Claws and Effect Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) Okay, I'm officially signed up for a 3 round tournament on the 21st. It's sort of a trial run for the larger tournament the group runs in June. I have my army more or less set in stone. Keep in mind, my army consists of pretty much everything I have ready to go. I have to finish the Whirlwind, Callidus assassin, and Inquisitor (old metal Grey Knight Captain Stern ). With my work schedule, I don't really have time to do much more than that. The tourney organizers require a strict paint standard of 3 color minimum (and no, Plastic Grey is not a color. I asked ). Oh, and detachments cannot repeat, so I can't form my Elites into another Vanguard for another CP. So, since I haven't played so much as a single game since 4th or 5th edition, how would my more experienced brethren play the following army? The set up is a Battalion and a Vanguard for 7 CP. The Inquisitor and Assassins make up the Vanguard, keyword Imperium. The remainder are all Raven Guard in a Battalion detachment. Shrike will be the Warlord, because I seriously doubt he would let an Inquisitor boss him around. My basic plan is: SFTS Shrike and the Vanguard together, and the Sternguard somewhere else. Shrike will take an active role in eliminating overwatch for the Vanguard. Can't shoot at him and once he's stuck in can't shoot at all. The two Devastator squads will be set up with the best field of fire I can find, with the plasma squad a little father forward due to shorter range weapons. The Captain will hang out with them to hopefully prevent 'splodey Marines. The Whirlwind will be planted behind LOS blocking terrain and hopefully won't have to move at all the whole game. 72" range missiles that don't require LOS should make that easy enough. Infiltrate the sniper Scouts on top of an objective, hopefully in cover. One of the Tactical squads will catch a ride in the Raven along with the Dread. The other Tactical squad will grab an objective. The Stormraven is set up for dakka (sadly I had to drop the hurricane bolters due to point constraints), and will probably strafe infantry with its guns after dropping off passengers, and maybe take a pot shot at some armor with its missiles. I'm a little concerned about not having enough anti-armor, but I can't really help that with the state of my collection right now. Here's the list: ++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [14 PL, 235pts] +++ Elites +Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 80pts]Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 85pts]Eversor Assassin [4 PL, 70pts]++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Imperium - Inquisition) [7 PL, 105pts] +++ HQ +Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in Terminator Armour [7 PL, 105pts]: Force sword, Psyker, Storm bolter++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [88 PL, 1659pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard+ HQ +Captain [5 PL, 77pts]: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun, The Armour IndomitusKayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 150pts]+ Troops +Scout Squad [6 PL, 111pts]: 5x Camo cloak. Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifleTactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]. 3x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolterTactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]. 3x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter+ Elites +Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannonSternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 169pts]. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-flamer. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-flamer. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-melta. Space Marine Veteran w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer. Veteran Sergeant: Combi-melta, Power fistVanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 167pts]: Jump Pack. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: Power axe, Storm shield. Space Marine Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield. Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade, Storm shield+ Heavy Support +Devastator Squad [8 PL, 140pts]. Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcherDevastator Squad [8 PL, 164pts]. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-plasma. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannonWhirlwind [5 PL, 100pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher+ Flyer +Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 266pts]: Twin assault cannon, Twin heavy bolter, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers++ Total: [109 PL, 1999pts] ++Created with BattleScribe Edited October 4, 2017 by Claws and Effect duz_ 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo1701 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Both devastator squads in the Shadows too. As you are light on drops, the benefit is adapting your deployment to your opponent's later moves. I've found that particularly effective. I would also support your forward elements otherwise they will get cut to shreds without support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 C&E: Several things stand out to me here. 1. Your comment about not shooting at Shrike and "once he's stuck in, can't shoot at all." Just be really careful about what you decide to go after here. All your opponent needs do is fall back with that unit (whatever one Shrike and/or Vanguard charged) and then it's open season on your Chapter Master. Once your engaged on the enemy's battle line, it doesn't take too much jiggering to make your character the closest target. And, at the end of the day, Shrike is T4 with 3+/4++. It will only take about 2 Lascannons + a command point to mulch him. 2. Others have said, and I generally agree, you're losing a lot of utility and point efficiency by swapping out your 2 pt special issue boltgun for 11 pt. combi flamers. I realize this is your anti-horde unit, but the added fact that you will be STFS them to get them into flamer range also means, to me at least, they are going to take a lot of shooting really fast, and it's going to be close enough to deny you the RG chapter tactic. I personally think your long range missile launchers and plasma will kill more horde than your up close sternguard. 3. Infiltrate Scout Snipers? I've yet to see a scenario where infiltrating my scout snipers was a good choice. Snipers need to be faaaaaaar away (which, generally and with most deployment types, means deep in your own deployment zone). The beauty of scout snipers, as I have seen it so far, is that the mortal wound threat means they will draw a lot of aggro; moreso than they actually deserve. No one likes being denied their armor/invuln save. Keep them as far away as possible (but still within shooting range) to take advantage of denying los, cover, and your RG chapter tactic. Putting them close is just asking for them to be killed quick and easy. Use that mortal wound threat to your advantage and kite your opponent with it, if and where possible. If you want an objective hopper, take a cheap unit of regular scouts that you don't mind getting plowed. In general, the most success I've had so far with RG is as a strong, far-ranged shooting platform to leverage our chapter tactic as long as possible, with a couple of (depending on game size) counter-assault units hanging back to slaughter anyone getting close enough to threaten that shooting base. STFS makes a better deployment-threat pyschological weapon (remind your opponent of it to mess with their deployment :-) than, in my opinion, an actual useful alpha strike platform (unless you are going ALL IN! with STFS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I totally get the constraints of painting and trying to get in under the wire for an event (and the constraints of funds). So my question is, what do you have that is NOT in the above list that is painted, and do you have anything else that is assembled/nearly painted that you could put your energy towards instead of the inquisitor, etc. iirc, you had some ASMs, a Chaplain, Techmarine, some more scouts, and some speeders, right? If you have a list of "available substitutes" I think I can offer better suggestions. Also don't forget to include anything non-Raven Guard as well. If were exploring a Vanguard detachment with assassins, any options in that detachment will be helpful too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 Okay, here is what I have ready to go that is not already in the list: 18 Assault Marines (all 3 sgts have PFs, 2 flamers between them and 4 plasma pistols, 2 Sgts also have plasma. 5 CC Scouts. 2 Land Speeder Tempests (these will not be used in this particular list because I can't find 300 points for them and I don't have their rules yet) i also have 2 more random dudes. 1 with a bolter, 1 with a plasma gun. That's pretty much it. I could probably scrape together another Devastator Squad out of models in mid build with some combination of missile launchers and lascannons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 Also, I looked at my Sternguard and said "Why not equip them for close range, blast something, and then follow up with a charge?" I'm not afraid to stick my Sternguard into melee, and the firepower they have followed up by a charge should threaten quite a bit. There is also the fact that the squad was modeled before I knew combi-weapons were losing the Special Issue Ammo ability, and I really don't want to tear them apart and remodel them at this time. I suppose I could leave the Sternguard out altogether and use the points for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 you can't just use them as 'counts as'? Because you're also giving up that sweet +1 wound stratagem for Sternies :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 I'll have to clarify that with the TO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 If the TO says you can use them as just regular Bolters (personally I feel that's fine, I never have a problem with over-modeled units, just under modeled, in this case). That can free up points for your hurricane bolters on the SR as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 Okay, I really wanted the Assassins, but I had to compromise when I realized I had another unit I really wanted to add. So I ditched them for this one. Hope I don't run into a lot of psykers. One of the other rules of the tournament is you can have 0-1 Forge World units. So, I decided to add the big guns. I finished assembling my Fire Raptor last night, and it just needs paint to be table ready. :) 10 Avenger Bolt Cannon shots plus 24 heavy bolter shots and 4 hellstrike missile shots per turn should be plenty of dakka. It should also attract plenty of attention along with my Stormraven. So, here's my new list as it currently stands. I think I covered most of the necessities for a balanced list. ++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [60 PL, 1107pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard+ HQ +Captain [5 PL, 98pts]: Master-crafted boltgun, Relic blade, The Primarch's WrathKayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 150pts]+ Troops +Scout Squad [6 PL, 111pts]: 5x Camo cloak. Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifleTactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]. 3x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolterTactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]. 3x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter+ Elites +Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannonVanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 167pts]: Jump Pack. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: Power axe, Storm shield. Space Marine Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield. Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade, Storm shield+ Flyer +Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 266pts]: Twin assault cannon, Twin heavy bolter, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [25 PL, 473pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard+ HQ +Techmarine [4 PL, 69pts]: Plasma pistol, Power axe, Servo-arm+ Heavy Support +Devastator Squad [8 PL, 140pts]. Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcherDevastator Squad [8 PL, 164pts]. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-plasma. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannonWhirlwind [5 PL, 100pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Imperium - FW Adeptus Astartes) [19 PL, 418pts] +++ Flyer +Fire Raptor Assault Gunship [19 PL, 418pts]. Two quad heavy bolters: 2x Quad heavy bolter. Two twin hellstrike launchers: 2x Twin hellstrike launcher++ Total: [104 PL, 1998pts] ++Created with BattleScribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 Okay, here's my "final" list. I did some finagling to squeeze a Culexus Assassin in an Auxiliary Support Detachment. Costs me a CP, but my previous list was utterly devoid of any defense against psykers. I have more anti-tank than my first list, and tons of anti-horde. Any issues I'm not seeing that someone else might spot? ++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Imperium - FW Adeptus Astartes) [19 PL, 418pts] +++ Flyer +Fire Raptor Assault Gunship [19 PL, 418pts]. Two quad heavy bolters: 2x Quad heavy bolter. Two twin hellstrike launchers: 2x Twin hellstrike launcher++ Auxiliary Support Detachment -1CP (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [5 PL, 85pts] +++ Elites +Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 85pts]++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [60 PL, 1091pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard+ HQ +Captain [5 PL, 77pts]: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun, The Armour IndomitusKayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 150pts]+ Troops +Scout Squad [6 PL, 111pts]: 5x Camo cloak. Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifleTactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]. 3x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolterTactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts]. 3x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter+ Elites +Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannonVanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 172pts]: Jump Pack, Melta bombs. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: Power axe, Storm shield. Space Marine Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield. Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade, Storm shield+ Flyer +Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 266pts]: Twin assault cannon, Twin heavy bolter, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [25 PL, 405pts] +++ No Force Org Slot +**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard+ HQ +Techmarine [4 PL, 62pts]: Boltgun, Power axe, Servo-arm+ Heavy Support +Devastator Squad [8 PL, 128pts]. Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannonDevastator Squad [8 PL, 115pts]. 2x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: LascannonWhirlwind [5 PL, 100pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher++ Total: [109 PL, 1999pts] ++Created with BattleScribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I like the list. I personally wouldn't bother with the second detachment and the Techmarine. I would just migrate the heavy hitters into the main list, up them to 4x weapons each. Id get Hurricane Bolters on the Stormraven. I would also consider dropping the Whirlwind for a Lieutenant to go with the Dev firebase if you can come up with a suitable model. One thing to remember is that if you don't want to spend a CP to SFTS him, you can either give him a jump pack, or toss him/the captain in the Stormraven and drop them off at your leisure. While I love the model/nature of the Whirlwind, mine has performed like garbage thus far this edition. For the points, a Twin Assault Cannon will outperform it, every game. Now a Whirlwind Scorpius is a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 The second detachment is mostly to provide an extra CP that is getting eaten by including the Culexus by himself. My main reason for not upping the Dev Squads to 4 each is that is literally what I have ready to go. I'd have to assemble and paint models if I want to add more heavy weapons. Since my Fire Raptor and Whirlwind need paint, that will likely be eating up all my hobby time until the tournament. 3 color minimum paint job on something the size of a Fire Raptor is a daunting prospect when you have 2 weeks and 2 jobs. I could probably drop the Techy and just run with 5 CP. That would let me add that missile launcher back into the second Dev Squad and the hurricane bolters (that I'd have to physically add to the model) to the Stormraven. I REALLY want to keep that Culexus in there. There is a very good chance I will run into Magnus or Mortarion in this tourney, and I'm not inclined to give them free reign over the psychic phase if I can help it. A Culexus isn't much, but it's better than the nothing I'd have otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Makes sense. I wasn't aware you would need to build/paint the devs and hurricane bolters. Stick with your gameplan, and get back to work, stop wasting time talking to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 Plus I don't recall offhand if I need to have another detachment to have 2 Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 Alright, I rethought my list. I dropped the Whirlwind. I would have liked to keep it, but points were an issue and the Fire Raptor can fill the horde deletion role nicely I think. Replaced it with a 3 man squad of Company Vets with 2 plasma guns and a combi-plasma on the sergeant. They will escort a Captain and benefit from rerolling 1s for overcharging. Swapped my Devastator Squad into 3 lascannons and a missile launcher (for flakk), instead of the 4 plasma cannons I had before. Since I dropped the Whirlwind I don't need to get the model finished just yet and can put time into lascannon dudes. I added a Lieutenant with Raven's Fury and a pair of lightning claws. He'll probably hang out in the vicinity of the Dev squad until he needs to murder something, in which case his extended threat range from Raven's Fury will come in handy. His rerolls to wound are wasted on himself with the lightning claws already having that built in, but I don't have another model to represent him (using my Murderwings model). Anything I'm overlooking? New list: ++ Auxiliary Support Detachment -1CP (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [5 PL, 85pts] ++ + Elites + Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 85pts] ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [36 PL, 542pts] ++ + HQ + Captain [5 PL, 81pts]: Master-crafted boltgun, Power sword + Elites + Company Veterans [8 PL, 101pts]. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma gun. Veteran Sergeant: Combi-plasma, Power fist Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannon Vanguard Veteran Squad [15 PL, 195pts]: Jump Pack. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Space Marine Veteran: Power axe, Storm shield. Space Marine Veteran: Power fist, Storm shield. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw. Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade, Storm shield ++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [55 PL, 955pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard + HQ + Kayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 150pts] Lieutenants [5 PL, 90pts]. Lieutenant: Jump Pack, 2x Lightning Claw, Raven's Fury + Troops + Scout Squad [6 PL, 111pts]: 5x Camo cloak. Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Sniper rifle. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher. 3x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 3x Sniper rifle Tactical Squad [5 PL, 80pts]. 3x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Melta bombs. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter Tactical Squad [5 PL, 80pts]. 3x Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Melta bombs. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter + Heavy Support + Devastator Squad [11 PL, 178pts]. Space Marine. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher + Flyer + Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 266pts]: Twin assault cannon, Twin heavy bolter, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers ++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Imperium - FW Adeptus Astartes) [19 PL, 418pts] ++ + Flyer + Fire Raptor Assault Gunship [19 PL, 418pts]. Two quad heavy bolters: 2x Quad heavy bolter. Two twin hellstrike launchers: 2x Twin hellstrike launcher ++ Total: [115 PL, 2000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Quick question, can we use multiple STFS ? Thought matched was limited to one stratagem per phase ? Deployment works differently ? Shadow Captain Vyper 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Quick question, can we use multiple STFS ? Thought matched was limited to one stratagem per phase ? Deployment works differently ? Correct. Since it doesn't happen during "a single phase", since deployment isn't a phase, it is allowed. Strategic Discipline (pg 215) specifically mentions that things 'before the battle begins' are not included. GreyCrow 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 That is frigging nice! Totally misread this! This is a serious upgrade vs other chapters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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