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Macro Weaponry


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#1
Jolemai

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What are your thoughts on Macro weaponry and do you houserule them at all in your games?

Personally I find the idea necessary as weapons that large need a type with their own rules. However, doing double damage against <Titanic> units is often too much - when a Warhound with the right weapon choice has the potential to instagib anything up to a Phantom on T1 then it simply doesn't scale well enough.

The question is how to fix it (other than sorting out the Eldar shields or course, but that a gripe for another day)

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#2
Cryptix

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Macro will never come up in 99% of normal games (it requires both sides have a titan) and is pretty much designed for those weird apocalypse games where people pretend they're playing Adeptus Titanicus except full sized. If it helps you sleep at night, think of it like a tank destroyer.


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#3
GawFang

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No need for double the damage. Most of the titan weapons do so much damage to a single target that its not needed. However some of the larger blast type weapons should have splash damage like the deathstrike.


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#4
Lord Raven 19

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Not sure, my opponents usually get volcano cannoned too quickly
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#5
Diocletian Coros

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I'm currently working on my personal interpretation of rules for titans and I'll rework the macro rule / the weapons in itself. Personally I think the weapons should obliterate any smaller target (i.e. Land Raiders, Leman Russ, Rhino, etc.) with ease and inflict heavy damage on larger targets (i.e. Knights, Riptides, Greater Daemons, Titans, etc.) like they did in the past. It is really infuriating for me, that I can point my Double-barreled Turbo Laser at a Kytan daemon machine and do over 50 wounds in one go (yep, that happened) and shoot a Land Raider and only take of a couple of wounds.

 

The Titans are not designed for competitive games on tournaments and that is fine. But the current rules don't make them fun to take in apoc games. Especially the Warhound is waaaaay to expensive in its current form. And way to easy to kill.

 

In my rules the titans will be a bit tougher (i.e. some special rules around small arms fire can't do any damage, void shields being more effective, etc.) and the macro weapon keyword will work differently. Maybe I change the rule to make double damage on non-titanic targets and "just" normal damage on titanic targets. Maybe I come up with something else. Currently I have about 1 page written in Word about the current problems and will work my way up from there. Either way the Titans will keep most of the rules and get cheaper or they'll gain some more rules and stay expensive (points-wise).

 

 

(Yes, I've written FW multiple emails to the feedback account about the current rules of the Titans.)



#6
Frostglaive

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I never really understood that about Macro weapons. Double damage against Titanic... but regular against anything else? I always thought that should've been reversed. Infantry, tanks, etc., they should be getting utterly obliterated by Macro weaponry (granted, they can do just that if you roll well enough, but still...). And things that are Titanic, shouldn't they essentially be built to at least somewhat withstand that kind of firepower? Not just in their Void shields, but their armor, their superstructure, etc.

 

Titans' rules in general just baffle me to be honest. For 2000pts, I can have a Warhound Titan... or at less than half that cost, I can bring in a Knight Porphyrion. Not as much destructive firepower as a Titan's macro weapons, but it's still quite a lot of power. And access to Knight stratagems. And almost as durable as a Warhound (5 less wounds and a 5++ invul instead of a 4+ degrading void shield. But I do believe it has 2+ armour? I could be wrong on that though). 

 

I think Titans in general need a rules overhaul, not just Macro weaponry.


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#7
Diocletian Coros

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I never really understood that about Macro weapons. Double damage against Titanic... but regular against anything else? I always thought that should've been reversed. Infantry, tanks, etc., they should be getting utterly obliterated by Macro weaponry (granted, they can do just that if you roll well enough, but still...). And things that are Titanic, shouldn't they essentially be built to at least somewhat withstand that kind of firepower? Not just in their Void shields, but their armor, their superstructure, etc.

 

Titans' rules in general just baffle me to be honest. For 2000pts, I can have a Warhound Titan... or at less than half that cost, I can bring in a Knight Porphyrion. Not as much destructive firepower as a Titan's macro weapons, but it's still quite a lot of power. And access to Knight stratagems. And almost as durable as a Warhound (5 less wounds and a 5++ invul instead of a 4+ degrading void shield. But I do believe it has 2+ armour? I could be wrong on that though). 

 

I think Titans in general need a rules overhaul, not just Macro weaponry.

 

Finally, someone like minded! 

 

I don't like the Warhound rules. Apart from being totally over-costed with 2.000 points, he doesn't feels like a Titan. He dies to easily (11 wounds above a Knight) with "just" toughness 9. The 3+ save and the degrading void shield is just not really nice. Either he has to be a lot cheaper (1.000-ish) and/or he has to have some special rules (weapons below strength 6 have no AP value or half damage from non-heavy weapons or ...). But most of those rules tend to be more complex and break the streamlining aspect of 8th edition. 

 

All in all I have the feeling, that GW/FW made the low level effort and just said: "Let's make them really expensive, so they don't matter in the normal balancing of the game." Now we can use them in our private, fun APOC games, but no tournament has to make up rules regarding the use of Titans. And I mean: They could just make up some decent rules and add a Designers Comment: "Titans are not made for the use in tournament play." and done.



#8
CommodusXIII

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I have to agree with you two. At my last Apocalypse game my Warlord dealt 72 Damage to an enemy Warlord in a single shot thanks to Macro, but struggled (relatively speaking) to kill anything else the rest of the game. That wasn't fun at all for the other Princeps, and rather frustrating for me.
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Personally, I think they are coming. Like a massive electrified thousand ton ball of barbed wire with hundreds of trapped and frustrated gamers embedded in it, rolling down a hill. "That, Bilbo Baggins, is the sound of inevitability."
 
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#9
Diocletian Coros

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I have to agree with you two. At my last Apocalypse game my Warlord dealt 72 Damage to an enemy Warlord in a single shot thanks to Macro, but struggled (relatively speaking) to kill anything else the rest of the game. That wasn't fun at all for the other Princeps, and rather frustrating for me.

 

The rules for those weapons are just rather stupid. It is more fun for everybody if the big units like titans stay in the game for maybe more than one turn and don't blow up from one shot. But GW/FW thought: "Kill other titans with one shot and struggle to kill anything else on the table. That is fun." Sorry GW/FW - it is not. It is supposed to be the other way around.

 

In this instance I have to say: I miss the old templates from the titans. It was just very satisfying to get the old pie plate out and wipe out whole sectors of the battlefield. Now you make complete overkills on one unit and that is it. Why is the Sunfury the only weapon with the ability to affect other units in close vicinity? What about the warhound plasma gun that used to shoot 7"/10" templates? Now it just hits one tank and nothing else? Stupid... What about the Mori Quake cannon? I mean: It has QUAKE in its name because it causes - you guessed it - some form of earth quakes. If you shoot at a Chaos Land Raider in the midst of a horde of Marines and Deamons only the Land Raider is affected? WHY?






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