The Emperor protects - a Codex: AM review

[WarriorFish]

The Index still provides so they haven't gone just yet - I suggest everyone joins me in talking about Rough Riders all the time to any GW staffer who will listen (and I think they have to listen; it's in their contract )...

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Mate you can still run them as in the Index and they still benefit from Regimental Doctrines, they're just not put in the Codex itself because they don't have models. 

 

 

The Index still provides so they haven't gone just yet - I suggest everyone joins me in talking about Rough Riders all the time to any GW staffer who will listen (and I think they have to listen; it's in their contract )...

 

Is this official from GW that we can use units from the Index if they're not included in the Codex?

 

If so, then I am much happier ... 

[duz_]

Yes they've said this multiple times, particularly when the SM codex dropped as they lost a lot of units. 

[WarriorFish]

That has been so since the first codex release (C:SM - Chaplain on bike in particular) :) It's not as good as a new codex entry of course but is better than them dropping off the planet. Hopefully they can return with new models soon but we shall see as always.

 

I will be getting a 2k points game in later this month with my Guard so I hope to read some more input here about new bits and bobs. I'm thinking of trying out the new and improved Baneblade (or variant), maybe the Bassies can also come out to play :) In particular use of our fancy new relics sounds interesting, should be possible to really stock up on Command Points and go to town. I've been a bit slow on taking advantage of Stratagems beyond a few but looks like I need to put some more time into remembering them.

[FallenSoldiers]

I played a game last week using the new rules. I started with 12 command points and between the relic to "steal" CPs and the WL trait to get them back on a 5+ I think I used 18 in total.

 

I played against an CSM player playing Alpha Legion, the vengeance for Cadia stratagem was a lot of fun when I had 30 Catachan conscripts backed by Straken charging into his terminator blob!

[duz_]

The WL trait about getting the back is great

Don't do what I did though! I was only rolling to claim back 1 CP per Stratagem, its actually roll for EACH CP you use!! 

[FallenSoldiers]

The relic one is only 1 CP no matter how many they use though, correct?

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Yes they've said this multiple times, particularly when the SM codex dropped as they lost a lot of units.

Excellent, thanks. Shows how long I've been out of action that I didn't even hear that. This is good news indeed. Now if only my White Scar pot hadn't dried up during my hiatus I'd be able to finish a few troopers today.

[Harrowmaster]

The relic one is only 1 CP no matter how many they use though, correct?

 

It is, would probably be broken if it was per CP, as it's easily combined with the trait

[Bonzi]

I think a sleeper hit of the dex is Astropaths. Dirt cheap and can negate cover on an enemy unit in 18". Their smite may be toned down, but they cast their other power and deny on a regular 2d6. Guard have access to some very cheap psychic defense this way. Plus who care if their smite is weak, give them pyshic maelstrom for a reliable 3+ mortal wounds per cast.

[Withershadow]

Hi, just responding in the spirit of being helpful.

 

The "Earthshaker Battery" (I totally know what you mean, I'm just going by how it's written in the book) does lack both the Vehicle and Building keyword.  And now that you mention it, I feel it's NOT a print error/accident, I do think it's on purpose to tone it down a little.  It's like it's deliberately cheap so that it can't interact with Tank Commander orders, for that you want to get the Basilisk (same gun, but it's actually on a Vehicle, and thus gets the keyword).  On the other hand the Earthshaker Battery still has the <REGIMENT> keyword so it can get the Regimental Doctrines.

 

The Cyclops is curious, and just as the Earthshaker Battery compares with the Basilisk, the Cyclops compares with the Manticore with its 4 rockets, except it doesn't have to roll to hit, it just has to get there.  Since the Manticore can only fire 1 per turn on a 4+, a Cyclops might be worth considering.  When I started playing and watching games of 8th, I did note maybe Vehicle explosions are something that needs to be accounted for, in that it can swing the balance of games.  It might be a deterrent against rush armies.  It's an odd tool in the toolbox, for sure.  I might give it the Armageddon Regimental Doctrine just to help it survive until it makes contact.

 

Vewy indredasting.

It's more than likely an error.  If you look at the Manticore battery, the only other battery in the book, it does have the vehicle keyword.  I do think it would be a good balancing factor for the batteries, because otherwise they are just undercosted and way too superior to all other variants.  However, FW being the most sloppy and half-assed of all of the GW umbrella companies, it's most likely just a typo.  Good for now, though.

 

Also, please double check how Tank Commander orders work... they ONLY work for Leman Russ tanks, period. The only change that occurred to Tank Commanders is now they work on character tanks.  The purpose of a TANK commander remains ordering tanks, not immobile automated artillery emplacements.

 

The lack of vehicle keyword on the battery is important for stratagems and doctrines.  Just having the Regiment keyword doesn't mean anything, it may have the Doctrine in a battle-forged army, but since it is neither an infantry nor a vehicle, the Doctrine doesn't do anything at all for it.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Withershadow

[Feral_80]

Cadian doctrine works perfectly well on batteries (which are 'Artillery'), since it works on all units generically. And it's the perfect doctrine for them: reroll 1s if you don't move...which is quite likely to happen for an immobile unit. They would not benefit from a Catachan (or any other) doctrine reroll of hits, but the Cadian one is more than fine for them.

 

So yes, at the moment batteries are still quite powerful despite having limited access to buffs, because they still get one of the best ones.

[Withershadow]

Cadians and Vostroyans are the two Regimental Doctrines that aren't keyed to vehicles.

[Halfpint100]

Cadians and Vostroyans are the two Regimental Doctrines that aren't keyed to vehicles.

 

Cadian and vostroyans are for all units. their wording is "cadian/ vostroyan units" NOT infantry. Apart from the infantry re-rolling all hits with the order for cadians. that doesn't stack with tanks.

 

I do agree with Bonzi though. my 15pt astropath is going to follow pask and give him -1 to be hit

Edited October 9, 2017 by Halfpint100

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Glad to hear some of the good stuff coming out of the codex, and I intend to do up a small squad Vosty rough riders.

[Schlitzaf]

So skewed prospective is skewed on my part sense I main a Black Templar list. Throwing in IG to bulk and provide auxiliary support to the rest of my list. But writing up a finalization version of my list post-IG Dex (only waiting now, if Deathriders are changed. For the foreseeable future my army is in a ‘completed’ state of existence).

 

I was thinking, beside standard Gulliman and Celestine fun times. What armies provide the most mechanical help to an IG list. Instead of the other way around with the new Codex. The most salient thing beside Scions, Knife and Tallern (as well Scout Setinals And Rat infiltration), the IG army is ‘relatively static’. While you have Chimeras, Tauros and Valkayrie which are not to be discounted, in terms of providing ‘counter’ reserves instead of Alpha Strike, you have to start everything on Board.

 

Making me feel Fast Combat Strikes like ASM (yes I know ASM have their own issues, vs Vang). My prospective is skewed due to how I use my Gaurd, and maybe I am underestimating effective or fast a unit like Ogyrns could move. Or a Chimera’s durability. But I tangented beside the obvious.

 

Now we have the Codex and some idea of the units and vulnerabilities. What armies mechanically shore up a Gaurds armies weakness instead of being shores up by Gaurd?

[Withershadow]

^I have a very hard time understanding what is being said here.

 

I don't think Guard really need anybody else to shore up their weaknesses.  We have multiple solid melee options, and our superheavy tanks are better than most big monsters for the points.  If anything, bringing outside forces means you need to put them in a separate detachment to maintain doctrine bonuses, so they just take away from the strength of a guard list.  I could see bringing a Space Marine flight wing for some aggressive flyers that aren't transports, but beyond that I have a hard time thinking of anything Guard needs.  Between the Codex and FW Index, we have a LOT of options.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Withershadow

[Mitchverr]

BTW, whats the point in autoguns in veteran squads? Is there some hidden thing there or is it for a fluff (and self crippling for orders) thing? Because its same stats, but you cant first rank etc.

 

Something missed?

[Withershadow]

Fluff. Some regiments use autoguns instead of lasguns. Yeah technically sucks for orders but I'd let them count as lasguns since the stats are identical. The more interesting option are the shotguns.

[Bonzi]

Another hidden gem is the Ogryn Bodyguards. On a 3+ they can take a mortal wound in place of a characters wound. ANY unit with keyword 'Character'. Walk one behind Pask or a regular tank commander to add 6 extra wounds to your command Russ before they reduce effectiveness or die. Lol.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I would call total BS on that if I was playing against you, and would probably then decline to play you for trying to abuse the crap out of the rules when you know good and well it makes no sense. 

[mertbl]

It sounded like you were saying the tank commander could order other non leman russ pattern tanks.

 

 

 

 

Coffeegrunt - tank commanders only order leman russ tanks.

 

I didn't mention Leman Russ tanks?

[Withershadow]

Another hidden gem is the Ogryn Bodyguards. On a 3+ they can take a mortal wound in place of a characters wound. ANY unit with keyword 'Character'. Walk one behind Pask or a regular tank commander to add 6 extra wounds to your command Russ before they reduce effectiveness or die. Lol.

If you're going to park them behind the tank where they are unlikely to be shot, I'd probably just bring Nork in that case.  He is a bit more squishy when targeted directly, but functions the same vs mortal wounds while succeeding to catch bullets on a 2+.  It's a silly rules interaction, but there it is.

[CoffeeGrunt]

It sounded like you were saying the tank commander could order other non leman russ pattern tanks.

 

But I literally never mentioned Leman Russes, Tank Commanders or Tank Orders. Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else?

[Bonzi]

I would call total BS on that if I was playing against you, and would probably then decline to play you for trying to abuse the crap out of the rules when you know good and well it makes no sense.

It's tourney legal until it's faq'd, which it likely will be. You are free to pic your opponents.

 

Applying 'what makes sense' to 40k is a lost cause. Is it more reasonable that the ogryn bodyguard is gonna catch that lascannon shot moving at the speed of light that was aimed at his commander?

Edited October 9, 2017 by duz_
Removed unnecessary comments