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8th Edition Grey Knights.


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#1
Dremiah

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Has there yet been a comprehensive guide written/posted yet for Grey Knights for 8th Edition?

#2
Godeskian

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Not that I know if, though 1d4chan has a pretty good rundown.

The basics are Strike Knights, Paladins, GMNDK, Apothecaries and Stormravens
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#3
Gentlemanloser

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Keep half on board. Deep strike the rest.

Pew pew chaff with storm bolters backed by rerolls.

Smite everything, every turn.

Charge as much as possible.

That's GK in 8th. ;)
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QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#4
Adeptus

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Our best units are GMNDK, Apothecaries, Paladins and Strike Squads, basically in that order.

But the important thing to remember is that none of our units are actually bad in this edition so far. You won't be losing games because you took Terminators for troops instead of Strike Squads, or because you left the Apothecary at home and took an Ancient instead. Even Purifiers and Purgators can be made useful in this edition.
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#5
Danarc

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Our best units are GMNDK, Apothecaries, Paladins and Strike Squads, basically in that order.

But the important thing to remember is that none of our units are actually bad in this edition so far. You won't be losing games because you took Terminators for troops instead of Strike Squads, or because you left the Apothecary at home and took an Ancient instead. Even Purifiers and Purgators can be made useful in this edition.

I can't agree.

First of all storm raven is one of our best units, and I don't think that pally are better than strike. Moreover some people think that strike squads are our best unit at all. So make a classification is not so easy.

 

On the other hand in our codex we have units that are really bad. DK in primis. then purgation squads are quite bad, due to our not amazing heavy weapons. Purifiers unfortunately sucks because they are, basically, overpriced strike squad without DS. 

But out worst unit is the DK. unfortunately playing DKs is a waste of point. 

In spite of this the codex is quite fun but probably, with the release of other armies codex, it will become average, exactly as happened in 7th edition. 



#6
Adeptus

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I can't agree.
First of all storm raven is one of our best units, and I don't think that pally are better than strike. Moreover some people think that strike squads are our best unit at all. So make a classification is not so easy.
 
On the other hand in our codex we have units that are really bad. DK in primis. then purgation squads are quite bad, due to our not amazing heavy weapons. Purifiers unfortunately sucks because they are, basically, overpriced strike squad without DS. 
But out worst unit is the DK. unfortunately playing DKs is a waste of point. 

In spite of this the codex is quite fun but probably, with the release of other armies codex, it will become average, exactly as happened in 7th edition.


You're right, I did forget about the Stormraven which is totally boss right now.

 

Obviously when it comes to terms like 'good' and 'bad' then it's pretty subjective, but IMO if you take all the units in the game and rank them in points efficiency, you'll end up with a bell curve graph. Some units are excellent value, and some are terrible. I don't think any of the Grey Knights units are behind the bell curve. Some of them (the GMNDK and the Apothecary) are right on the pointy end of the bell cruve (meaning they are excellent value) while others steadily crawl backwards in terms of points efficiency, but IMO none of our units are such terrible value that they fall way behind the curve. This isn't based on mathematical analysis of every unit in the game (who has time for THAT?!) but on my own observations and anecdotal evidence from others on the internet, as well as a cursory glance at units in other codexes and indexes. I don't consider any of our units, even the Dreadknight, to be a waste of points. 



#7
the jeske

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Best advice my father gave me was to always concentrate on the 10% of the best, the rest is unsavable and will be terrible, no matter how much work [extra work] you put in to it. An army made out of the best stuff will run smoother, fun to play and you can actualy learn how to play with it, and not just fight against random destribution of rolls.


"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


#8
Adeptus

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Best advice my father gave me was to always concentrate on the 10% of the best, the rest is unsavable and will be terrible, no matter how much work [extra work] you put in to it. An army made out of the best stuff will run smoother, fun to play and you can actualy learn how to play with it, and not just fight against random destribution of rolls.

 

Each to their own, of course, but I would die of boredom if I could only run 10% of my codex.


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#9
jeffersonian000

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Best advice my father gave me was to always concentrate on the 10% of the best, the rest is unsavable and will be terrible, no matter how much work [extra work] you put in to it. An army made out of the best stuff will run smoother, fun to play and you can actualy learn how to play with it, and not just fight against random destribution of rolls.


Each to their own, of course, but I would die of boredom if I could only run 10% of my codex.
So ... you died back in 3rd edition?

SJ
“And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.”
- Revelations 9:9

#10
skarn

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I get that the gmdk is much better, but the generic dk isnt that bad at all. Mine regularly does good work (i cant bring myself to field multiple grand masters in the same list, there are only 8 in the galaxy and each has his own company!).
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#11
Adeptus

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Best advice my father gave me was to always concentrate on the 10% of the best, the rest is unsavable and will be terrible, no matter how much work [extra work] you put in to it. An army made out of the best stuff will run smoother, fun to play and you can actualy learn how to play with it, and not just fight against random destribution of rolls.


Each to their own, of course, but I would die of boredom if I could only run 10% of my codex.
So ... you died back in 3rd edition?

SJ

 

 

I only started Grey Knights in 5th, and let's just say that 6th and 7th were... difficult.



#12
Gentlemanloser

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10%?

Pfft we only had 3 units in the Daemonhunters codex.

And 100% of those were unusable! :P
QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#13
the jeske

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Best advice my father gave me was to always concentrate on the 10% of the best, the rest is unsavable and will be terrible, no matter how much work [extra work] you put in to it. An army made out of the best stuff will run smoother, fun to play and you can actualy learn how to play with it, and not just fight against random destribution of rolls.


Each to their own, of course, but I would die of boredom if I could only run 10% of my codex.
So ... you died back in 3rd edition?

SJ

 

Well considering tyranids and chaos were my main armies. Yeah, I kind of did[well at the end of it. tyranids were ok in both the pre codex and post codex version of it], but JJ was chased away from w40k, tyranids got a good book. 3.5 and 4th were really good, fun to play with multiple armies too and just for events. 5th was me forcing myself to not play the same thing [see people do not know it, but locally am considered kind of fluff player] everyone else did. EC it was and 5th was horrible. After that I decided that it is better to play a fun list [counts as, other faction, power build inc asual settings] for me, then play a list that is  not fun for years. It was back at the end of 7th that I almost died. But am stubborn, so I can play at home and my friends actualy made a table that I play on [a 4x4 one, so not ideal for GW games, but am having a blast with skirmish systems] at our store. So ain't that bad in the end.

 

 

 


And 100% of those were unusable!

 

Yes and do your remember the WD article when the devs were saying that durning the design of the Demon Hunter codex, they were actually thinking about GK being a solo army, but more of an addition for characterful scenarios to other armies? By the way GW, specially under JJ did stuff like that countless. Times I remember in epic for example they realy did think that people are going to play "the Imperium" and not IG/marines/etc. the out cry was huge. So  soon after we got updates in WD to get AA whirlwinds etc Good times.


"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


#14
Reclusiarch Darius

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Too early in the meta to be making that thread ;) rest assured we'll get to it eventually. 

 

My personal opinion is that 8th edition isn't complete until the last codex is out. That will be well into next year, and basically every codex changes the game. Some in small ways (GK teach you to spread out and measure 9" bubbles around everything, or you pay for it in spades), others in truly warping fashion (Guard tank company w/Conscript wall is the current 'list to beat'). 

 

Stand outs so far for me are:

- Grandmaster DK's: Never leave home without two. They're just absurd powerhouses, both for wrecking enemy everything and making your alpha strike truly hurt. 

- Strikes: At long last worth taking, and how. Again, never leave home without 15, and I'll be experimenting with even more over time. 

- Venerable Dreads: Accurate long range fire support, and relatively well costed IMO (they could be cheaper but w/e). 

- Doomglaive: Pocket DK, again the 2+ to hit in melee is well worth the price. 'Gate' on him is essential. 

- Purgators w/psilencer: Been doing solid work so far, they just massacre infantry so well. 

- Raven: Now that Guard are so formidable with their armour skew, it feels necessary. Wish it still had Psychic Pilot like back in the good old days.

- Brother-Captain: Cheap melee powerhouse with the relic hammer, and his aura helps prevent burning out of viable targets off a Teleport Strike (its a very common problem with Smite, as you can't usually land close enough to kill more than a couple before you're out of targets). Also makes a cheap drop to throw in the backfield then 'Gate' into position. 

- Paladins: Annoying melee threat they have to kill. Will most likely retire for an Apothecary with hammer soon. 


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"Already, you exalt me for my triumphs, when I ask only that you remember me for my treacheries.
Victory is nothing more than survival. It carries no weight of honour or worth beyond what we ascribe to it.
If you wish to grow wise, learn why brothers betray brothers."

Grand Master Khyron, Eighth Brotherhood

"One unbreakable shield against the coming darkness, One last blade, forged in defiance of fate,
Let them be my legacy to the galaxy I conquered. And my final gift to the species I failed."

Inscription upon the Arcus Daemonica, attributed to the Emperor of Mankind


#15
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I really like storm ravens, but dont know how to protect them if I go second. The amount of lascannons here in my meta is absurd... is the shield generator worth it for you guys? Or any building in general.

Edited by Zombs, 18 October 2017 - 06:46 PM.


#16
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I find the -1 to hit is usually enough to keep it in the air for a while. And if your opponent is taking crazy amounts of Lascannons, then maybe leave it at home and focus on more bodies.



#17
Reclusiarch Darius

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If you're eating that much lascannon Turn 1, I'd just bring more Venerables and hide them. Two Venerables is only like 40pts more. I haven't seen Ravens dying Turn 1 too often.

 

Terrain does help. 


"Already, you exalt me for my triumphs, when I ask only that you remember me for my treacheries.
Victory is nothing more than survival. It carries no weight of honour or worth beyond what we ascribe to it.
If you wish to grow wise, learn why brothers betray brothers."

Grand Master Khyron, Eighth Brotherhood

"One unbreakable shield against the coming darkness, One last blade, forged in defiance of fate,
Let them be my legacy to the galaxy I conquered. And my final gift to the species I failed."

Inscription upon the Arcus Daemonica, attributed to the Emperor of Mankind


#18
Kruso

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This post is from purely competitive point of view. Now if you had a small contingent of Astra Militarum for boots on the ground and command points, what is the cheesiest GK detachment you can make?

 

I'm thinking of two GMNDK, Voldus/Draigo and some apothecaries and even Paladins in a Vanguard Detachment. I'd run Strikes but I don't own much of those at the moment. What do you think?


-Heresy grows from idleness-


#19
Lord Morgrim

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Ill give it a try on the weekend but i only have the one DK  but can add voldus AND Draigo, apothoc, pallies and  3 units of strikes with a raven. Ill run it as a battalion


cheers
 
Lord Morgrim

#20
Lord Morgrim

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So i will run tonight

GMNDK-

Voldus

Draigo

5 Strikes with psycannon

5 strikes with psycannon

5 strikes with psycannon

apothecary with daemon hammer

5 man paladin squad

5 man paladin squad

Stromraven gunship

2000 pt list 

I have two games organised this weekend, one against Deathguard and the other against an unknown. Will let you know how it goes!


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cheers
 
Lord Morgrim

#21
Waking Dreamer

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So i will run tonight
GMNDK-
Voldus
Draigo
5 Strikes with psycannon
5 strikes with psycannon
5 strikes with psycannon
apothecary with daemon hammer
5 man paladin squad
5 man paladin squad
Stromraven gunship
2000 pt list 
I have two games organised this weekend, one against Deathguard and the other against an unknown. Will let you know how it goes!


Will be looking forward to it. Does the Death Guard list have Mortarion? With Draigo, Voldus and GMNDK you could have a nice brawl against the Daemon Primarch!

#22
Helycon

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All three of them should take him easily. They outweigh him by a ton of points. Draigo himself should damage him severely, Voldus an GMNDK should finish him off handily.

Good luck!

#23
Lord Morgrim

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Played maelstrom. he didnt have morty but quite a bit of daemons, two daemon princes and 3 blight drones. Lost on Vps but really killed things I got a hold of. Our smite is so crap against non daemon stuff as most times they Disgusting Resilience it away. His Weed sprayer dudes (Foul Blightspawn?) are very nasty.....against elite armies like ours they are deadly, took down a 5 paladin squad from full to dead in one turn from 2 of them.....they are scary and being characters you cant target them and they are never the closest! Over all a fun game but I cant get my GMNDK to really work well, he took down two bloat drones things which is good but he was easily destroyed by the weed sprayers!......I need to rethink my list....honestly the 5 man strike squads are just too small and i find are too easily killed. I am thinking i should just load up on Paladins and take vanguard detachment. As always the Storm Raven is gold.


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cheers
 
Lord Morgrim

#24
Reclusiarch Darius

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Death Guard are pretty annoying, but Strikes are still one of the most efficient ways to force down their saves. Their army is still slow and mostly bad at melee (they have to swap out weapons to do it), if you can gap close they will suffer for it.

 

As for dealing with character spam, GK don't get snipers or even psychic powers that deal with them. 'Vortex' is about as nasty as we get (if they're only screened by 3" from your initial target, they still get hit unless they shunt it off to Deathshroud). I suppose just try and stay in melee as much as possible, so they can't shoot you easily. Death Guard do have a lot of mortal wound spamming abilities and anti-elite shooting. You've just gotta carve a path to the characters causing you problems. Mortal Wounds are nice for forcing DR saves, but yeah only being 1 damage except against Daemons hurts. On the plus side, I'm pretty sure Poxwalkers are Daemon keyword, so it works on them at full 3 damage IIRC. 

 

The problem with going full elite, even if you're just wanting to stomp DG in particular, is getting bogged down and slowly torn apart. The Strikes mainly excel at massacring hordes at range, they're one of the most efficient anti-infantry sources in our list. Paladins are great, but they do pretty much all their work in melee. Purgators might also prove useful, because they're causing D3 damage per hit which forces more DR saves (perfect for murdering Poxwalkers). With the Psychic Onslaught strategem, you can even start tearing down Plague Marines (wounding on 4's at that point, they're saving on 4's followed by 5's, having to make on average two DR saves each time they fail armour). 


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"Already, you exalt me for my triumphs, when I ask only that you remember me for my treacheries.
Victory is nothing more than survival. It carries no weight of honour or worth beyond what we ascribe to it.
If you wish to grow wise, learn why brothers betray brothers."

Grand Master Khyron, Eighth Brotherhood

"One unbreakable shield against the coming darkness, One last blade, forged in defiance of fate,
Let them be my legacy to the galaxy I conquered. And my final gift to the species I failed."

Inscription upon the Arcus Daemonica, attributed to the Emperor of Mankind


#25
Prot

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Agreed  Darius. Playing into the hands of elite killers with more elite units is a dicey proposition that gives even less room for errors.

 

 

Played maelstrom. he didnt have morty but quite a bit of daemons, two daemon princes and 3 blight drones. Lost on Vps but really killed things I got a hold of. Our smite is so crap against non daemon stuff as most times they Disgusting Resilience it away. His Weed sprayer dudes (Foul Blightspawn?) are very nasty.....against elite armies like ours they are deadly, took down a 5 paladin squad from full to dead in one turn from 2 of them.....they are scary and being characters you cant target them and they are never the closest! Over all a fun game but I cant get my GMNDK to really work well, he took down two bloat drones things which is good but he was easily destroyed by the weed sprayers!......I need to rethink my list....honestly the 5 man strike squads are just too small and i find are too easily killed. I am thinking i should just load up on Paladins and take vanguard detachment. As always the Storm Raven is gold.

 

I primarily play Maelstrom or tournament type scenarios which means... covering objectives. That is a TOUGH match up you had. I am starting to feel like the Deathguard are the best Marine based infantry army. I know many will argue Ultra with Guilliman however, I still think if you end up with even reasonable terrain in your tournament, this can change.

 

I put 46 shots into 3 Plague marines (stormbolters) and killed 2. That T5 + resilience is just zonkers sometimes. I know this is unusual, but it seems to happen to me about once a game where I just can't damage something... VERY frustrating. (I wouldn't post this but I play against DG probably more than the average person right now).

 

Dabble in that tough ObSec and I think Darius is right... get more bodies with Obsec. That unit you are referring to... that one that had the fart cloud... wow. That is definitely an elite killer. I can't stand that dude. He's pricey but he's basically made to take down expensive units with mortal wounds. 

 

I have been lazy... but starting now I will try to put more into my Strike squads. 


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