Codex comparisons

[Ichar]

How do you warriors of Titan feel about the GK Codex since the release of several other armies books? Also, is anyone else using the AM book for Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (scions) and if so how is that working out for you?

[Gentlemanloser]

We had a quick rushed book. With just the most basic of changes from the index.

 

With a lot of copy pasta.

 

As later codexes are coming out, GW are getting better at 8th.

 

Just look at how Eldar are having multiple little buffs combined together in thier sneak peeks.

 

All we can hope for is being addressed in Chapter Approved at xmas...

[skarn]

I'm pretty happy with gk. There isn't anything that a few points adjustments couldn't fix. The gk heavy weapons being pretty lackluster is probably the main thing.

[swordofmandulis]

I've had a decent win ratio at the local gaming hall, played a number of different armies and game types and the Knights have held up well, my opinion is that in a casual, fluffy, balanced style army type of gaming then GK are plenty good. That's the gaming I'm interested in and not facing tournament winning spam/cheese etc. My main comparison is my blood angels army which is frankly terrible right now unless you want a worse version of regular marines.

[Ichar]

Thanks for the replies all!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I haven't lost a game in 8th since my first (where I got taught the value of denying the enemy alpha). 

 

GK are a very solid book. We don't get a lot of tricks compared to other armies, but the stuff we do well at, we crush face. 

 

Our psychic phase is very good, and on the counter we have practically infinite denies against most armies. To put it in context, you never see Librarians anymore. 

 

Current tentative rankings for 8th (thus far, and always subject to change)

 

Tier 1:

- Guard (they're Number 1 at the moment)

- Marines

- Death Guard

- Grey Knights

- Ad Mech (despite all the salt, people just need to get good, there are some disgusting combos in there)

 

Tier 2:

- Chaos (its good but not good enough IMO)

- Index prison (ie everyone else)

[Gentlemanloser]

You just watch as all the newer codexes go straight to the top of the list.

 

And by the end of the first whole codex release we're bottom 3/4.

 

It's like Dark Angels back in 5th. Or was it 4th. Where they got the first codex in the new design of no armoury page.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Seizeman]

Right now the top codices are imperial guard and chaos (specially if you play forgeworld). Guilliman makes marines overpowered buy without him they are fair. Imperial armies have the advantage of being able to mix stuff and add Celestine and telepaths and all that overpowered stuff.

 

The rest of the armies with a codex are just fine and pretty well balanced.

[Ichar]

After reading the army books released so far, it just feels like the GK book did not get much attention. Few if any point adjustments, special/heavy weapons for troops need some attention, it just felt very rushed. I realize it is a single “faction”, but I feel it could have been better.

 

I feel the book would have been MUCH better if a few of these things had been included : GK received the “Ordo Malleus” keyword, if Psychic Onslaught and Psybolt Ammo had been one CP or a purchased upgrade, if Purifiers cost less or had two attacks and/or a 6” purifying flame, if terminators were a bit cheaper, and there had been an entry for Inquisitorial Stormtroopers or something to bulk the army out a bit. It just seems way too hard to get CP with our army being so expensive points wise.

 

I appreciate all of the replies. I really just wanted to see if anyone else felt like I did about the current state of GK. It is and has been my favorite army, I just want them to be competitive against more than just daemons. Even though they specialize against them, that doesn’t mean they should be much weaker against everything else (or does it?)

 

Several of the above answers tell me that I probably need more practice in 8th with the army. I just wish we weren’t back to a few units being awesome and the rest sitting on a shelf. We have so few units in the first place, even with Forgeworld, I would like them all to be effective enough to warrant fielding them.

 

Thanks again for all of the thoughts!

[Seizeman]

Well, you have to consider they were the second codex to be released, probably printed even before the indexes came out, so there wasn't much time to correct stuff, specially when grey knights are a minor army and probably were less tested than more important armies.

 

Even then, they are pretty competitive. Granted, 80% of our codex is unplayable, but the other 20% is at least as competitive as most other armies so far (except the OP ones like astra militarum/imperium, chaos and Guilliman).

 

The problem right know is that there is too much stuff in forgeworld and the indexes that was not tested at all and are ridiculously unbalanced, and of course almost all of them are either chaos or imperium. 

 

Everything can be fixed (except FW) with the codex releases and points adjustments, so let's hope they do a decent job with chapter approved. They already said they aren't going to fix FW, so every tournament should just ban FW.

[Gentlemanloser]

Oh my god! We so should have had the ordo malleus keyword!

 

/seconded

 

Seize those damn fw chaos contemptors. Mortal wounds on to hit. Shoot twice if you don't move.

 

Ugh.

 

What's the most broken fw stuff for you?

[Seizeman]

Malefic lords, obviously. A psyker with regular smite that knows 3 powers and has 4++, that becomes a demon prince if he suffer a perils, for 30 points. People should get fired for this kind of stuff.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Chaos without Forge World is definitely Tier 2 though. I've yet to play against the FW cancer stuff (Hellforged Contemptors, Maelific Lords etc). But I imagine it will get FAQ'd at some point. Maybe made Renegades only?

 

I think GK are fine as is. Purifiers being so situational and Terminators being unplayable sucks, but I'm happy with the rest of our book for the most part. Bear in mind that regular Marine Dreads, Land Raiders and so on are rarely seen. Most of the Marine armies I've seen are Primaris entirely or Primaris heavy at least. Nobody is taking the old vehicle staples, maybe Preds but that's kinda it. So we shouldn't feel too bad about our 'normal' Marine stuff getting shafted, regular Marines have the same issues. They're all taking Redemptors and Repulsors. 

 

We'll see how the next few releases shake things up. Someone has to knock Guard off their parking lot + Conscript wall game, its boring and stupid to play against. I don't think Eldar will do it (they've never been good at infantry clearing, their niche was always wrecking elite lists like Marines), maybe Nids or Orks. Tau are too far off to be sure of anything, other than their Index is a travesty. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Conscripts are dead.

 

Commisars kill a dude to give a reroll to the moral test.

 

And the bring the next wave strat is now a reinforcement.

 

You can still build your entire army around this though. Commisar Lord (if he's your warlord with trait) still auto pass the second moral test. At a cost of d3 dead.

[Constantine Valdor]

So far, I've been impressed by Guard's gunline, which was always the issue with them: GETTING to the big tanks.

Death Guard is obnoxious to chew through, and any smart player will avoid taking Daemons. The Deathshroud Termies are scary good.

 

We don't really have a ton of players in my area, but the one that I've been having trouble with is Tyranids, surprisingly enough. The Malanthrope with Exocrines and Hive Guard are hard to hurt with ranged, so I want to get there with melee, but the wall of Genestealers and the Broodlord make it difficult to get to them. Of course, he has some chaff units surrounding them which prevents me from deep striking. The only thing I can think to do is get a Stormraven and drop some troops, since Gate / Deep Strike are basically off the table. Vortex has been very helpful, and I've taken a liking to Purgators against him, but I was wondering if any of you had the same problems.

[Gentlemanloser]

Wait till you face trigons dsing 30 devilgaunts.

 

90 S4 shots at 18" range!

 

Exocrines are beastly.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Constantine Valdor]

Oh yeah, he's done that to me before. Not fun. What's more terrifying is them drop-podding a Swarmlord with a Trigon of Genestealers. My Paladins were very, very sad.

[Gentlemanloser]

Don't need the trigon for that!

 

Both swarmy and stealers start on board. Move + Advance. Swarmy then makes the stealers move + advance again in the shooting phase.

 

Then they charge.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Capt. Mytre]

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Edited October 29, 2017 by Capt. Mytre

[the jeske]

nah LoD is way worse the GK, you  could also try to play csm with actual csm in it and no FW, and it would work way worse. Tyranid cultists without detachments of IG and tyranids are also kind of unfun to play. Plus we also have the gem of 8th rules writing master pices the tau aka codex Tau Commander.

 

GK are boring though. They are an improvment over the past [the codex with 2-3 models], but for a game reset one kind of a does expect something more, I do give you that.

Puris, terminators and all the rest of the GK stuff should have had some characterful rules. Even those wouldn't make the units top tier. Some anti psyker ability there, a +1A on those , weapons costed in a way that you actualy want to take heavy weapons [like lets say build in to the unit cost with a discount of some sorts] and more stuff would see tables. At worse in casual games, and at best maybe even sneak in to some purist event list.

[Beams]

I dunno, I really like this editions Grey Knights. They really do benefit from an allied guard detachment (opens up the use of all those fun strategems), but a single GMDK is a ton of fun, Interceptors are fun, they bounce around the board and hound opponents, strike.squads are good at everything (except taking bullets) and allow you to play super. aggressive, and you can throw out awesome.psychic stuff without having too worry.too much about getting mind blasted (Librarians +2 is Abaurd)

 

And they have access to stormravens, which let you bring a gunship which is pretty cool.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Beams

[Bartali]

nah LoD is way worse the GK, you  could also try to play csm with actual csm in it and no FW, and it would work way worse. Tyranid cultists without detachments of IG and tyranids are also kind of unfun to play. Plus we also have the gem of 8th rules writing master pices the tau aka codex Tau Commander.

 

GK are boring though. They are an improvment over the past [the codex with 2-3 models], but for a game reset one kind of a does expect something more, I do give you that.

Puris, terminators and all the rest of the GK stuff should have had some characterful rules. Even those wouldn't make the units top tier. Some anti psyker ability there, a +1A on those , weapons costed in a way that you actualy want to take heavy weapons [like lets say build in to the unit cost with a discount of some sorts] and more stuff would see tables. At worse in casual games, and at best maybe even sneak in to some purist event list.

 

I haven't played 8th with GK yet, so take the following with a pinch of salt

 

It still feels as though most of the codex is junk, which is disappointing when GW promised so much with this edition.

I can see a list with Strikes/Interceptors, Razorbacks, GMNDK(s), a Stormraven ? That's about it ?

No GK special weapons as they're all junk ?

Edited October 26, 2017 by Bartali

[Gentlemanloser]

And Doomglaives, Paladin and Apothecaries. But yup. That about sums us up.

 

GW should have gone back to squad specific psychic powers.

[Adeptus]

It all depends on your perspective. As free upgrades in PL games, the GK special weapons are pretty good. As pointed upgrades in Points games, I'd expect them to get a tweak in this generals compendium type thing people keep talking about.

 

It's important to note that there's nothing *junk* in our list. There's some things that are probably better than they should be, and some things that are pretty well balanced, and some things that aren't hyper efficient, but nothing in our codex is really bad. Except maybe Crowe. And Techmarines.

[Seizeman]

Of course there is junk in our codex, a ton of it. Most of our codex is unplayable garbage, and I don't mean "not competitive" or "below average", I mean absolute crap to a level where they are an insult to anyone that bough the codex. 

 

Terminators, almost all of the HQ, purifiers, heavy weapons, NDKs and Land raiders should not ever be considered in any list, and stuff like Dreadnoughts, Paladins, interceptors are pretty bad, although not as much as the other choices. Basically only 20% of the codex, that has few units to begin with, is really playable. What's left is pretty decent, and at least some unit of every type (power armor, terminator armor, NDK, transport) is playable, so army composition is relatively diverse.

 

Luckily, everything (except for stratagems) can be fixed with a point reduction, so let's wait for december. So far they are doing a decent job balancing the armies (considering not all codex have been released yet).