Tactical Spam: Could it work?

[Panzer]

 

 

When we get ObjSec at Christmas, Tactical squads will get slightly better. Put a squad in a Pod and drop them on an Objective on turn 3. Still costs around 250-ish points and I am not totally convinced it is the best way to snag objectives but ObjSec will at least give them some reason to exist.

Or just take Scouts for that, really. Usually even saves you the points for the Drop Pod so you can take even more stuff.

 

The advantage of Tacs in a Pod is simply that you can plonk them down on any objective. No need to make your way there under fire. Whether that is worth 100 points is debatable.

 

So can Scouts usually. Just place them anywhere that's 9" away from the enemy and their deployment zone. If you want to claim something in the opponents deployment zone you usually would have to fight your way through anyway and it's not like BA is an army to sit back and shoot last time I checked. ;)

[tychobi]

The argument seems to have split.  Are we discussing the over costed drop pod or the under performance of Blood Angel tacs?  Either way you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by choosing either.  Neither has a unique role or efficiency edge.  Combining the two does not fix the problems that the original units have.  So give it a go proxy style.   Then give it a go proxy style with Salamander doc.  Then get back to us 

[Meatcaber]

What about a sort of Rhino rush idea using Tacticals or even Assault marines for extra special weapons?

 

We can put two 5 man squads in a Rhino, if going Tacs or Assault that's 2 or 3 special weapon per squad, or 4 to 6 per Rhino. We could even put a squad of melta and a squad of plasma in a Rhino to add a bit of versatility for taking on different targets. As the OP said, I think Tacs would work (marginally) better for Ultramarines and Assault would work better for us because we can take plasma and melta in our assault squads. 

 

The idea of putting an all flamer Tac squad in a Rhino appeals to me, sure they would be better with ObSec, they're not so much of a threat but with a little luck you can put them where you need them and they would have a reasonable amount of dakka if within 8" and 3d6 overwatch auto-hits if they get charged. 

 

Someone mentioned this already. For a Battalion we could take two 5 man Tac squads, with dual special weapons to taste, shove both squads in a Rhino, take a unit of Scouts, add a couple of HQ's to taste and we have a fairly cheap Battalion detachment. Sure it might not be game-breaking but for what we're getting I think it's not a bad deal. Again, probably better with Ultramarines. 

 

Back way at the beginning of 7th before I stopped playing, I frequently ran 5 man assault squads with 2 plasmaguns in Rhino's despite a lot of people saying I was doing it wrong. Admittedly, it was mainly because our Rhino's were free back then and you could rapid fire from the hatch (something we still have?). I still have the units and would like to use them, only now I can put both squads with combiplasmas in a single Rhino. That's 12 plasmashots in rapid fire range. 

 

I'm not ready to completely dismiss Tactical squads quite yet. 

[Karhedron]

The issue with using Tactical or even Assault squads as special weapon caddies is why would you do that when Vet squads do the same job better?

 

Tactical squads do at least grant you CPs in Battalion detachments and once they get ObjSec, they might be worthwhile in that role. I suppose it depends whether you would rather have the CPs or more effective units.

 

Scouts are in a sort of awkward place in that they have slightly more special slots than Tacs but not as many as Vets but don't get ObjSec and don't count for CPs unless you are running and Brigade.

 

Tactical plasma spam isn't awful if you decide you want to fill those Troop slots. It is probably slightly more effective than a 5-man squad with missile launcher hugging an objective all game.

[SanguinaryHarlequin]

To take two 5 man tac squads with two plasma guns(a plasma and a combi-plasma) in a Rhino costs you 258 points.

 

To take a 5 man squad of Company Veterans with 5 plasma guns, Stormshields and Jump packs costs you 185 points. (160 without the Storm shields)

 

Assault Squad Sergeants can't take Combi-weapons, so it would be 8 shots from your two Assault Squads. For 212 points with jump packs or 254 points if you run them in the Rhino.

 

It's a balance of how much ablative wounds/bodys on the field mean to you and your tactics. If you want fast deployable alpha plasma then Company Veterans are probably your best bet pound for pound.

[Meatcaber]

 

 

Assault Squad Sergeants can't take Combi-weapons, so it would be 8 shots from your two Assault Squads. For 212 points with jump packs or 254 points if you run them in the Rhino.

 

 

Did not realise Assault Sergeants couldn't take combi-weapons, that makes them a little less effective, I guess.

 

CV's do seem the most point efficient and can take the most combi-weapons in a single squad. Don't want to de-rail the thread though.

 

Tac's do seem decent if you want to fill up a few troops for a Battalion and will have a few ablative wounds before getting to the good stuff. The thing with CPs is you need some to make your more effective units more effective, whether through a re-roll of a critical dice or using a stratagem, CPs are generally good to have and you'll generate a decent amount by filling up a few Tac squads in Rhino's or Razorbacks... So they're not totally worthless. 

[Karhedron]

Once our Codex drops and we get BA-specific stratagems, I imagine we will definitely want more CPs to make use of them.

[Panzer]

CPs and ObSec are valid points, however we have the same problem as CSM have. If you want those things, just take Scouts (Cultists for them which is an even more obvious choice), if you want special/heavy weapons take Devastators (Havocs for them) or, since loyalists have the option of Stormshields on their veterans, Vanguard Veterans/Company Veterans.

 

Imo Tacticals only really have a place in an army if you don't care that much about min-maxing. So basically for fluff reasons or because you already own the models and don't want to use them as a different unit.

[tychobi]

What about a sort of Rhino rush idea using Tacticals or even Assault marines for extra special weapons?

 

We can put two 5 man squads in a Rhino, if going Tacs or Assault that's 2 or 3 special weapon per squad, or 4 to 6 per Rhino. We could even put a squad of melta and a squad of plasma in a Rhino to add a bit of versatility for taking on different targets. As the OP said, I think Tacs would work (marginally) better for Ultramarines and Assault would work better for us because we can take plasma and melta in our assault squads. 

 

The idea of putting an all flamer Tac squad in a Rhino appeals to me, sure they would be better with ObSec, they're not so much of a threat but with a little luck you can put them where you need them and they would have a reasonable amount of dakka if within 8" and 3d6 overwatch auto-hits if they get charged. 

 

Someone mentioned this already. For a Battalion we could take two 5 man Tac squads, with dual special weapons to taste, shove both squads in a Rhino, take a unit of Scouts, add a couple of HQ's to taste and we have a fairly cheap Battalion detachment. Sure it might not be game-breaking but for what we're getting I think it's not a bad deal. Again, probably better with Ultramarines. 

 

Back way at the beginning of 7th before I stopped playing, I frequently ran 5 man assault squads with 2 plasmaguns in Rhino's despite a lot of people saying I was doing it wrong. Admittedly, it was mainly because our Rhino's were free back then and you could rapid fire from the hatch (something we still have?). I still have the units and would like to use them, only now I can put both squads with combiplasmas in a single Rhino. That's 12 plasmashots in rapid fire range. 

 

I'm not ready to completely dismiss Tactical squads quite yet. 

Your tactics sadly have been written out of the rules in 8th.  No more shooting from hatches at all.  Razorbacks are super cheap and effective and provide the transports for some nasty aura buff parking lots.  If you want drive by's orks, dark eldar, and guard have cool options.

[durdle-durdle]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/16/the-grand-tournament-heat-1-the-roundup/

 

More razorspam than tactical spam, but this is worth noting.

[Panzer]

Worth noting yes, but I dare say the Tacticals were the last of the reasons why that list won compared to AssBacks, Guilliman and the Stormraven. ^^

[Xerxus]

I think the tacticals were in the list to get command points, but then at least half could have been scouts to block deepstrike shenanigans too. We can't leverage command points at all, no point until codex drops.

[Panzer]

To get command points and to provide some Lascannons which otherwise would've taken away from the AssBack spam. A pretty niche role that worked specifically for this kind of list.

[Grazcruzk]

Is it worth considering HQs that would be in the same list? If you can use FW units I would toot the Malakim Phoros horn for his rerolls on all failed wound rolls. It could make good use of heavy flamer/flamer tacs in transports. That said, it is a good buff all around and I'm not sure it would make tacs the go-to option. He is pointy, also.