank either. I can't name a single timeinI this game since the original Forge World release these guys didn't have advantages over other regular artillery options. Actually I can't speak for 7th edition since I stopped playing after 6th epically screwed Guard with a terrible codex.

[lash144]

I would definitely add some armoured infantry, like Vets or infantry squads in chimeras or scions in primes.

[oldmanlee]

My mate runs a russ heavy list and while looking awsome on the board it has the massive problem of once it's infantry screen dies people just tie the russes in combat and it also struggles to kill anything. Hopefully the codex helps the Russ out big time of this will be another edition where my russe stay in there case

[Feral_80]

At the moment, LR are quite embarrassing. You can field an all-tank army, but don't expect too much.

 

I believe the best solution would be to include:

 

Pask (of course), with your choice of turret weaponry depending on the rest of your tanks, and always lascannon + melta sponsons

2x Tank commanders, as above

 

You'll need some screens. Either Hellhounds/Bane Wolves and/or Scout Sentinels with flamers are all good and thematic options.

 

As for the normal LR, the most decent solution currently seems to be the Conquerors from the FW index. I'm quite tempted to field 2x or 3x of these with 3x flamers and extra storm bolter. They will hit and kill some stuff after all.

 

Avoid Vanquishers, sadly they are just useless. Not even Pask can make them work.

[Galron]

Doable yes, but expensive and needs support. Obviously a tank commander or three. Personally I would bring several of the FW Malcador varients since they are now heavy support. The defender has what, 5 or 7 heavy bolters and a demolisher cannon. The flame thrower version is even more nasty. They you can grab a superheavy. Back these up with two or three chimera-born infantry squads and some artillery tanks, basilisks or medusas. maybe a cheap wyvern. Fill the rest of your points with leman russes of whatever type you feel you need. We will see with the new codex here in a week or two whether the value of LRs goes up a bit.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I really like the LR Conqueror, and as far as Heavy Support Russes go it's probably the best. I'd say that the Punisher might also be worth a look for crowd control, but considering that Blast Russes are really only useful against high toughness multiwound units, Their usefulness is probably a bit low.

 

Taking just tank commanders seems like tournament shenanigans, and since I prefer to run balanced lists in casual play, you'll understand my defense of the HS Russ. 

[Guardsman Bob]

Leave it to GW to throw a curve ball. In every other edition of this game they have done lackluster fixes (or lack thereof) in the codex. Over the last twenty years the safe bet would have been that if IG/AM tanks suck with the release of a new edition they would stay that way. But not this time.

 

I’m wondering if GW has picked up some real talent. Their game development in the past has been very hit-or-miss. Something feels very different.

 

Viva the new Russ! I’m going to flipping pre-order the freaking codex.

[Galron]

Talk about this thread doing a 180. A 2d6 rerolling # of hits standard battlecannon with no negatives to hit (on a limited or no move) is pretty dang good compared to where it was a couple days ago. True we don't know what the other doctrines will bring but right now a catachan tank company is looking pretty deadly for the first round or two of shooting.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

GW really did the Russ a favor with the shoot twice thing. Especially the Punisher now pumping out 40 cannon shots. Theoretically a LRBT can wipe a squad off the board now, which really helps it. 

[Captain_Krash]

Ahem a Tank company is super effective and extremely viable. You can do no wrong building a tank company.

 

Krash

[gunnyogrady]

All of this, and they also leaked that the price is actually going down. Woah Gee Dubs, and thank you!

 

So yes, armored company just got viable. Get your season pass for the Imperial Parking Lot.

 

I'm thinking: Catachan Russes with Battlecannons (plus maybe a Punisher or two); liberal application of Harker/Yarrick for rerolls; Tank Commanders for orders; and FW Sabres with Defence Searchlights for +1 to hit.

 

For support? Maybe some cheap bodies for bubble wrap, and a Scion Squad or two with Plasma and a Tempestor to point, click, and delete a choice unit. I could even see some backfield Earthshaker Batteries, too, if you're into that kind of thing.

[Halfpint100]

Page 27 – Sabre Weapons Battery, Defence Searchlight Change this to read: ‘If this model has a defence searchlight, at the start of your Shooting phase it may select a single enemy unit within 48" and line of sight. One friendly Infantry or Sabre Weapons Battery unit adds 1 to any hit rolls that target the chosen unit until the end of the Shooting phase. A single unit cannot benefit from multiple Defence Searchlights.’

 

Searchlights cant be used on vehicles anymore

[Tyr13]

Yeah, the only source of +1 to hit (iirc) is the salamander command vehicle. And those get expensive fast... especially since they can only buff a unit per turn...

[gunnyogrady]

Dang! Well that sucks! What do you expect for 20 points, though? So it is.

[narcolepticltd]

The new grinding advance is awesome! I was planning to run russ/tank heavy regardless as that's just what I want to build/paint - but now the main gun will be a lot less lack luster even in a HS russ :) Hoping the points reductions pan out nicely as well (wondering if that will just be for an HS russ or if TC's will get a reduction as well...)

[noigrim]

Was doubting between getting 20 guardsmen or one punisher and now I'm sold on the second!

Only tank lists are still not worth it because of their HtH and objective capturing issues.

 

Obviously catachan manticores are superb. In the marines codex doesn't say anything about mixing chapters in a detachment, so the same will be appliable to guard, the only benefit to have the same chapter keyword is the objective secured for troops really.

[zero88]

Does anyone else think that for a full blown armored company or primarily LRBT based lists Valhallan could be the best? Although offensively it isn't as powerful, the fact that degrading a single Russ will be VERY hard pays dividends that will easily compensate in turns 2+