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2000pt optimized grey knights - best list possible?


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#1
Time of madness

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Looking for some help in creating the most optimized all comers grey knights list.

GMNDK. Psilencer, psycannon, teleporter, sword
= 285
GMNDK. Psilencer, psycannon, teleporter, sword
= 285
Grand Master Voldus
=190

5 Strike squad
- Bolters, falchions
= 105

5 Strike squad
- Bolters, falchions
= 105

5 Strike squad
- Bolters, falchions
= 105

4 Paladin squad
- Bolters, falchions
= 220

Apothecary
- 90pts

Stormraven
- 2 hurricane bolters
- assault cannons
- 2 stormstike missiles
- typhoon missile launcher
= 307

Razorback
- Bolter, assault cannon
= 102

Razorback.
- Bolter, assault cannon
= 102

RAZORBACK
- Bolter and assault cannon
= 102

Total points = 1998
6 CP

3 strike squads each start In a Razorback. The paladins and apothecary start in storm raven. Gmndks teleport and voldus I do different things with.

Can anyone help making this list better? I feel like it’s at the point where it can’t be made much better.

Thanks.

#2
MayorDaley

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That looks to be "The List".

Melta on the 'Raven is the only difference between yer list and mine.

Cheers

Sucess isn't permanent, and failure isn't fatal.
-Da Coach- 

 


#3
Muaddib

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IMO, in short : you drop Voldus, the pallies and the apo and take 3*5 interceptors and a brochamp. And maybe replace the three razorbacks with a second stormraven. 'Cause yours is going to die turn one
If you wanna keep these guys you need two hammers on apo and Paragon. That's what make them useful anyway.

#4
Seizeman

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There's no point in playing apothecaries without a hammer, and there's no point in playing paladins when you can play more apothecaries. In your list, instead of the 4 paladins you should just play 2 apothecaries with hammer and pay for a hammer for the third apothecary, which is infinitely more powerful  while also giving you an extra CP thanks to the extra elite slot.

 

I've also found the storm raven to be too unflexible and risky. More than 800 points in a single unit with no strategic options is too much for 2000 points games, so I prefer sticking to razorbacks and just deepstrike the rest of the army. 

 

About the last 300 points of the list, I'm not totally sure about. It's between Voldus + 4th apothecary or Draigo + 2 extra strike squad models. With 3 apothecaries you don't really need the extra powers from voldus, so I'm inclined to pick Draigo. You gain a lot from his aura with 4 razorbacks and 4 strike squads, making his total damage output pretty similar or better than Voldus + apothecary, and he's also more durable (I've found Voldus to be really squishy).

 

By the way, interceptors and brotherhood champions are far from optimal and not a good choice.

 

So, for me, the optimal list would be this:

 

2 GMNDKs. Sword, psilencer, psycannon, teleporter.

Draigo

4 Strikes squads (2x5, 2x6)

4 apothecaries with hammers

4 Razorbacks. Assault cannons, bolters, 1 Hunterkiller missile.

 

2000 points, 7 CP. Eight units on the table, seven deepstriking.



#5
Muaddib

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By the way, interceptors and brotherhood champions are far from optimal and not a good choice.

 

BroChamp ain't that good but the cheapest HQ, so it can be useful.

And sorry dude, but interceptors are beasts ^^. The 12'' move across anything on the board is really powerful. And being able to start on the table and still join the alpha strike is really good too...



#6
Seizeman

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The 12" movement is not that relevant when they are being transported (and they must be transported), compared to the 20% cost increase over strikes. Also you need 3 strike squads for the battalion detachment. The only situation in which they are an option is when you have spare points and there's no opportunity cost in taking them.

 

In fact, I would modify my previous list by upgrading the 4th strike squad unit to interceptors instead of adding the 6th model, as it is pretty much free to do so and it adds some tactical versatility.

 

The brochamp is the cheapest HQ, but you want to take HQs anyway because of GMNDK and Draigo, and it's not worth taking him just to unlock a single CP for a detachment (assuming you have the points for an extra detachment, which is usually not the case).



#7
Ultramarcos

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on the Razorbacks with Assault cannons...I'm running Las Cannons due to the lack of heavy fire on our list...do you think that by using assaults this issue doesn't surface or simply distant doesn't matter and lets get more firepower??


The good friend is not who separates your fight....is the one who jumps in with the two feet in your adversary's chest.

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Eu quero ver uma 13th compania feita pelo AJ!!

#8
Danarc

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There's no point in playing apothecaries without a hammer, and there's no point in playing paladins when you can play more apothecaries. In your list, instead of the 4 paladins you should just play 2 apothecaries with hammer and pay for a hammer for the third apothecary, which is infinitely more powerful  while also giving you an extra CP thanks to the extra elite slot.

 

I've also found the storm raven to be too unflexible and risky. More than 800 points in a single unit with no strategic options is too much for 2000 points games, so I prefer sticking to razorbacks and just deepstrike the rest of the army. 

 

About the last 300 points of the list, I'm not totally sure about. It's between Voldus + 4th apothecary or Draigo + 2 extra strike squad models. With 3 apothecaries you don't really need the extra powers from voldus, so I'm inclined to pick Draigo. You gain a lot from his aura with 4 razorbacks and 4 strike squads, making his total damage output pretty similar or better than Voldus + apothecary, and he's also more durable (I've found Voldus to be really squishy).

 

By the way, interceptors and brotherhood champions are far from optimal and not a good choice.

 

So, for me, the optimal list would be this:

 

2 GMNDKs. Sword, psilencer, psycannon, teleporter.

Draigo

4 Strikes squads (2x5, 2x6)

4 apothecaries with hammers

4 Razorbacks. Assault cannons, bolters, 1 Hunterkiller missile.

 

2000 points, 7 CP. Eight units on the table, seven deepstriking.

I see an absolutely absence of anti tank. This list can't win against too much armies.



#9
Soder

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Guys I think this post was actually made before the Chapter Approved release and the increase in points costs to assault cannons. Just pay the extra 6pts and take lascannons now is what I would suggest

#10
Muaddib

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The 12" movement is not that relevant when they are being transported (and they must be transported), compared to the 20% cost increase over strikes. Also you need 3 strike squads for the battalion detachment. The only situation in which they are an option is when you have spare points and there's no opportunity cost in taking them.

In fact, I would modify my previous list by upgrading the 4th strike squad unit to interceptors instead of adding the 6th model, as it is pretty much free to do so and it adds some tactical versatility.

The brochamp is the cheapest HQ, but you want to take HQs anyway because of GMNDK and Draigo, and it's not worth taking him just to unlock a single CP for a detachment (assuming you have the points for an extra detachment, which is usually not the case).

The 12" movement is totally relevant in many situations :
- when you miss your charge t1 and have to catch up with your prey t2. Like, almost every time;
- when you want get through an enemy unit to catch an other;
- when you charge an enemy unit in the second floor of a ruin without +3" to your charge distance;
- when you need some dakka in alpha strike and still keep units on the board...
- and every time you need to get few inches further than 6" to grab an objective or reach cover;

Seriously, I don't play tournament but I face some strong lists (DA+Cadians, Blood Angels and tyty shenanigans,...); and with a pretty good victory ratio. And I play with only vanguard and outrider Detachement and only one strike squad. Strat' are good but not that good (I usually use 2 Heed the P and one reroll or only in death). I usually end up with big guys wrecking enemy units and surviving interceptors using their 12" move and gate to stay hidden and grab objective. And it's quite efficient.

I'm not arguing for the sake of it, I really have months of experience using 3*5 interceptors each game without ever being disappointed... Give it a try, you'll see :)

I won't make a case for the BroChamp though, he's here for fun. Most of the time.

Edited by Muaddib, 22 February 2018 - 09:46 AM.





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