karden00 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 It's not about what can be justified from a lore perspective. It's not even about what fans want. It's about what's best for the setting as a whole. The problem is that people just don't know what's best for themselves. They're all like "Squeeeee! Primarchs!" but then the reality of the situation sets in, they realise that having Guilliman stomping around the galaxy doesn't match the hype (because how could anything match that?) and that the anticipation is actually more enjoyable than the fulfilment. And suddenly GW has lost a bunch of interesting mystery because we know exactly what the lost Primarchs are up to and where they are and what they're doing now they're back. And we're all disappointed because it doesn't live up to the awesome ideas we had in our heads about how it was all going to go down. They never should have brought Guilliman back, and bringing back any more would just be doubling down on the mistake. I'm gonna have to disagree. Aside from Primaris marines, I am very much enjoying the lore of Guilliman being brought back. His personality and how it has grown was one of the best parts of 40k lore for me. The way his hair is greying, and he has pretty much given up on trying to say "My father was not a God" to all the religious zealots around him, the stress of trying to keep this failing empire alive. All of these things have turned Guilliman's character into something heavier. He's not fighting for a bright future anymore (he says this himself in his thoughts), he's merely fighting for the survival of man. Back in 30k, Guilliman thought the war against Chaos was close to ending and would probably take a few centuries at most. He wakes up nearly 10,000 years later, and not only is the war still going on, but things have gotten worse than they were when he was last awake. The way he had to confront this nightmarish reality was pretty cool to read. And the personal debates he has with himself over the nature of the Emperor have been some of the coolest philosophical parts of 40k lore. He realizes that he is disgusted by the Emperor's true personality, but also knows that he himself is growing to resemble the Emperor more and more each day (Guilliman is turning into a tyrannical, unfeeling being who sees others as tools and only cares about improving humanity as a whole). There's also the theological debates he has with himself over what the Emperor is at this point. He refuses to admit that the Emperor is a god, but witnesses so many miracles that he can't help but think of the Emperor as 'Divine' near the end of Dark Imperium. The cognitive dissonance that plays out within Guilliman's head, coupled with the horror he went through when he woke up, was a great read. So I'm going to have to say that I'm glad Guilliman came back. I dunno about his hair greying... he’s been (functionally) “alive” for what, 3-400 years at most? Call it 200 since landing on Macragge up to the end of the Heresy. I forget just how many years he sat as Lord Commander after that, but post return the setting has advanced for, what, another 100? So maybe he’s pushing 500? In my head cannon, a Primarch shouldn’t quite be aging that ‘fast’... I dunno, maybe the poison he got from Fulgrim is turning him into the Phoenician one subtle way at a time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Loss of hair color due to stress is a thing, and Guilliman has had a LOT of stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 He is the exact opposite of that archetype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Yeah no offence but not buying that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 40k shouldnt be using comic book tropes. Which is funny to say because lots of stuff around the Primarchs is based around the bible and resurrection is not exactly something new there and obviously came way before comics. People should really stop throwing the "but comic books" thing around so much. A single resurrection won't turn into the resurrection abuse comic books are doing anyway. Dark Imperium novel. Great insight into Guilliman's thoughts and struggled upon return. Despite all his gifts, charisma and power the job of saving the Imperium might just be too much for him. Dark Imperium 2 is out tomorrow also. Can't be more hyped! I really hope it comes out as audiobook soon! I've barely time to read books these days so I decided to pick up audiobooks on my way to and from work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiel Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 What books do you recommend with returned Guilliman then? Is the above from codex snippets and quotes or particular novels? Everything I wrote of took place in Gathering Storm Part 3 (where Guilliman wakes up) and Dark Imperium (where Guilliman begins to lose his humanity). As for the hair greying part, here is a direct quote from Dark Imperium: His golden hair had thinned a little, and at the temples were a few strands of grey. Pale brown circles gathered under his eyes when he grew tired, and there was tightness in his jaw, a legacy of the internal pain he had borne since his resurrection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Yeah his thinning hair and lines under his eyes aren't due to ageing but the immense stress he's under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 He doesn’t really sleep. Let’s remember his physical stress as well. We are reminded that damn Xenos witchcraft and the suit have helped restore him. We still really don’t know about his full physical recovery aside from the heinous elder warning Guilliman to not take the suit off. I am just finishing Blood of Iax and can’t wait to start DI2. Plague Wars will be next. I am dying to read that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 He doesn’t really sleep. Let’s remember his physical stress as well. We are reminded that damn Xenos witchcraft and the suit have helped restore him. We still really don’t know about his full physical recovery aside from the heinous elder warning Guilliman to not take the suit off. I am just finishing Blood of Iax and can’t wait to start DI2. Plague Wars will be next. I am dying to read that too. Dark Imperium 2 has insight into him removing the suit and his recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 He doesn’t really sleep. Let’s remember his physical stress as well. We are reminded that damn Xenos witchcraft and the suit have helped restore him. We still really don’t know about his full physical recovery aside from the heinous elder warning Guilliman to not take the suit off. I am just finishing Blood of Iax and can’t wait to start DI2. Plague Wars will be next. I am dying to read that too. Dark Imperium 2 has insight into him removing the suit and his recovery. Do they show his 'shaving accident' too? I wouldn't be surprised if Fulgrim is next. Especially now that we've seen the multibreasted slug/worm slaanesh sculpt. I just finished Lords of Silence (Death Guard) and it definitely talks of 'other' Primarchs that want a shot at Guilliman. Mortarion was disappointed that the 'first' back into the fold was "boring old Guilliman". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 40k shouldnt be using comic book tropes. Which is funny to say because lots of stuff around the Primarchs is based around the bible and resurrection is not exactly something new there and obviously came way before comics. People should really stop throwing the "but comic books" thing around so much. A single resurrection won't turn into the resurrection abuse comic books are doing anyway. If we are going to have any biblical level resurrections going on then I’ll forego Corax and be okay with a straight up Emperor of Mankid End of Days/Revelations return :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 How about a new Primarch for Primaris ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 How about a new Primarch for Primaris ? Not likely since it's Heresy era geneseed used from the original Primarchs (sans traitors and the two lost Primarchs...if Cawl actually kept his word (doubtful)), so no need for a new Primarch there. Besides, do we really need GW going "so you think the Primarchs were everything, but wait there's more!" and pulling a Billy Mays on us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Yeah, Primaris don't need their own Primarch, given they use the geneseed from the existing 20... uhhh... I mean 9, honest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 How about a new Primarch for Primaris ? Guilliman is already back. /S As other said, they ude the original 9 geneseeds and primarchs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spessmarine Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I dunno about his hair greying... he’s been (functionally) “alive” for what, 3-400 years at most? Call it 200 since landing on Macragge up to the end of the Heresy. I forget just how many years he sat as Lord Commander after that, but post return the setting has advanced for, what, another 100? So maybe he’s pushing 500? In my head cannon, a Primarch shouldn’t quite be aging that ‘fast’... I dunno, maybe the poison he got from Fulgrim is turning him into the Phoenician one subtle way at a time.. trueyeah, I'm thinking killer daemon poison is a lot rougher on the body than any bureaucratic headache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Raziel Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Am I the only one that doesn't like the aesthetic decision to produce Loyalist primarchs as monstrous creature-sized models? Space Marines are already considered giants, but one can accept the idea of an 8 foot tall superman living among people who are a little more than half their size, but if you accept the idea that a normal adult male human would come up to about chest height on a Primaris Marine, then the idea of beings the size of Robby G living among societies of normal human beings gets a little absurd.Unless GW is making some kind of statement about the significance and heroism of the loyalist Primarchs by making the models outsized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triszin Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Am I the only one that doesn't like the aesthetic decision to produce Loyalist primarchs as monstrous creature-sized models? Space Marines are already considered giants, but one can accept the idea of an 8 foot tall superman living among people who are a little more than half their size, but if you accept the idea that a normal adult male human would come up to about chest height on a Primaris Marine, then the idea of beings the size of Robby G living among societies of normal human beings gets a little absurd. Unless GW is making some kind of statement about the significance and heroism of the loyalist Primarchs by making the models outsized. GW said the size of the model doesnt equate to their real size. the tabletop is a mixture of the models size in lore, and the "size" of their significance on the battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsWithLegs Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 If any loyalist primarch is coming back soon, as much as I would love to see the Lion, its going to be Russ. With the space wolves on Vigilus and rumors and speculation for a campaign there starting up in the future it would be a perfect time for him to return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 They should bring back Sanguinius first . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 If they'd bring Sanguinius back the forum would explode even more than when they announced Primaris Marines lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Would love to see it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 They should bring back Sanguinius first. They should absolutely not! Sanguinius coming back invalidates so much regarding the Blood Angels. I don't even PLAY Blood Angels and I would prefer he not come back because it'd make so much of their story pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Oh boy here we go again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Am I the only one that doesn't like the aesthetic decision to produce Loyalist primarchs as monstrous creature-sized models? Space Marines are already considered giants, but one can accept the idea of an 8 foot tall superman living among people who are a little more than half their size, but if you accept the idea that a normal adult male human would come up to about chest height on a Primaris Marine, then the idea of beings the size of Robby G living among societies of normal human beings gets a little absurd. Unless GW is making some kind of statement about the significance and heroism of the loyalist Primarchs by making the models outsized. How tall is the Guillman model anyway, in regards to approximate height? Primarchs should only be 10-12 feet tall excluding Magnus, and the Guilliman model always struck me as a bit odd regarding its proportions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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