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How is everyone dealing with the hate?


slowclinic

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Not your standard post, but I think it's something most of us will have had some experience with since Guard made it back into the spotlight...

 

I started playing Guard after many years of wanting a Tank-heavy army. In 7th, I made the jump, and spent around 18 months building, painting, and gaming with a Mechanised Guard army, with around a 50% win rate. I've never been a competitive player, and building WAAC lists never interested me. I just liked tanks. Since 8th came about, and our new Codex shortly after, I've been on the receiving end of quite literal hate from other gamers for essentially playing the same lists I always have; Pask in a Punisher, a few Russes, various artillery, and sometimes plasma Scions, all of which were built long before 8th edition was in sight. It's almost as if the Riptide/Wave Serpent/Invisibility/etc. spamming never existed. 

 

I've read similar stories around various forums and Facebook groups, but I'm interested in hearing from those long time Guard players who are suddenly getting shunned for turning up with an army that a vast majority of us were attracted to based on fluff, real-world history, and other fiction.

 

How have general attitudes towards you and your army changed since 8th came about?

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There is nothing you can do about people disliking you or your army. At best you can make them not able to voice it, but it sure does not mean they will want to play vs IG.

 

Arguments like, "it is not my doing that fluff guard is suddenly very good" , "don't your remember that guard was last time good as a gimmik 2kpts build in 5th ed[when most people played 1500]" and "am playing the same like I played in 7th, when you were rolling me over etc", will not work. Those that understand them, won't fell hate to begin with. And those that do not care.

 

toughen up, it is the only way. And if you can't get pick up games there is two things you can do play a bad/copy army or play at events.

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Literal hate in person for it? I can understand people getting upity online because of the whole "not infront of a dude so i dont get the fear of backlash/shun in turn for being mean" but damn that sucks man.

 

All I can really say is point out you have been playing this list since 7th when guard was a low tier army, that its their fault if they lose (honestly, guard isnt that "balls to the wall amazing" as some suggest, i can think up lists for admech, space marines and orks that could hand them their tail) and offer your opponents advice about how the game works now. Just be polite in rebuttal and if they are overally aggressive or insulting, I would recommend, depending on where you game to either ignore it and "get a thick skin" so to speak or talk to the group leader/store leader to have a word with said person in private if you cannot get them to stop. I know "telling teacher" or whatever, but it is never acceptable to be a bleep to somebody simply because you lost, I NEVER treated somebody differently or badly just because I lost and I faced a fair few cheese lists over time and lost a fair amount, it just isnt on at all and if people cant play nice they should go home.

 

Its hard to go too beyond this, because I dont know your situation nor the enemy armies, but nearly all times I see somebody complain "guard too good" in video batreps or general batreps etc, they have an army thats built for 7th still, or for fighting elite armies, totally unsuitable for fighting the guard or ANY horde based army. This is that persons fault and at this point, months into 8th edition, its pure arrogance of being unwilling to adapt.

 

My main army is and likely will be admech when FW updates, meaning i have whats likely the direct opposite to guard (ie elite very limited numbers), I wouldnt get salty at some guard player simply for playing guard fluffy, even if a new bandwagon dude.

Edited by Mitchverr
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Most of my models are fairly old as it is (90s cadian metals) So I generally avoid the hate. But still get a fair bit of suprise. But it is my main army. I have spent a lot of time on the minatures and will keep using them throughout 8th. Through the good and bad. 

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I think its a bummer folks feel they have to point out how long they've played an army to be taken seriously. How does tenure matter? Is there some kind of unwritten rule to this hobby where there's a list of armies newbies aren't allowed to start with? Honestly, most of the hate I've seen is coming from veteran Guard players towards those starting Guard for the first time. 

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There is nothing you can do about people disliking you or your army. At best you can make them not able to voice it, but it sure does not mean they will want to play vs IG.

 

Arguments like, "it is not my doing that fluff guard is suddenly very good" , "don't your remember that guard was last time good as a gimmik 2kpts build in 5th ed[when most people played 1500]" and "am playing the same like I played in 7th, when you were rolling me over etc", will not work. Those that understand them, won't fell hate to begin with. And those that do not care.

 

toughen up, it is the only way. And if you can't get pick up games there is two things you can do play a bad/copy army or play at events.

I wouldn't say toughening up is what's needed, to be honest. It's not like I'm getting any hurt feelings out of this at all, just annoyance at the immediate cries of OP as soon as Guard are no longer seen as an automatic win for the opposing player. The real problem is the hypocrisy and lack of sportsmanship, I suppose.

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Literal hate in person for it? I can understand people getting upity online because of the whole "not infront of a dude so i dont get the fear of backlash/shun in turn for being mean" but damn that sucks man.

 

All I can really say is point out you have been playing this list since 7th when guard was a low tier army, that its their fault if they lose (honestly, guard isnt that "balls to the wall amazing" as some suggest, i can think up lists for admech, space marines and orks that could hand them their tail) and offer your opponents advice about how the game works now. Just be polite in rebuttal and if they are overally aggressive or insulting, I would recommend, depending on where you game to either ignore it and "get a thick skin" so to speak or talk to the group leader/store leader to have a word with said person in private if you cannot get them to stop. I know "telling teacher" or whatever, but it is never acceptable to be a bleep to somebody simply because you lost, I NEVER treated somebody differently or badly just because I lost and I faced a fair few cheese lists over time and lost a fair amount, it just isnt on at all and if people cant play nice they should go home.

 

Its hard to go too beyond this, because I dont know your situation nor the enemy armies, but nearly all times I see somebody complain "guard too good" in video batreps or general batreps etc, they have an army thats built for 7th still, or for fighting elite armies, totally unsuitable for fighting the guard or ANY horde based army. This is that persons fault and at this point, months into 8th edition, its pure arrogance of being unwilling to adapt.

 

My main army is and likely will be admech when FW updates, meaning i have whats likely the direct opposite to guard (ie elite very limited numbers), I wouldnt get salty at some guard player simply for playing guard fluffy, even if a new bandwagon dude.

I get where you're coming from. Not reacting in any way other than indifference towards any aggressive attitudes works the best. Interestingly, a lot of the backlash is coming from those that sunk a lot of money into Primaris Marines when they first came out. Everyone local knows I've been playing Guard with an emphasis on tanks after watching Fury one too many times :rolleyes:

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I think its a bummer folks feel they have to point out how long they've played an army to be taken seriously. How does tenure matter? Is there some kind of unwritten rule to this hobby where there's a list of armies newbies aren't allowed to start with? Honestly, most of the hate I've seen is coming from veteran Guard players towards those starting Guard for the first time. 

I don't understand this either, but it's the same in most walks of life when something gets widespread popularity beyond the dedicated fanbase (underground bands, football teams, fashion, etc.). 

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I think its a bummer folks feel they have to point out how long they've played an army to be taken seriously. How does tenure matter? Is there some kind of unwritten rule to this hobby where there's a list of armies newbies aren't allowed to start with? Honestly, most of the hate I've seen is coming from veteran Guard players towards those starting Guard for the first time. 

 

It isnt so much that its anti newbie, but a great many veterans jumped the shark from tau and eldar in order to have the "strongest army" then proceeded to abuse said army, if you were a newbie who picked the army to play, then you are just like the veteran guard player imo, just explain it and most people will just go "you got lucky, got a very strong army to field if you play right" and the odd joke (least the guys i played with and play with now do this kind of banter).

 

The only 1 i cant really give help to are as said, the bandwagon chaps whom are always "that guy" and use the most broken overpowered build in earlier versions simply because they needed to WAAC.

 

 

I get where you're coming from. Not reacting in any way other than indifference towards any aggressive attitudes works the best. Interestingly, a lot of the backlash is coming from those that sunk a lot of money into Primaris Marines when they first came out. Everyone local knows I've been playing Guard with an emphasis on tanks after watching Fury one too many times :rolleyes:

 

Yeah, its a tough boat to be in mate, and its especially funny to hear it about people whom jumped on primaris marines aswell doing such a thing lol. But yeah, they sunk their money into an army they thought I bet would be OP as all heck, because GW has a history of doing OP into new models for a line already out to sell them, they got a shock when 8th turned out to be fairly well balanced. Good luck with turning the other cheek though, for they know not what they do.

 

Also, never feel ashamed for being a guard tank guy, watching fury though, thats shameful, but its a shame theres no really good tank movies out there.

Edited by Mitchverr
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I would just ignore them. Getting pick up games shouldn't be too difficult with your approach to the game. Give in a few weeks and the hate will turn to the next new codex. In a few months everyone will be op. ^_^ 

 

One thing I would do is against newer players just let them know before you play that your codex just came out and your army, while fluffy, is pretty strong. Maybe encourage the other player on good movements and points to attack your army and play missions that might be more difficult for your army. Also, try to use a fair amount of terrain as really shooty armies scare a lot of people away.

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I guess the lists I enjoy running sucked in 7th and still suck in 8th because I have yet to win a game of 40k with my Guard army ...

 

Of course I've not played with the codex yet just the index. And I do have a fair few Russes so maybe this will change. But I've experienced no hate yet for sure.

Edited by Nicodemus Doloroso
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That's why I say a lot of people in this game are severely disturbed. I can understand getting angry for a moment when you roll bad dice. But feeling *hate* because your toy soldiers lose against someone else's toy soldiers? Geeez. I also know people who almost literally went paranoid about the new AM codex (and not just that).

 

People *really* need to calm down. The saddest part is, they haven't so far so they won't. 

 

What to do? Well I'd just advise them to seek help, because they need it for sure. And try to find decent players to play with.

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Hand their :cuss to them using a different army.

Codex is gonna trump index at this point and anyone rolling index now should be doing it for love rather than wins. In my opinion all the new dexes have been pretty even on power level, Guard simply stands out because of their build flexibility.

Edited by duz_
Don't dodge the swear filter
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dude this is exactly the problem w40k has. you can't play with the army you want, with the models you like [well unless they are really bad, the it is called fluffy and opponents welcome such armies with open arms]. telling someone to spend another 700-1000$ on another army hardly fixs anything, because the new army may end up "too good" too. This hurts new players the most, because a veteran can always go back to his status in the local community, a new player is going to be called a WAAC, because playing with a good army is the greatest sin someone could ever make. Sometimes I think that this is due many people falling for the "play what you want" trap, spending 2k on something that doesn't work, and then having to spend even more to get a working army [add to this painting of all the stuff, and it turns in to a torture]. They just can't stand that someone may have fun spending 1/3 of the cash .

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I haven't got much hate yet

 

In fact most opponents win or lose so far have enjoyed playing against my lists :biggrin.:

Which is great, because I try and build my lists to be fun and thematic and balanced

 

Well let me be the devil's advocate here.

 

Whilst I agree that ''hate'' is an unsportsmanlike and extreme reaction, I can also understand people not feeling very happy about playing against a list that could be seen as unbalanced.  This does not apply only for guard of course: I for one would not enjoy playing against an ''army'' consisting of nothing but three knights.

 

As guard we do get the ability to run an army consisting of, say, only Leman Russ Tanks. This is legal, and I bet it is fun to play Tank Commander, but I'm not sure it's fun to play against if you have a balanced ''TAC'' list. Every point spent in anti-infantry is wasted. Sure, lasguns can hurt LR now, but you'd need to pour hundreds of shots into a single Russ to blow it up.

 

Same applies if we take it the other way round, and spam hundreds of conscripts. 

 

I don't know. I sometimes miss the days of 4th and 5th edition, and the old Force Organisation Chart, when running a decent amount of Troops was mandatory and when Heavy Support was heavy SUPPORT, and not the bulk of the force. 

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Haven’t even used conscripts in 8th. That gets me some odd looks.

 

Some past cycles of hate were on specific units. I think the mortar is going down that path. Locally in a game where this Necron player was winning handily, including a unit of unstoppable wraiths he bitterly complained about a mortar squad that didn’t even kill its own point value.

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Haven't seen any hate outside of the internet yet, but I haven't been around the shop much lately.

 

I get the hatred toward perceived or actual imbalance, as is present in many games that I've played over the years. :censored: paladins, right?

Edited by Juggernut
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I've been playing Guard since 3rd edition, and since I predominantly play with a small circle of friends, they know I've stuck with Guard through thick and thin, so they haven't given me any real grief. They have developed a healthy respect for Guard since 8th though, I usually faced off against Space Wolves with plenty of Thunderwolves and Wolfen, Daemon Factories, the ridiculous Tau formations of 7th, Eldar, and Tyranid monster spam. I discovered Mordian Glory on YouTube towards the end of 7th edition and he hyped up Conscripts enough that I thought I would give them a try. By the time I bought the models and got them built 8th edition had already been out for  a couple months and the Conscript hysteria had started. I had to deal with some ribbing there but, like I said, I've been playing Guard forever and have never used net-lists or anything like that, so I think they know that I'm not just jumping on an "OP" bandwagon.

 

I've played 4 games in 8th so far, the first two were against Tyranids and I suffered fairly strong defeats, partly because of the number of first turn charges and crappy luck with deployment zone rolls and having to cram my army into table quarters for both games. My third game was against Daemons, I won a narrow victory, but devastated my opponent's army. My 4th was against Orks, he took a Stompa to try it out in 8th, at the end of the game all he had left was 2 Lootas and a Mekboy. I lost though because the mission was for kill points, I deployed 32 units and he only had 9. The only way I could have beat him was to table him. He racked up a lot of kill points early on by killing 10-man infantry squads and sentinels. It didn't help that when I finally destroyed his Stompa a turn after it got into my lines it exploded and killed three characters and two depleted squads. I basically traded 5 victory points for 1!

 

I haven't had the chance to play since the Codex came out though. Everybody seemed to be pretty nervous about playing my Guard in 8th already, and the Codex has only made them more nervous! It could just be a coincidence that they've been on an Age of Sigmar kick since the Codex was announced, but I sometimes wonder, lol!

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