CCCP IV: Poll Thread and Initial Discussion (The Taurans)

[Conn Eremon]

Celebrants gets my vote on this list, but Marauders is a close second choice.

[Minigiant]

Libators Interested to see how we distinguish the chalice from that of the blood angels, or how we create an Ultramarine Blood Angel crossover

[Draakur]

Only thing keeping me from jumping on the Marauders is how disappointing it would be to have a big project like this basically made void via canon. I know I know, we can make up our own headcanon/decide it's the same Chapter at a different time/decide it's referencing an alternate timeline altogether/decide it's another Chapter called the Marauders, etc. I personally struggle with these lines of thinking and like to stick within canon as much as I'm able, being true to the spirit of GWS intended universe.

[Sun Reaver]

Solid list; I am excited to work on whichever chapter is selected. Celebrants seem to be winning, however my top 3 are as the following: 

 

1. Brotherhood of a Thousand

2. Libators

3. Tauran Chapter

[Kelborn]

Though I'd love to work on the Taurans and White Panthers, the concepts I had in mind for them are already scheduled for two chapters of my own: the Warbeasts and the "Black Panthers".

 

I'm not that sold of the Celebrants. Though the concept of Happy Marines could be hilarious. ^^

 

Night Watch gets my vote, in the end. Of what I have in mind, the Games of Thrones commonalities would be very limited (current and only similarity: guarding a certain area). Maybe we could turn them into allies of one of the lesser inquisitorial Ordos akin to the Deathwatch?

[Lysimachus]

Looking at the ten choices, I'm still for the Celebrants (although if it reassures anyone, I really can't see them ending up as Happy/Frat Boy Marines - in fact, without getting into too much detail, I was picturing them less as wild, SW-boisterous types and more as educated warrior-scholars who are able to be joyful because they understand their role and purpose and place in the galaxy. I also like the real world meaning of Celebrant as someone who officiates over various ceremonies and rites of passage, perhaps something to think about if we go with them. Anyway, that's getting way too far ahead of things...)

 

On the others, I'm inclined to agree with Draakur's point regarding the 2nd Founding options, there's far greater scope for our stuff being invalidated.

 

Re: the Brotherhood of a Thousand, I think it'd have to focus on the Brotherhood bit, of standing shoulder to shoulder, facing the enemies of Man. Getting too literal with the numbers feels like it would cause problems. After all, we all know that 1000 Marines is a myth, so how do you name the Marines above the 1k limit? Plus Latin number based names work when it's 6 or 7, but what about Brother 443 (Quadringenti quadrāgintā tres, I looked it up!) or 678?

 

Night Watch could be interesting, as long as we don't go GoT.

 

TL,DR: Celebrants!

Edited October 11, 2017 by Lysimachus

[Minigiant]

Night Watch could be interesting, as long as we don't go GoT.

 

For some reason when I think Night Watch, I think of a Chapter that has had to re-enter Stasis for a long time

[Draakur]

Other pitfalls wth the Night Watch would be Pratchett references.

 

I didn't actually say it in my last post, and I'm not sure my post before the formal listing of Chapters counts, so just to be clear: My vote is for the Celebrants.

[Brother Cambrius]

Celebrants gets my vote. With the Night Watch, I recall them both being part of the Astartes Praeses guarding the Eye of Terror, so that could be a fun option; but it does present many pitfalls of GoT and Discworld's iterations of that name type.

 

Libators does fascinate me a touch. I'm pretty sure I read something a long long time ago that they used Storm Bolters instead of the Boltgun.

 

All in all though, the Celebrants have my final say, as with all the grimdark of the new era with the Cicatrix Maledictum, we need some uplifting content. Perhaps. Maybe. :P

 

Cambrius

Edited October 11, 2017 by Brother Cambrius

[Olis]

Here's a thing that has tumbled out of my head while eating dinner: Have you considered what the Celebrants, psychopaths much like their other brethren, actually do to earn their name? What would psychopaths, not only with reinforced thought processes by psycho-conditioning and hypno-suggestion but a singular purpose and a violent raison d'etre, spend their time? 

 

What is joy to a psychopath? What is worth celebrating to people that literally live to kill and be killed?

[Draakur]

Here's a thing that has tumbled out of my head while eating dinner: Have you considered what the Celebrants, psychopaths much like their other brethren, actually do to earn their name? What would psychopaths, not only with reinforced thought processes by psycho-conditioning and hypno-suggestion but a singular purpose and a violent raison d'etre, spend their time? 

 

What is joy to a psychopath? What is worth celebrating to people that literally live to kill and be killed?

We've struck Grimdark folks! I like this line of thought actually...

[Brother Cambrius]

Damnit, Grimdark always finds a way. :lol:

 

Cambrius

[Kelborn]

That is a very thin line to cross towards Slaanesh, right?

[Draakur]

Hmm not necessarily? I think followers of all the powers (or indeed of any cause) "celebrate" their values and mission in their own ways. I don't know that finding obvious joy in a particular way of living is necessarily a Slaaneshi aspect.

 

My initial thoughts on the idea of the Celebrants is a Chapter who honours all efforts to the good of the Imperial cause, specifically through ritual and ceremony. They might raise memorials on planets they've conquered, make speeches post-battle honouring the sacrifices of the forces involved, etc.

 

Is it too early to be talking about this stuff? If so my apologies. I realise we haven't even chosen a final Chapter yet...

[Olis]

It's okay. I've hung back on a thought or two, seeing as we have yet to choose. Another Chapter may very well pip the Celebrants to the post. :)

[Nomus Sardauk]

I'm deeply pleased by the brainstorming that's already going on for the Celebrants and how to GRIMDARK^tm-ify their cheer, so needless to say I'm sticking by my vote for them previously. :)

[Qkhitai]

I also like the real world meaning of Celebrant as someone who officiates over various ceremonies and rites of passage, perhaps something to think about if we go with them. 

 

Well celebrants in the real world aren't limited to officiating 'happy' ceremonies either, they preside over burials and funerals too. Given their colour scheme and the flame colours, maybe they could preside over cremations or something. They could be astartes undertakers, if we're talking grimdark. I'm a little concerned we're taking their 'cheer' or 'joy' as written already - I think it's the stranger of the two readings of the word celebrant in this context. But if people want to go with them because they might be more cheerful or joyful, then I'll be quiet 

[Minigiant]

 

I also like the real world meaning of Celebrant as someone who officiates over various ceremonies and rites of passage, perhaps something to think about if we go with them. 

 

Well celebrants in the real world aren't limited to officiating 'happy' ceremonies either, they preside over burials and funerals too. Given their colour scheme and the flame colours, maybe they could preside over cremations or something. They could be astartes undertakers, if we're talking grimdark. I'm a little concerned we're taking their 'cheer' or 'joy' as written already - I think it's the stranger of the two readings of the word celebrant in this context. But if people want to go with them because they might be more cheerful or joyful, then I'll be quiet 

 

 

I think this combines very well with Olis' thoughts

[Kelborn]

 

I also like the real world meaning of Celebrant as someone who officiates over various ceremonies and rites of passage, perhaps something to think about if we go with them. 

 

Well celebrants in the real world aren't limited to officiating 'happy' ceremonies either, they preside over burials and funerals too. Given their colour scheme and the flame colours, maybe they could preside over cremations or something. They could be astartes undertakers, if we're talking grimdark. I'm a little concerned we're taking their 'cheer' or 'joy' as written already - I think it's the stranger of the two readings of the word celebrant in this context. But if people want to go with them because they might be more cheerful or joyful, then I'll be quiet 

 

 

Somehow I now see them as a Salamanders successor... without emphasizing too much on flames, this could be become interesting. :)

[Olis]

 

 

I also like the real world meaning of Celebrant as someone who officiates over various ceremonies and rites of passage, perhaps something to think about if we go with them. 

 

Well celebrants in the real world aren't limited to officiating 'happy' ceremonies either, they preside over burials and funerals too. Given their colour scheme and the flame colours, maybe they could preside over cremations or something. They could be astartes undertakers, if we're talking grimdark. I'm a little concerned we're taking their 'cheer' or 'joy' as written already - I think it's the stranger of the two readings of the word celebrant in this context. But if people want to go with them because they might be more cheerful or joyful, then I'll be quiet 

 

 

I think this combines very well with Olis' thoughts

 

I would just like to say that although my train of thought may be taking the 'celebration' from the term 'Celebrant' slightly literally, I would posit that this could/should merely be a facet of their overall character, not their character in its entirety. :)

[Commissar Molotov]

Whilst the Celebrants certainly seem like our front-runner, perhaps our next step as a project should be eliminating some of the concepts we don't want. A way to do that would be to see if anyone can come up with any interesting or worthy concepts or angles from which to approach our other nine candidates? That way, we can remove the ones that we can't do anything with. We may end up simply with the Celebrants, but we might perhaps be able to do something with one of the other Chapters. 

 

I would love to hear what you can come up with! 

[Draakur]

This is actually a great idea - exploring some of the options in the others is a good way to open this up more and be sure we get the most from the project.

 

I liked your mention of perhaps trying something with the Taurans that differentiated them from the Minotaurs. The thematic base has a lot of potential I think, was there anything specific you had in mind there?

[Lysimachus]

Hmm, good suggestion again. There are probably ways to go with any of the 10 Chapters listed...

 

 

Libators: If we went with these guys, I'd personally really want to avoid any possible connection with the Blood Angels. They're Ultras, after all. But why the name? Libation is an interesting ritual, pouring out a drink offering (often on the ground) to a God/Gods. Perhaps an offering to the Emperor/Primarch for success on each world they fight on? What could they pour out? Historically, libations seem to be all sorts of liquids; milk, alcohol, water... Maybe if we wanted to focus on their heritage, it could be water from Hera's Falls (in the valley where the UM Fortress Monastery is based)?

 

Exemplars: Not really got much of an idea here, with my only thought being that their Chapter badge looks reminiscent of the White Scars badge. Perhaps a WS Successor fighting against the inherent savagery of their nature in order to stick to the ideals of the Codex?

 

Not really sure on Marauders, how to make them more than differently coloured WS? Maybe change their recruiting pool (and resulting Chapter culture)? More technologically advanced? Maybe even voidborn/fleet based?

Edited October 14, 2017 by Lysimachus

[Commissar Molotov]

Regarding the Exemplars, I thought something very similar to you - that they might be a White Scars successor that fights according to the Codex. Similarly to the Blood Drinkers, who are said to be strict followers of the Codex Astartes rather than adhering to typical Blood Angels trappings. Of course, a lot of DIY creators will say that the Codex is boring, or feel that it plays in to the Mat Ward-esque ideas about the Ultramarines being the 'spiritual liege of all Chapters' - and yet, it creates a tension between their feral nature and heritage and the nobler warriors they are trying to be. Perhaps there are times their unrestrained fury has broken free and shown that they're not quite the Exemplars they are trying to be. 

 

I like your ideas regarding the Libators. It could be perhaps that their ritual stems from before the founding, or even during the wars for the 500 Worlds, when they thought they were going to die? Perhaps I have a tendency to create grim, fatalistic Chapters. I like the idea of blessing each battlefield they fight upon, consecrating it for the Imperium and Guilliman - though that would be interesting if they ever fought on a daemonworld. 

 

At the moment I'm not mad about the Halo Dragons - perhaps we could do something with them operating in the Halo Zone, but I'm not sure what we could do with them that would make them interesting and distinctive. 

 

The Night Watch have potential as a force that shows the nature of the Space Marines as guardians against the dark. We could look at them being noble warriors - perhaps the reason that they have a non-codex structure is that they're spread out across many worlds trying to defend them - or perhaps we could look at the idea tat they pit themselves against monsters and they have become monsters themselves, willingly sacrificing the citizenry of the Imperium in order to save the worlds of the Imperium. Perhaps the red skull on their heraldry is a mark of censure/shame - perhaps they have been warned by the High Lords or forced to embark upon a Penitence Crusade. 

 

The Tauran - unusual name. They are bullish, they have chosen to take on the icon of the bull. Perhaps they are stubborn, hard-headed. Imperial Fist successors? Part of me thinks to ideas of Knights, though not in an Arthurian sense. I imagine their Chapter Champion with a horned helmet. A Chapter whose brothers duel to resolve issues, and who maintain their position through force of arms. Perhaps a Chapter of 'monster hunters', a Chapter that constantly pledges itself to the fiercest and harshest campaigns. A Chapter committed to the idea of 'strength through strife.' A Chapter that, when the Tyranids appeared, were overjoyed - they had a true, implacable enemy against which to pit themselves. Somehow I imagine them tearing through Tyranid hive-ships. There's an element for me imagining them as Klingon Space Marines. 

[Kelborn]

I love youe suggestion regarding the Night Watch and the Taurans.

 

Had something similar on mind for the NW.

 

Taurans, though, were somehow an African theme tribe, making use of Shakas horned bull tactics and reforms in my mind. Combined with your beast hunter-ish Knights, this could be really cool!

 

Further, I can also imagine them being a Dark Angels successor. Stubborn, unorthodox, knight-ish along potential secrets and some shrouded parts in their history. And you got me with Klingon Marines.;)

 

Some blood rituals could be fitting as well!

Edited October 15, 2017 by Kelborn