Vanguard Veterans

[Captain Idaho]

I decided my lists needed more close combat power so I've added Vanguard Veterans to it.

 

My point in creating this thread is to discuss uses and load outs and my peers experiences.

 

I'm thinking Jump Packs are mandatory. The speed is crucial and being able to drop in along with another unit (like Terminators) adds saturation.

 

What sort of wargear do people consider decent?

 

I wanted 3 power axes, Sergeant with twin lightning claws and 3 with Storm Shields and chainswords. The last 3 members I'd get double chainswords for extra oomph.

 

However, the unit isn't overly powerful in assault, particulary against tough targets. Twin lightning claws instead of power axes gives an extra 3 attacks to the unit and rerolling to wound is better than S5 in many cases.

 

Problem is the cost. It mounts up. What do folk consider here?

 

What do you use your Vanguard for? What do you arm them with?

[Kinstryfe]

Unfortunately, I use my vanguard strictly so I didn't need to buy 20 more terminators to build a first company, so all I can add is that they sure do look neat with all those cool weapons, don't they?

 

And that jump packs seem like a no brainier. They're so comparatively cheap that unless you had your heart set on putting them in a transport, even if you don't put them in reserve it seems like a good value for better movement and flying.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

*cough cough* Twin plasma pistols. *cough*

 

At least that's why I'm casting a bunch of plasma pistol arms. Don't have enough in my bits box, but epoxy putty and a blue stuff mold can fix that.

 

Also, drop in such a way that the closest enemy model is their favorite character model, and (with the aid of the Captain who drops beside them) pump as many high power plasma shots into the character as you can. You'll probably lose a model, even with re-rolls of 1s, but you should make swiss cheese of the target.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Freman Bloodglaive

[Captain Idaho]

Hmm, that's a bunch of points for double plasma. Wouldn't Sternguard be better for that? I need the close combat power though.

 

I'm thinking I need the lightning claws. The extra attacks along with the rerolls to wound seem decisive.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I do like twin lightning claws. They allow a fair amount of good quality attacks. Drop a Chaplain beside them to give re-rolls to hit as well. I gave my Chaplain a power fist, just because the Warp Talon claws I bits-ordered also came with the Raptor power fist, so they fit together nicely.

[Captain Idaho]

Yes I'm looking to get a jump pack Chaplain now!

 

Bit of conversion work required but I could even use the Betrayal of Calth model.

[MeltaRange]

If you have ways other effective ways to deal with T8, I love lightning claws personally.  For someone seeking "more close combat power" I think that is ultimately the best overall choice.

 

I often find my Vanguard Vets dropping out of orbit to engage elite infantry and/or characters.  In that light, I could see a unit utilizing grav Pistols to pretty good effect.  Something like 2 2x grav pistols and 3 grav pistol + chainsword?  7 grav shots and 14 str 4 attacks has some pretty good duality for the price IMO.  Especially if you are running them independently without a character. (in which case either plasma pistols or full out combat weapons is better for a captain/chaplain respectively)

[greatcrusade08]

I can imagine cost is the biggest downfall of these guys, why not claw termies?

a regular assault squad is putting out a lot of hurt, but I feel your right about not being able to put a dent in heavy armour.

I just don't know if vanguard are the answer tbh

[Newtoncain]

So for 4score + a decade you get 5 guys with Jump packs all rocking duel chain swords.  That's 21 attacks for less than 100pts.  I can't see running them any other way.  I also add a MB to the Sgt if I have the extra points.

[Captain Idaho]

Good value huh. Seems a shame not to have more powerful combat power though?

[Toxichobbit]

Does anyone ever take a squad with a mix of weapons? I like the idea of Vangaurd Vets but I refuse to model them all with the same gear. It makes for such a boring looking unit and goes against the idea of Veterans having full access to the armoury to use their personally preferred weapons.

[Major_Gilbear]

Does anyone ever take a squad with a mix of weapons? I like the idea of Vangaurd Vets but I refuse to model them all with the same gear. It makes for such a boring looking unit and goes against the idea of Veterans having full access to the armoury to use their personally preferred weapons.

 

I think this is a key issue with any squad that can have a wide variety of weapons; it is usually more efficient to gear the whole squad one way, even if you give a certain number of them "stronger" weapons to help them in the chosen role.

 

Any squad that can do a bit of everything quickly becomes expensive and cannot focus efficiently at one specific thing.

 

Oddly though, general purpose squads tend to do better in smaller games than bigger ones, as the added flexibility offsets their higher cost-vs-lower efficiency somewhat.

 

In any case, I do agree that it's a bit of shame to not take modelling advantage of the wider choice.

 

 

@ Captain Idaho:

 

What exactly is your intended role/opponent for them?

 

Chapter Traits notwithstanding, the Raven Guard section of the forum might offer more acute answers on loadouts, as they tend to be use VV squads more often. Twin LC or twin pistols seems to be the preferred choice for RG.

 

Try as I might, I struggle to see too much value in Storm Shields on the squad for the points and efficiency cost; anything that they need SS for, they probably shouldn't be facing. A couple for selective tanking is probably okay, but beyond that...

[Captain Idaho]

Storm Shields is pure shooting mitigation. They will attack infantry primarily though stripping wounds off other targets is handy.

 

They'd be used alongside an army that has both Cataphractii Terminators dropping in and a Rhino with Sternguard to have an effective punch.

 

So the idea is there is target saturation to an extent. The AP-3 weapons that normally find it easy to shoot dead Space Marines will then have to deal with the Cataphractii and Vanguard invulnerable saves. I'm hoping it will frustrate an opponent to face a full Vanguard squad with 6 bodies to chew threw before the close combat meat, half of which have very good invulnerable saves.

 

So do people consider it should be lowered to 2 Storm Shields to save points?

 

***

 

Yes the biggest downfall is certainly comparison to Terminator squads (Assault and Cataphractii) but the hopes I have is their added speed. 40K seems to reward players who have mobility on the table.

 

Anyhoo... I thought of an additional cost saving mechanic. Scions of Guilliman works in close combat which many of us (read me) forget and that means clever timing of this Stratagem will enable a squad of Vanguard out there on their own to operate without rerolls from a Captain.

 

The added bonus here is we can use this Stratagem in the shooting phase then again in the Fight phase.

 

It's got me thinking that I can use some lightning claws and Scions of Guilliman to make a dangerous attack force without forking out the points for a Chaplain.