Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Hello all, I recently made a decision to get into tournaments and thought that I would share that path with you. I got into this game because of how it played (I am a reluctant painter at best) and highly enjoy the tactical aspect of it. The one problem: due to time, money, and other hobbies I will only ever play the army I first started, Blood Angels. I started BA at the beginning of 7th edition when they still had a 5th edition codex. They were ok and I had fun playing them. Then the power creep of 7th started and I just could not win a game to save my life. I made the decision that when 8th dropped, I would start really trying to get serious about the game and seeing what I could do to work within the constraints of my army. I had been playing a list in the first few months of 8th that made use of several units of scouts when Frontline Gaming dropped an article with some tips for Blood Angels. Once I realized I had most of the models already I put a list together based off of FLG’s advice and put the word out to some friends of mine that I wanted to start practicing for tournaments. My local meta is pretty tough and I know several really good players who were willing to help me prep. The list I’ve been running is: Battalion 1 – Blood Angels Capt – jump pack, TH/SS Librarian – jump pack, plasma pistol, force sword Scout Squad (X5) – camo cloak, missile launcher Scout Squad (X5) – camo cloak, missile launcher Scout Squad (X5) – camo cloak, missile launcher Death Company (X15) – jump packs, TH, power sword Bolt pistol & chainsword (X13) Assault Squad (X5) – jump packs, meltagun, meltabomb Assault Squad (X5) – jump packs, meltagun Assault Squad (X5) – jump packs, meltagun Battalion 2 – Blood Angels Capt – jump pack, plasma pistol, relic blade Sanguinary Priest – jump pack Scout Squad (X5) – combat knife Scout Squad (X5) – camo cloak, missile launcher Tac Squad (X5) – boltguns Devastator Squad (X5) – missile launchers, armor cherub Devastator Squad (X10) – lascannons, armor cherub TOTAL 2000 Practice Game 1 Vs: Astra Militarum Warzone Atlanta mission – Aggressive Recon Deployment: Frontline Assault My first game was against my friend PJ’s Imperial Guard. I can’t remember the list exactly but he had a Stormlord, several 10-man infantry squads with autocannons, two lascannon teams, one heavy bolter team, plasma scions, two Vanquisher tanks, and a sprinkling of commanders and commissars. This was my first time playing any kind of tournament type game and found a bunch of missions from Warzone Atlanta that we rolled on. I won first turn and did my best to keep pressure on the Stormlord. I shot everything I had at it as well as deep striking my Assault teams to try and tie it up in charges. My CC scouts also got up the board very quickly and even managed to charge an infantry squad and due to pile in shenanigans got it tied up with the Stormlord. Imagine my surprise when I learned that Baneblade variants can still shoot in CC! My scouts did a fantastic job of drawing fire all game and even getting some crucial 6+ saves from lascannons. My Death Company got into PJ’s left flank turn 2 where I made a critical tactical error. I multi-charged an infantry squad, heavy weapon team, 2 commisars, and a commander; however, in my excitement I did not target any of the HQs and just wiped the heavy/infantry guys. This let PJ shoot almost everything into my Death Company in his turn where he wiped them off the board. I managed to finally kill the Stormlord on Turn 3 but after that I couldn’t seem to keep units in place long enough to hold the objectives I needed to win the game. It took me until the end of the game to kill his remaining tanks and I kept feeding units into his backfield one by one (2nd major tactical error, should have rushed all at once) trying to get his objectives as well as linebreaker but he was able to keep me away. Turn 5 saw the score at 15-27 for an Imperial Guard victory. Some notes here – I do not like the Warzone ATL format as you only score objectives at the top of your movement phase. This seems to make the game devolve into an objective denial game as you have to sit there for an entire round while your opponent hammers you off objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Practice Game 2 Vs: Renegade Knights/Chaos ITC Mission: 3 (from the test missions for SoCal Open) Deployment: Dawn of War This was against my friend Cody’s Knights/Chaos mix: Knight 1 – double gatling cannon, stormspear rocket Knight 2 – double thermal cannon, ironstorm missile pod Knight 3 – reaper chainsword, thunderstrike gauntlet, ironstorm missile pod Battalion – Emperors Children Sorceror – plasma pistol, staff, warptime, delightful agonies Demon Prince – wings, talons, delightful agonies Cultists (X10) – autoguns Cultists (X10) - autoguns Cultists (X10) – autoguns Daemonettes (X10) – Cody left points to summon in this squad once should he lose them I cannot emphasize enough how much I love my scouts. The extra deployment capabilities really seem to throw people off who aren’t ready for it. By playing some deployment shenanigans I was able to get a majority of my army out of range of two of the three Knights. With the small size of his army I was already expecting to go 2nd and knew I was going to have to weather some fire so I did my best to mitigate that. Cody killed my missile devastators and got one of the cultist squads on top of a unit of my scouts Turn 1 which forced me to split my Assault squads who deep struck in for a rescue charge while the rest of them went hunting Super Heavies. My answering volley took 17 wounds off the double-dakka Knight while I ignored the others and tried freeing up the endangered scouts. I also forgot about my CC scouts this turn and left them inches away from an easy objective which meant the bottom of turn 1 was 2-4 in favor of Chaos. Turn 2 I started to rally by killing one Knight and severely wounding another while losing an assault squad to the Demon Prince and weathering some CC from the Daemonettes. I remembered my CC scouts this time and got them where they needed to be while wiping out the cultist squad off of my camo scouts and putting some hurt on the Daemonettes. I had enough objectives and secondaries to bring the score to 4-7. At this point I started to realize that I could control the pace of the game because of the way the simplified ITC missions work. Essentially if I could control more objectives than my opponent at the end of the Battle Round, I could earn more points that he couldn’t stop or answer. I killed the second Knight and started work on the 3rd while dangling my TH/SS Capt out for his Demon Prince as bait. I knew I could lose the Capt but he wasn’t my warlord while the Demon Prince was his. The Capt survived to jump away and get healed back up by the Sang Priest which allowed me to finish the DP off with my last meltagun unit. The game ended on Turn 5 with the last Knight down to 5 wounds while I had suffered some severe losses myself after a really great slugfest. Final score ended up 19-22 in favor of Chaos but this was probably the most fun I’ve had playing 40K in a long time. I enjoyed the new ITC missions very much as it makes going 2nd more palatable and gives you some more control over the game when you pick your secondary missions. I have a couple more practice games coming up before my first tournament on Oct 28th so I’ll keep adding to this thread for anyone interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Sounds fun. Couple things: 1. I don't think you're supposed to put actual points in each unit's description. It's against the rules or something. 2. Assault squads are largely considered to be pretty rubbish. I mostly share that opinion, though if you're REALLY Scraped for points (ie, if 10 points matter) you can just put down a 5 man squad for going in deep for objectives. But generally, the extra 2 ppm that Vanguard vets pay is worth their extra attack, leadership, and equipment options. That asssumes of course you have enough elite slots left, but, barring that, may i suggest bikes? move faster, far more durably, and more shooty (though less choppy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Thanks for the heads up! I removed the points so hopefully not breaking any rules. I don't really see a lot of fat to trim for points but the Assault squads are there for hunting armor or whatever problem I run into that could be solved by melta. I use the DC for any CC I need taken care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 so...you have...8 missile launchers (9 with cherub) and 4 lascannons (5 with cherub). That's a crapload of anti-tank! You really think you need 3 more meltaguns?? I'd recommend pushing those guys down to maybe 1 assault squad with 2 meltaguns, and scrap the other 2 assault squads. Get a couple mid volume/mid damage dakka in there, like a twin assault razorback (ie, the assback) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 No FW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 The only FW stuff I have are the dreadnought drop pods or Sicaran tank with lascannon sponsons. I find both to be too expensive in points for what they provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 so...you have...8 missile launchers (9 with cherub) and 4 lascannons (5 with cherub). That's a crapload of anti-tank! You really think you need 3 more meltaguns?? In a world where people run 3 Knights, or Magnus with two giant Keeper of Secrets, yes. Yes I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Practice Game 3 Vs: Ultramarines ITC Mission: 5 (from the test missions for SoCal Open) Deployment: Spearhead Assault After some discussions with friends I decided to tweak my list a bit before the actual tournament and get one last practice game in. I got rid of the extra bodies in one Dev squad, switched the other from missiles to lascannons, lost the meltabomb on Assault Sgt, and traded the CC Scout squad for another missile squad. Battalion 1 – Blood Angels Capt – jump pack, TH/SS Librarian – jump pack, plasma pistol, force sword Scout Squad (X5) – camo cloak, missile launcher Scout Squad (X5) – camo cloak, missile launcher Scout Squad (X5) – camo cloak, missile launcher Death Company (X15) – jump packs, TH, power sword Bolt pistol & chainsword (X13) Assault Squad (X5) – jump packs, meltagun Assault Squad (X5) – jump packs, meltagun Assault Squad (X5) – jump packs, meltagun Battalion 2 – Blood Angels Capt – jump pack, plasma pistol, relic blade Sanguinary Priest – jump pack Scout Squad (X5) – camo cloak, missile launcher Scout Squad (X5) – camo cloak, missile launcher Tac Squad (X6) – heavy flamer Devastator Squad (X5) – lascannons, armor cherub Devastator Squad (X5) – lascannons, armor cherub TOTAL 2000 My friend Scott fielded his Ultramarines: Guilliman Land Raider w/ Chronus Land Raider Redeemer Vindicator Vindicator Stormtalon Razorback w/ heavy bolter X2 Razorback w/ assault cannon X2 Razorback w/ lascannon My memory is a little fuzzy but I’m pretty sure that was his 2K list. On paper it looks like my list was made to kill his and I admit I went into this game with confidence. I won the roll off for 1st turn and killed a Vindicator and took another down to half health with concentrated fire. I was able to get my Death Company in prime position and succeeded in charging five of the vehicles although I did minimal damage in the fight phase. Scott was able to get all of the screening vehicles out of combat and used what was left to shoot the Death Company squad off the board with his Land Raiders, Stormtalon, and Guilliman. In my second turn I brought the Stormtalon down to half health but whiffed all of my other shooting trying to bring down the last Vindicator. In turn 3 neither of us managed to do much other than Scott was able to secure the center objective while I shot everything at the wounded Stormtalon but rolled terribly and failed to kill it. I brought my assault squads into his back line and destroyed one Razorback and wounded another. From this point on Scott was able to control the center objective with his Land Raiders while Guilliman protected the objective in his back field by clobbering the Assault squads whenever they got close. The game ended Turn 5 at 17-22 for an Ultramarines victory. Scott had deployed perfectly surrounding Guilliman and the land raiders with all of the other vehicles and between my poor rolls, and him being able to re-roll everything, he was able to keep me off of the center objective. I’m not so sure I would have played this game any differently, sometimes it’s all about the luck of the dice and I definitely did not have the favor of the dice gods that day. So going into the tournament tomorrow (10/28) I am 0-3 with my practice games. I feel a bit like a new boxer who has been fighting the best of his class, and doing well, but still losing. I have yet to face any Xenos armies or Daemons but I’m going in hoping for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 So going into the tournament tomorrow (10/28) I am 0-3 with my practice games. I feel a bit like a new boxer who has been fighting the best of his class, and doing well, but still losing. I have yet to face any Xenos armies or Daemons but I’m going in hoping for the best. You should feel a bit like a boxer, fighting in the wrong weight class really. You're a welterweight fighting against heavy weights. You hit them hard, but they keep coming. That's the difference I've seen between Codex vs. Index. I wish you look, may Sanguinius bless your dice rolling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 That's come around quite quickly all in all. Despite the losses you will have learned lots, but have you been enjoying playing this way? There's every chance you'll have a decent showing so don't worry that you'll just be making up the numbers - not every opponent will be rocking the latest netlist after all. Know your force inside and out, and focus on their capabilities; make sure you hide any weakness and work out how to stack the odds in your favour. It also helps to know your opponents. If you know the meta than great, revise them. If not then try to have a good grasp of the more common things you'll face so there's less chance you'll be gazumped at the wrong moment. Oh, and wear some comfy shoes :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 I very much enjoy playing at a hyper competitive level. All of my opponents so far were pleasantly surprised at how hard I've been fighting and the tactical decisions I made. I have learned a lot so far and feel like I know my list and its capabilities backwards and forwards so I do hope to do well. Thanks for the well wishes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I like your moxy. It is a great idea to learn your army inside and out before taking it on the big stage. Don't sweat the practice record. You are playing with an arm tied behind your back until they faq our index entry or print the codex. Keep learning, my biggest take away from nearly 20 years of warhammer tournaments is that the players who beat me on the regular often know my army better than I do. Watch youtube vids of army book reviews and troll the webs of the armies you fear. Be the guy who knows more! Oh and get some sleep and bring snacks. Brain is a hungry organ. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 how are you finding the jump packers? and why not double melta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 So it ended up being a very small tournament due to the holiday weekend. Only 5 people showed up to play; the guy who runs it says they usually get between 10-20 people. I ended up going 2-2. Game 1: 4 Knights, dude seized on me and it was downhill from there; loss Game 2: Space Wolves, my dice went cold out of nowhere and I failed to wound most everything. I also failed three 6 inch charges in a row. Loss Game 3: Tyranids, he only brought two Tervigons for synapse and I took them out early on which allowed me to run this game; first win Game 4: Admech, played a Ryza CC list which was very fun, but lack of transports meant he was hoofing it. My jump packs meant I was way more mobile and could get where I needed to be all game. Win how are you finding the jump packers? and why not double melta? I don't have the points available for double melta in each squad and they are decent back up CC support if need be. Honestly I love the jump packs, half of my army basically parks after deployment while the other half jumps all over the board and can provide support where needed; it's extremely effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordKelvin Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I just want to say that I'm glad to hear Blood Angels players pushing on despite the issues. Some games I want to shelve them until at least Chapter Approved if not our codex. I'm glad you managed to have some success at the tournament. How do you feel about the camo cloaks on scouts? I have one 5 man camo cloak sniper, missile launcher squad that I enjoy despite their mixed success. I've considered running more but running them bare bones and wondered how much you liked the cloaks without sniper rifles. I'm interested by the spread of missile launchers since my one missile launcher always misses >.<. I'm glad you have success with the assault squads. Mine haven't been successful but I only roll with one and feel like I need a bigger saturation to make them impactful. Do you feel like your list would benefit from running Dante for the Chapter Master rerolls? Do you feel like your list could use armor or do you think the spread of bodies to soak up damage for the heavy weapons is good as opposed to a predator or land raider? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 I just want to say that I'm glad to hear Blood Angels players pushing on despite the issues. Some games I want to shelve them until at least Chapter Approved if not our codex. I'm glad you managed to have some success at the tournament. How do you feel about the camo cloaks on scouts? I have one 5 man camo cloak sniper, missile launcher squad that I enjoy despite their mixed success. I've considered running more but running them bare bones and wondered how much you liked the cloaks without sniper rifles. I'm interested by the spread of missile launchers since my one missile launcher always misses >.<. I'm glad you have success with the assault squads. Mine haven't been successful but I only roll with one and feel like I need a bigger saturation to make them impactful. Do you feel like your list would benefit from running Dante for the Chapter Master rerolls? Do you feel like your list could use armor or do you think the spread of bodies to soak up damage for the heavy weapons is good as opposed to a predator or land raider? To address Dante first bc I have heard people are having trouble with him this edition: IMO we are no longer a "go out there and get them" army. Between the drop pod price hikes, 9" away deep strikes, 8" flamer range, and other reasons I feel I've utilized my guys best as a counter assault force. Draw the enemy in and then hit them with a giant hay maker. To that end I think people are having problems (as did I in the beginning) running the special characters up the board only to have them isolated and killed. Dante is a magnificent buff machine who can defend himself very very well but the best way I have found to use him is putting him next to something that makes use of the re-rolls. Think Devastator squads, Land Raiders, Stormravens; anything with enough dakka to justify his points cost. I don't use him for tournaments because I need those points elsewhere but when I do use him in other games I keep him in my back field as defense, rather than charging him up the board. Anything you charge up the board or send into your opponents back line to harass you have to be prepared to lose. My giant Death Company block exists to do three things: 1) Die. They are a suicide unit. I go into every game prepared to lose every single one of them 2) Kill. Just through sheer volume of attacks there is nothing they won't put wounds on. I have erased 30-man units in a single charge with my giant unit. 3) Distraction. Anyone who knows what they can do will target them out. That means they aren't shooting at my lascannons or something else. I also have 9CP and have used at least 2 in every game to keep one or two Death Company from fleeing. It almost always becomes worth it. In one of my practice games against three Knights, I kept the thunder hammer guy alive with CP only for him to take the last few wounds off one of the Knights. Even the entire squad, point-for-point, made up their points in that game by that kill alone. I cannot recommend scouts enough. I keep mine with bolters just because I try to spread my points out as much as possible. The scouts exist as a vehicle to get the missile launchers in there and they are annoyingly resilient. In the game against Tyranids my opponent spent his entire 1st turn shooting at one scout squad in order to wipe it off the board. When facing armies that do not ignore cover and/or don't have a lot of -AP weapons, they are fantastic. Please, by all means, spend a turn or two killing off a 95 point unit because I have four others waiting. That is another must: redundancies. Almost everything in my tournament list has a backup, and even the backup has a backup. It's the rare game where I lose both devastator squads before one of them can fire. I have yet to play a game where more than two units of scouts has died/been tied up in CC. The way I usually deploy my army is essentially a mirror from flank to flank. Dev squads surrounded by scouts with a Capt nearby for re-rolls. The only advice I've gotten for my army that I would still heed is trading out a 2 units of scouts with bolters, for scouts with snipers. I think 8 sniper rifles could definitely help but until points come down in a codex or Chapter Approved I have a hard time at this point giving things up elsewhere to make it work. As far as vehicles...I just don't think they are up to snuff this edition. Its too hard to get cover for them and while they are tougher to kill, they are large targets that will die early on. I also have no idea what I would give up in order to fit one in. I say this as a person who currently owns 4 dreadnoughts, a Knight, a Baal Pred, a razorback, a rhino, a stormraven, a land raider crusader, a sicaran, 2 forgeworld drop pods, and 4 regular drop pods. Maybe if I got a bunch of razorbacks I could run a Dante + razorbacks list but playing a lot of foot infantry is also very fun, thematic, and no one expects it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jønke Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Great write up. Lots of usefull points :) I better try out some scouts and try to use less tanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordKelvin Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Thank you for your insight. I think you have good ideas for how to shift my list around. I especially like your insight on vehicles. I have had success with troops but wondered if vehicles would be better. Good to know mass troops has brought other people success. I would agree with your assessment about assault units and combat characters. I've learned they just die and should just be distractions but it still makes me feel bad when they blow up after failing the 9 inch charge. Just need to keep in mind that was shooting not directed at my devastator squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 Practice Game 4 Vs: Orks ITC Mission: 6 Deployment: Frontline Assault Ork Brigade Ghazghkull Thraka Warboss Weirdboy Boyz (X24) Boyz (X24) Boyz (X24) Boyz (X10) Boyz (X10) Gretchin (X10) Meganobz (X3) Mek Painboy Deff Kopta Deff Kopta Stormboyz (X5) Gorkanaut Lootas (X5) Lootas(X5) Wow…just wow. I had yet to play Orks this edition and did not know much about them. I also learned over the course of this game that I misunderstood what I thought I DID know. My friend Drew taught me the error of my ways in a very fun afternoon of gaming. Drew won the roll off for 1st turn until I seized on him. I put several wounds on his Gorkanaut with lascannons, thinned out some of his Boyz, and tried to set up for how I thought the game was going to go. I completely misunderstood Da Jump as a double movement power in the same vein as Warp Time is. Because of this misunderstanding I deployed way more aggressively than I should have, left big gaping holes in my own backfield, and tried to set up my Death Company during my turn to Hail Mary down Drew’s left flank to try and take his objective from him. This failed completely when Drew jumped the first unit of 20+ Boyz almost right on top of the DC and proceeded to tear them a new one in CC. With my main horde killers taken out immediately I tried to make the best of a bad situation and hold out until an opportunity for my Assault Squads to come in from deep strike and hopefully salvage some points. Unfortunately for me, Drew was able to keep complete and total board control by jumping a 2nd unit of 20+ Boyz onto MY objective and running another straight up the middle of the board where I failed to deal with them. I did the best I could at this point but the game ended turn 5 with a score of 29-15 for a complete Ork victory! I have to say, I love the way Orks are played in this edition. Drew’s list was strong, thematic, and made for a great time. 40K will always have issues but I think the state of the game is in a good place when a list like Drew’s can do well. None of my practice games have gone this badly for me yet I was having a blast the whole time I was losing. Obviously I still have a lot to learn and this is the point of the practice games. I still have yet to play Eldar (of any faction), Daemons, Necrons, or Tau. I still haven’t faced off against any of the Chaos Primarchs and have only played Black Legion Chaos once. I looking forward to more learning experiences as I travel down this path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Edit - Ignore me, for some reason I thought Vanguard could take special weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 Practice Game 5 & New Codex! Vs: Orks ITC Mission: 2 Deployment: Vanguard Strike Before this game I realized that Tac Squads with a missile launcher are cheaper than Scouts so I changed up the troop options for each Battalion to this: Scout Squad (X5): camo cloaks, boltguns, ML Tac Squad (X5): boltguns, ML Tac Squad (X5): boltguns, ML This allowed me to add another marine to each Dev Squad as a meat shield. It also means that my army no longer relies so heavily on cover and allows different avenues for deployment. Drew and I wanted to try out the new Chapter Approved stuff as well as me trying out the new Blood Angel previews. He told me he would either bring Space Wolves or Orks again, ultimately deciding on Orks. Since I now knew how the Orks could be utilized I deployed in such a way that he would bounce off, or at least speed bump over, a couple of ranks of units before getting to the meat of my CC specialists. I held nothing in reserve and covered my own deployment zone completely. I was able to hold off his frontal assault while a failed charge by his second Da Jump’d horde of Boyz allowed me to ‘focus fire’ each unit as it came up, giving me the win. A couple of thoughts on the new BA stuff: +1 to wound in CC is FANTASTIC. You will almost always get to use this (unless you are still tied up from a previous turn) and, with a nearby Sanguinary Priest, means you are wounding on 2’s in a majority of situations. I’ll wait until the codex drops and I can take a look at everything but I forsee Sanguinary Priests & Lieutenants armed with power axes in my near future. I burned a command point in the beginning of the game to give my TH/SS Capt the Black Rage (Death Visions of Sanguinius) and made his TH 4 damage through Artisan of War. This came to fruition when I charged Ghazgull Thraka, swinging 5 attacks, wounding 4, of which he only saved 1 resulting in 12 damage! That is one-rounding most vehicles and monsters; basic Capts will be doing work once this codex drops. I gave my other Capt the Veritas Vitae, but only ended up using one stratagem and I completely forgot to use it. I used Upon Wings of Fire for the surviving melta gun and Sergeant from one Assault Squad to jump to the other end of the board and shoot his Weirdboy off of an objective. This stratagem will be extremely effective going forward with the amount of jump packs I run. As of right now I don’t see my list changing that much when the codex actually comes out, however, I also don’t have an advanced copy so I will be figuring it all out when everyone else does. So far the leaked information has done nothing but make my army hit that much harder and I am so excited for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_Saurus_Rex Posted December 8, 2017 Author Share Posted December 8, 2017 Practice Game 6 Vs: Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons ITC Mission: 6 Deployment: Dawn of War Supreme Command- Thousand Sons Magnus Scarab occult terms sorcerer x 3 Battalion - TS Ahriman Daemon prince Tzaangors x2 10man Rubrics x2 5man Battalion - Chaos The changeling Sorcerer in term armor Horrors x3 Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought So this was a game I had been wanting to get in for some time. I had yet to face any of the Chaos Primarchs or a psyker heavy army at all. After a couple of rain checks I finally got in a game against my friend Ed’s Thousand Sons. I knew I was going to have to protect myself against Magnus’ Warp Time shenanigans, deep striking Terminators, and Smites coming in from all angles so I set my Devastators up around my chosen primary objective with successive layers of bubble wrap in the form of scouts and tac marines. If you think about the game board as a clock, with me at 6 o’clock, my primary was at about 5 o’clock while Ed has his set up at 1 o’clock. I finished deploying first, won the roll off for 1st turn, and Ed failed to seize. I moved an assault squad up my right flank toward Ed’s primary followed by TH/SS Capt and Librarian. I landed my Death Company at 3 o’clock to charge the units covering the primary. I opened up with the Devastators and every missile that could see into Magnus, bringing him down to 9 wounds and killed a horror or two with pistols. I popped Descent of Angels and Honour the Chapter on the DC to kill a squad of TSons marines and a squad of Tzaangors to put pressure on the primary. Ed then flew Magnus over to my Devastators and the demon price over to the DC unit. He deep struck his Scarabs over on my left flank (9 o’clock) to shoot my tac marines off of the 2nd objective. Between Smites, shooting, and charges he killed the entire squad of Death Company, two Tac squads, one Assault squad, and one Dev squad. In turn 2 I brought Magnus down and brought the DP down to half health while I tried to consolidate my remaining forces onto my Primary at 5 o’clock through the use of Upon Wings of Fire. In his turn Ed continued the counter clockwise movement, leaving horrors and Rubrics on objectives as he went, to try and get his Scarabs onto my primary. After killing the Demon Prince, I started my own counter clockwise movement trying to put pressure on his primary with my TH/SS Capt, Sang Priest, and Librarian. I ended up killing the Changeling and a Sorcerer while losing all but the Capt but Ed was able to wrap his objective and last sorcerer in horrors; proving to be surprisingly resilient with their 4++. Turn 4 saw Ahriman and Tzaangors charge my remaining Dev squad and 2nd Capt sitting on my primary. Between Smites and CC Ahriman was able to claim that objective winning Ed 5 primary points. By Turn 5 all I had left was the TH/SS Capt who killed a couple of horrors but could not get the last sorcerer or claim Ed’s primary. He tabled me in the bottom of 5 by smiting my last Capt for a 32-17 Thousand Sons victory. After every battle I like to run the exercise Adam Abramowicz discusses on The Best General podcast of “winning the game in my head.” I think about where I failed, what I could have done differently, etc that could have resulted in a win for me. This batrep is especially difficult to write in that I still cannot think of any way I could have played better. I genuinely think that I played the best game I could play. I made good decisions, rolled well, and played the scenario the best way I think I could have. There was no defining moment I lost this game that I can pin point. I think in the end that this comes down to great list building and generalship by Ed. He has a very strong army, and more, he knows exactly how to play it. Between the endless smites and high AP weaponry Ed was harvesting my dudes every turn. Even losing Magnus and his Demon Prince relatively early on really did not do much to diminish the killing power of his list. A couple of thoughts on BA strats: I am still of the opinion that BA got a very strong codex, however, we are lacking in the cheap troop option needed to unlock higher command points. You will absolutely need every command point you can generate to make the army work. I used the Death Visions of Sanguinius to make the TH/SS Capt DC so started the game with 8/9 command points. In Turn 1 I used Descent of Angels (6/9), and Honour the Chapter to fight twice with the DC (3/9). I also interrupted in the combat phase to try and put some wounds on the Demon Prince before he swung on the DC (1/9). I used my last command point for Upon Wings of Fire to get my last assault squad where I needed them to be. I was completely out of command points by the end of Turn 3 and never used one for a re-roll. The Veritas Vitae could have helped to mitigate this but I completely forgot to use it all game; I need to get better at remembering. Going forward the only change I see to my list is trading out my Sang Priest for a Lieutenant with JP and power axe which I am in the process of painting up. I would honestly love to hear from you guys: What do you think? Are there any glaring errors or ways I could have done things differently for this battle? Is there anything in my list you would change now that the codex is here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Despite your detailed batrep, it's tough to see how the game played out, and if there are any different decisions I would have personally affected. That being said, I'm average, at best, a 40k player. How many points was the game? I'm of the opinion that Magnus (and Mortarion) are both broken, and particularly so in any game under 2,000 points, so my solution is not to play against them in friendly games, and to just avoid the tourney scene. I realize that's a rant, not a solution, and does not in any way help you, but I just don't see a particularly good answer to the daemon primarchs for Space Marines since we really can't drown them in bodies. If you want to do an imperial soup list, I'm sure there are more ways to stop them, of course, but with a fluffy mono-chapter list I just don't see it. Did Magnus use the Spell that gives him +1 to invuln saves? Because that's 78% post-wound mitigation (that's AFTER rolling to hit and wound) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 so...you have...8 missile launchers (9 with cherub) and 4 lascannons (5 with cherub). That's a crapload of anti-tank! You really think you need 3 more meltaguns?? In a world where people run 3 Knights, or Magnus with two giant Keeper of Secrets, yes. Yes I do. What is wrong with Knight armies sir! I love Imperial Knights and plan to have a Knight army after I get a few other factions to support them. The CA even gave them a warlord trait and an amazing stratagem. So happy right now! I thought they were going to be relegated to being extra units in other codices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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