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Which primarch is next? Or will it be two?

Primarch Speculation

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#26
AfroCampbell

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I think it comes down to a more simple equation:

How far can you push the fluff (which is a strong driver of sales) before it breaks?

 

I think die-hard fans of the series would be howling in outrage at the idea of Sanguinius or Curze or Horus or Manus respawning in some cheap video-game like manner. It cheapens their deaths and it ruins the entire point of the Horus Heresy series. If everyone has plot armour 100% thick what is the point in caring about any death or any significant action in the fluff, it all becomes MEANINGLESS. If anyone can die and simply be poofed into existence through cheap means, people will stop caring, they will stop buying into the universe. 

I foresee that ruining the universe and fan-base far faster than any primaris dramas.


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#27
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I'd like to see the Lion return. He can head up an Imperium that is whilst Guilliman heads up the break away Ultramar as the High Lords rally to another opposed to Guilliman who can possibly oppose him.

Chapters switch sides and maybe Calgar's building resentment sees him join the Lion.

Would be delicious.
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#28
Kastor Krieg

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I think it comes down to a more simple equation:

How far can you push the fluff (which is a strong driver of sales) before it breaks?

 

I think die-hard fans of the series would be howling in outrage at the idea of Sanguinius or Curze or Horus or Manus respawning in some cheap video-game like manner. It cheapens their deaths and it ruins the entire point of the Horus Heresy series. If everyone has plot armour 100% thick what is the point in caring about any death or any significant action in the fluff, it all becomes MEANINGLESS. If anyone can die and simply be poofed into existence through cheap means, people will stop caring, they will stop buying into the universe. 

I foresee that ruining the universe and fan-base far faster than any primaris dramas.

That's why it's NOT cheaply poofed back into life. Guilliman and Lion have the strongest reasonable basis of coming back "as they were". Primarchs as altered as Manus and Sangy would be something entirely different. They would not BACK if they are a forlorn apparition at the head of a lost Legion sized force of former heroes embodying "even in death I still serve" even futher than any Dreadnought ever did or a vision-maddened fiery Emps-daemon!

They already cloned Horus several times, just so that Abaddon could kill him over and over. They had Manus cloned so that Fulgrim could do his therapy with the sorry clone of the primarch. Talk about cheap means, Fabius Bile is the king of those.


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#29
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Fabius 'The Clonelord' Bile playing about with genetics is cheap but Eldar 'handwavium' deathmagic at the same time as Cawl turns up with his Forest Gump leg braces isnt?
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#30
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Wolfen Russ so more likely than unlikely.  Russ starts wandering around in the warp, canis helix wonder twin powers activate, and suddenly he's hunting under the bloodmoon with the rest of the 13th who had that exact same thing happen to them

 

As for the other primarchs, I fully expect they'll get models too, regardless of fluff.  Too much profit to be had on a per unit basis for their models to justify not doing so to the stockholders.

 

As for the eagle teaser, I think it's a custodes model.



#31
Adeptus

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It's not about what can be justified from a lore perspective. It's not even about what fans want. It's about what's best for the setting as a whole.

The problem is that people just don't know what's best for themselves. They're all like "Squeeeee! Primarchs!" but then the reality of the situation sets in, they realise that having Guilliman stomping around the galaxy doesn't match the hype (because how could anything match that?) and that the anticipation is actually more enjoyable than the fulfilment. And suddenly GW has lost a bunch of interesting mystery because we know exactly what the lost Primarchs are up to and where they are and what they're doing now they're back. And we're all disappointed because it doesn't live up to the awesome ideas we had in our heads about how it was all going to go down.

They never should have brought Guilliman back, and bringing back any more would just be doubling down on the mistake.
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#32
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Legion of the Damned don't have flames painted on their armor. They're warp fire. And they're intangible ghosts too.


They don't look like the spectres created by the Emperor in *Master of Mankind*, though.

For instance, *Fall of Cadia* doesn't mention them looking like the psychic fire there, which you would think it would have if that was the idea. In fact, there's a bit where one of the other Space Marines meets the gaze of one of them.

Maybe the flames on their armour are supposed to be Warp fire licking at their plate, but they're not made of it.

As for Ferrus Manus, there's a big difference between the Emperor creating a Warp ghost of him (and who's to say doing so didn't "use up" Manus's soul like fuel?) while alive and suddenly doing it again on a semi-permanent basis after 10,000 years of slow braindeath.

Edited by mhacdebhandia, 02 October 2017 - 02:55 AM.


#33
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Wolfen Russ so more likely than unlikely.  Russ starts wandering around in the warp, canis helix wonder twin powers activate, and suddenly he's hunting under the bloodmoon with the rest of the 13th who had that exact same thing happen to them
 

We dont know if Russ is capable of degrading into a wulfen. They did use his gene-seed after his discovery to help stabalize the VIth. We also know not all the 13th has fallen to a wulfen state.

It makes no sense as in the scandi/viking/german mythology that the wolves are based off of, fallen heros become monsters (wulfen) while the strong overcome it and retain their humanity. Russ becoming a wulfen would means he is a fallen hero which makes little sense.

Bah, I best bite my tongue.

Truth is we are on the ride for primarchs coming. Whether we like it or not. I do not think they should have come back because now for those BA/IH/SoH/NL players they will always feel slighted.
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#34
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Legion of the Damned don't have flames painted on their armor. They're warp fire. And they're intangible ghosts too.


They don't look like the spectres created by the Emperor in *Master of Mankind*, though.

For instance, *Fall of Cadia* doesn't mention them looking like the psychic fire there, which you would think it would have if that was the idea. In fact, there's a bit where one of the other Space Marines meets the gaze of one of them.

Maybe the flames on their armour are supposed to be Warp fire licking at their plate, but they're not made of it.

As for Ferrus Manus, there's a big difference between the Emperor creating a Warp ghost of him (and who's to say doing so didn't "use up" Manus's soul like fuel?) while alive and suddenly doing it again on a semi-permanent basis after 10,000 years of slow braindeath.

 

They aren't made of fire, but they wreathed in it as it burns around their blackened armor. And they are ghosts, as bolts just harmlessly pass through their bodies. Unfortunately for Chaos however their blades still bite despite their incorporeal nature.


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#35
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Horus is dead. Destroyed. Soul-shot. Mind-bullet. Erased. Finished. Over.
Plus his favoured “son” doesn’t like him either.
All other Primarchs can return.
Except for the headless one. He was a bit weird.
No ... no I didn’t like him at all.

If you havent noticed almost ALL the daemon primarchs favoured sons hate their fathers. Typhus, Ahriman, Abaddon, etc hated their fathers.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it can't happen. The "headless one" was Manus and he already came back after death once as we repeatedly said. While we are on topic of primarchs returning from death, horus was cloned and brought back. Fabius could do it again.

That’s nice. I was referring to Konrad actually, lol

#36
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And yet Ferrus and Sanguinius are still more likely to return than Jaghatai...
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#37
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With new GW it really is anyone's guess, for good or bad, but if I were a betting man I'd put money on Lion, Russ and some poorly justified version of Sanguinius for loyalists, then Angron and Fulgrim for chaos. Maybe Dorn if Fists/Templars get their own book.
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#38
Sete

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Sons of Dorn book could be easily justifiable.

3 Chars from BT, 1 From IF and one from CF.
Add Dornaught, and I assume with the chapter reverting to legion organization, Chapter specific troops will pop op.
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#39
HeritorA

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I think it comes down to a more simple equation:

How far can you push the fluff (which is a strong driver of sales) before it breaks?

 

I think die-hard fans of the series would be howling in outrage at the idea of Sanguinius or Curze or Horus or Manus respawning in some cheap video-game like manner. It cheapens their deaths and it ruins the entire point of the Horus Heresy series. If everyone has plot armour 100% thick what is the point in caring about any death or any significant action in the fluff, it all becomes MEANINGLESS. If anyone can die and simply be poofed into existence through cheap means, people will stop caring, they will stop buying into the universe. 

I foresee that ruining the universe and fan-base far faster than any primaris dramas.

Thank you, I wouldn't have told it better.

 

 

And yet Ferrus and Sanguinius are still more likely to return than Jaghatai...

Based on what - at least first 2 are 'dead'. Jaghatai is alive - so it's the other way around. As AfroCampbell said - if they resurrect Sangy, Manus, Curze etc. it's equivalent to shooting yourself in the leg and loosing big chunk of it's W40K fanbase. Fanbase who get into the universe partly due to the absence of cheap resurrection tactics used elsewhere.



#40
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And yet Ferrus and Sanguinius are still more likely to return than Jaghatai...

Based on what - at least first 2 are 'dead'. Jaghatai is alive - so it's the other way around. As AfroCampbell said - if they resurrect Sangy, Manus, Curze etc. it's equivalent to shooting yourself in the leg and loosing big chunk of it's W40K fanbase. Fanbase who get into the universe partly due to the absence of cheap resurrection tactics used elsewhere.

 

Based on the fact GW don't give a :cuss about chapters that are not Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Ultramarines would be my guess. 


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#41
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#42
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I'm starting to grow tired of repeating this.  There is a prophecy that Ferrus will return to aid humanity in its time of greatest need, his warp ghost appeared before his Legion at the moment the Emperor was interred in the Throne and told them he'd be back.  This came from a GW publication.  He might be dead, but he's not gone forever.  Will GW actually follow through with that?  Unknown; it is 3rd Edition-era lore and some of that has changed recently (and not for the better, in my opinion).  But it remains a possibility.


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#43
Kastor Krieg

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I'm starting to grow tired of repeating this.  There is a prophecy that Ferrus will return to aid humanity in its time of greatest need, his warp ghost appeared before his Legion at the moment the Emperor was interred in the Throne and told them he'd be back.  This came from a GW publication.  He might be dead, but he's not gone forever.  Will GW actually follow through with that?  Unknown; it is 3rd Edition-era lore and some of that has changed recently (and not for the better, in my opinion).  But it remains a possibility.

I think the scene in Master of Mankind powerfully reaffirms this prophecy.

And Eldar Death God handwavium? Ask Ahriman what he thinks about it :D


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#44
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Legion of the Damned don't have flames painted on their armor. They're warp fire. And they're intangible ghosts too.


They don't look like the spectres created by the Emperor in *Master of Mankind*, though.

For instance, *Fall of Cadia* doesn't mention them looking like the psychic fire there, which you would think it would have if that was the idea. In fact, there's a bit where one of the other Space Marines meets the gaze of one of them.

Maybe the flames on their armour are supposed to be Warp fire licking at their plate, but they're not made of it.

As for Ferrus Manus, there's a big difference between the Emperor creating a Warp ghost of him (and who's to say doing so didn't "use up" Manus's soul like fuel?) while alive and suddenly doing it again on a semi-permanent basis after 10,000 years of slow braindeath.

 

 

Honestly, I thought I'd hate any version of Ferrus returning to 40k, but to my shock, I kinda love this one.

 

It suits Ferrus' role in the Heresy so well. The first Primarch to fall to fratricide, the first to spurn Horus' ill-fated bargain. He died fueled by hate, by outrage at the treachery of his closest brother - with all we know about the Warp and emotion, the concept of the Legion of the Damned as 'Imperial Demons' would tie in perfectly with an avatar of Ferrus' undying fury.

 

We know major conflicts effect the Warp, and not necessarily proportionately to their death toll - considering the event that caused the birth of Drachny'en, there's way more involved than just the practical considerations of said events. Ferrus' death in the Heresy is such a significant symbol, and symbology is everything in the Warp. Isstvan V saw the destruction of a dream generations in the making, it ended the Great Crusade, saw thousands murdered in a single moment of horrifying betrayal as the second wave Legions showed their true colours, and resulted in the death of a Primarch for his loyalty. The raw emotional turmoil of such an event could echo across the Warp for eternity.

 

A tortured fragment of Ferrus' soul, a revenant of utter spite bound to un-life by his connection to the Emperor and the aftershock of Isstvan V is something I'm totally on board with.


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#45
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Also no wulfen Russ.

 

 

40,000 times this. 


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#46
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Ferrus. Was. An. Idiot.

There. I said it.

He was beloved by all other Primarchs though apparently. Although why will always baffle me.
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#47
Kastor Krieg

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Ferrus. Was. An. Idiot.

There. I said it.

You. Need. To. Provide. Points. Not. Bullet. Points.

There, I dismissed it.


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#48
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Hopefully two with more to follow, as the more cool models & options released the better is my opinion, not like anyone is ever forced to buy them or play against them if they have that big of a hang up about them existing but then I don't really mind what fluff magic GW produce to even bring back the dead primarchs, as I much prefer the more crazy over the top 40k to the serious business 40k that became common around 3rd/4th. 


Edited by Shockmaster, 02 October 2017 - 06:27 PM.


#49
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Ferrus. Was. An. Idiot.

There. I said it.

You. Need. To. Provide. Points. Not. Bullet. Points.

There, I dismissed it.

He was rubbish in solo combat.

He ran off with no support.

He got his head removed by letting anger cloud his judgement.

Idiot.

When you have Vulkan who can do all the smithing that Ferrus does but on a better scale (lol, dragon joke) Ferrus is nothing original or special.

When Angron is angry. Ferrus’s anger is nothing special.
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#50
Black_Star

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I think if Ferrus were to come back, it would either be as leigion of the damned which is possible but I doubt GW wants to do a release with normal scale marines, or as a version 2.0 (Cawl recreates/clones him).

 

If they were to have Cawl make a new one, I could see it starting at the very least a conflict on mars (Cawl has tried to get sir smurf to put him in charge of mars). They could also have the Iron hands want nothing to do with him and tie him to a primaris Iron Hand Successor. It would give them an opportunity to have him do something impressive, and a new primarch without baggage could at least be interesting. 







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